Originally Posted by sandman82

In the mean time if you are looking for the best prohormone out there I would recommend that you use havoc. I have used it many of times and got some amazing results. I am stacking the Havoc with the 1-ad right now and starting to see some great results

Havoc is a designer steroid, not a pro-hormone.

Originally Posted by SpargelJanusz

Havoc is a designer steroid, not a pro-hormone.

reminds me of a time i got in an argument with someone about this. they basically tried saying a pro hormone wasn't a steroid. i know they are 2 seperate things but they end up the same. and i think people use the word pro hormone so it doesn't get switched to the steroid section... and the only thing they about it is what the companies description of it says.

Originally Posted by jsp0785

if anything he should take something more mild like 3-ad or perhaps epistane, it's been shown by most on the boards to have less sides than havoc.

Epistane showing less sides than havoc? You do realize that EPistane is a havoc clone, right?

Originally Posted by jsp0785

reminds me of a time i got in an argument with someone about this. they basically tried saying a pro hormone wasn't a steroid. i know they are 2 seperate things but they end up the same. and i think people use the word pro hormone so it doesn't get switched to the steroid section... and the only thing they about it is what the companies description of it says.

Prohormones (i.e. during the 97-99 era) did basically LITTLE for me PERIOD...

Where as, things people called prohormones such as M1t/pp/sd/hv/epi, but were not as they were basically STEROIDS did wonders (i only too pp and m1t)

I never met a prohormone which I held a long conversation with; however, me and the designers have shared bed sides on a few occasions back in 04-06.

Oh, as far as the guy goes that lost 70lbs in a year. I am guessing it was more like 14 months, maybe?

Anywho, I would commend him for doing that and suggest to continue doing what you've done to get what you've gotten. It seems to me that you're already on a great track ...

I would also suggest that you might want to do some researching, googling (<is that a word, lol??) and check here and other boards to get an idea of what you want to try. Research Havoc, epi and some searches for SERMs, ancillaries or the new alternatives, and you may find yourself a nice little niche.

EDIT: If your head isn't an oddball shape, just go baldy. Nice physique, and a baldy, goes well with the public here in the south. But that's between you and your wife, lol.

Suncloud, are you talking about Applied nutra's IGF-2?

Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF

Suncloud, are you talking about Applied nutra's IGF-2?

yep. heard great feedback from it, but i hear it takes awhile to build in the system.

Originally Posted by suncloud

yep. heard great feedback from it, but i hear it takes awhile to build in the system.

The new version has 75% not 25% mucuna p., and also added bioperine But back to 1-AD, a bulk run would be nice.

Originally Posted by suncloud

yep. heard great feedback from it, but i hear it takes awhile to build in the system.

Wait until you run it for about for about 6 str8 weeks, ohhhhhhh my.

I still have yet to get the new formula, but I am sure going to get a hold of it soon...

Originally Posted by dsade

Epistane showing less sides than havoc? You do realize that EPistane is a havoc clone, right?

yes i do know they are the same thing but from many posts i've read people see less sides while taking epistane. and i've also seen that someone posted lab results before on both havoc and epistane and it was found that havoc had more of the actual active ingredient in it than epistane did. the epistane did not contain the amount stated on the bottle and wasn't as pure. hence the possibility of less side effects.

I started taking 9 caps of 1-ad/Havoc. I am feeling a little lethargic and holding alot of water now. My appetite is through the roof still. My strength is still going up and I am throwing up some weight that I could only do 1 or 2 reps no I am able to 8 to 10 with that weight and increasing each week with 5 to 10 lbs more depending on the movement. I added a few more carbs to my diet but still keeping my protein high 50/30/20.

Originally Posted by jsp0785

yes i do know they are the same thing but from many posts i've read people see less sides while taking epistane. and i've also seen that someone posted lab results before on both havoc and epistane and it was found that havoc had more of the actual active ingredient in it than epistane did. the epistane did not contain the amount stated on the bottle and wasn't as pure. hence the possibility of less side effects.

Gotcha...just making sure to not confuse anyone else.

Originally Posted by sandman82

I started taking 9 caps of 1-ad/Havoc. I am feeling a little lethargic and holding alot of water now. My appetite is through the roof still. My strength is still going up and I am throwing up some weight that I could only do 1 or 2 reps no I am able to 8 to 10 with that weight and increasing each week with 5 to 10 lbs more depending on the movement. I added a few more carbs to my diet but still keeping my protein high 50/30/20.

Your saying that your gulping down 18pills of that a day???

R u serious??????

Okay. I appreciate all your responses.I have decided to stay away from the designer steroids/prohormones. Instead I will stack IGF-2 with activate xtreme,neovar,recreate and osteo-sport.My goal is to get my bodyfat below 10% and if I am lucky I will not lose any muscle in the process.I am about 200 pounds and around 17 % bodyfat so my goal would be to lose about 15 pounds - 20 pounds of bodyfat. I will let you know how well I do. My supplements are on their way.....

Originally Posted by unicorn

Okay. I appreciate all your responses.I have decided to stay away from the designer steroids/prohormones. Instead I will stack IGF-2 with activate xtreme,neovar,recreate and osteo-sport.My goal is to get my bodyfat below 10% and if I am lucky I will not lose any muscle in the process.I am about 200 pounds and around 17 % bodyfat so my goal would be to lose about 15 pounds - 20 pounds of bodyfat. I will let you know how well I do. My supplements are on their way.....

should probably get some BCAA's if ur cutting and going into calorie defecit. most popular seem to be extend or purple wraath

unicorn, it's good to hear you stay off the hormonal stuff.

Sub out the activate for pure nettle root, better on the wallet.

I am on week 4 now and taking 9 caps a day still. My bench and squats are still going up everyweek and my body especially my back feels harder and I am really starting to see some differences in size. I have got some increased acne and sex drive is down now. I have added 12lbs in 4 weeks. I am also starting to feel extremely sore after workouts but I started to add some more glutamine and drinking more xtend throught the day..

sandman, are you taking the 1AD together with Epi?

Is it the new 1AD or the old by ErgoPharm?