SokViChet's - Supplement/Training Log
- 08-19-2008, 06:45 PM
SokViChet's - Supplement/Training Log
I've been saying for a while now that I'd start my own log, and quit hijacking yours. It's time, so let's get started.
It would do you best to have none. I still consider myself a new lifter, even though I have experienced much success so far. Until now, I've spent the majority of my time on AM researching supplementation, nutrition, and training as well as sharing my experiences in other's logs and reviews. Format will be fairly open. Posting training, supplementation as well as product reviews, and pleas for help/input on occaision.
You can find my best write-up on how I got to where I am now, right here in the epic USPLabs AP 365 contest thread.
My supplementation philosophy is problem-oriented. I identify a challenge or problem, then supplement my diet in an attempt to overcome that specific problem. I am as often a non-responder to supplementation as I am a responder. I have never used prohormones or steroids, and never will.
History - currently using or have used (just a dump, timing and dosing will be listed as I log):
Controlled Labs: Purple Wraath, REDuction (next week!!), Blue Gene (soon!!)
USPLabs: Recreate (finishing up 3rd bottle, and cycling off for a bit), Anabolic Pump, PowerFull
Core: Zap (just started last week)
Nimbus Nutrition: Poseidon, Blast (occaisionally)
Primordial Performance: EndoAmp (temp)
Universal: Animal Pak vitamins
Avant Research: Napalm
Palo Alto Labs: Reset-AD (temporary, fixed my adrenals!!!!)
Bulk: Beta-Alanine, L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, GABA, 5HTP, Choline, Piracetam, Sesamin, Fish Oil, Huperzine-A, Rhodiola Rosea
* there are some I've missed, but you get the idea...
[will post when I take them at home. if i can find them, i have comparison measurements from 4-5 months ago!!!]
Current Picture (taken last week):
** awww, screwed up the title. too bad you cant edit it.
- 08-19-2008, 06:45 PM
My workouts are not as structured or premeditated as many of the more experienced guys here are. I follow a sort of intuitive feel-it-out style I made up during my first real bulk in college. I have always had a hard time following a written workout plan, but that is not to say I wouldn't benefit from one...
Arms / Shoulders
I've added in reverse curl and hammer curl movements lately to stimulate the Brachialis and Brachioradialis, and because my forearms haven't been keeping up with arm growth. The huge volume listed below is something that I would never have imagined before I started supplementing. Endurance was my first real challenge that was solved by a large portion of my current supplementation. I might go ahead and throw an arm workout at the the end of my Chest/Back day, as they haven't been keeping up with those larger groups and because I'm recovering extremely quickly nowadays.
Please do provide any input you may have! I am basically just stumbling along on a combination of what worked for me, and what I've read. I have no notion that my way is the best way, and in fact the purpose of this log is to figure out what I could be doing better! Thanks in advance.
The order executed was not as listed below. I move back and forth between my target muscle groups to compress my workout into a shorter time frame while allowing enough rest to that muscle group. My split is set up to focus on antagonistic pairings so I may do this.
* Calves/Abs (sometimes do these on leg day depending on schedule)
5-min elliptical machine warmup.
(kept it low volume today, still a bit wary of an old injury i believe I've overcome)
Hammer Strength Iso-lateral shoulder press (weights listed as total): - 90x12, 110x10, 110x10
Dumbell lateral raises - 22.5x15, 20x5, 17.5x5, 15x5, 12.5x5, 10x4, 7x5 *full dropset, no pause
Standing easycurl bar - 60x12, 70x12, 75x10
Reverse barbell curls - 30x15, 40x12, 45x10, 20x20
Focus dumbbell curls - 25x10, 25x10
Machine Prone curls - 80x15, 90x12
Bodyweight dips - 20, 15, 10 *superset with close-grip bench
Close grip bench - 90x12, 100x10, 100x8
Rope cable pressdowns - 80x15, 90x12, 100x10 *superset with tricep pushups
Tricep pushups - til failure 12, 8, 5
Plate Shrugs - 45x12, 45x10, 50x8
Cooldown / Cardio:
No cooldown or cardio, as I had a meeting to make it to and ran out of time.
Two weeks ago I pushed my Beta-Alanine intake over 8g per day throughout the day. Today was a huge push in total volume, and I feel this was directly related to that BA increase.
08-19-2008, 06:46 PM
My supplementation has slowly grown quite complex over the past 5-6 months, and I have several items that are a temporary run to solve a specific problem (ex. Reset-AD and EndoAmp).
Today was a barely prepared day, in terms of food. Ended up slamming a protein bar and eating a Kashi frozen dinner, both of which I keep on hand for emergencies. I really need to get a handle on how many calories I'm taking in and what my maint cals are now. I had my diet dead on during my cut/recomp portion, but I slowly let that go as I leaned out. Now I'm focusing more on making sure I'm getting enough to eat for recovery and hypertophy. The mirror check is showing I'm not fattening up, and am starting to put the pounds back on (was down to 198 a few months ago).
2g Beta Alanine
1 scoop Poseidon
2 caps Recreate
25g Whey Isolate
Arrive at work
250mg Choline Bitartrate
250mg Inositol (came with the NOW Choline)
1 Anabolic Pump (30 min before meal)
6 eggs (2 yolks) scrambled in microwave with onions, bell pepper, tomatos, and mushrooms
1 handful of Almonds
2 peices of Whole Wheat honey/flax toast (44g carbs)
1 cap Reset-AD
2g Fish Oil
Preworkout (1.5 hours after breakfast)
1 scoop Ragnarok (caffeine-free)
1 scoop Poseidon
3 caps Core Zap
sip on BCAA/EAA mixture
55g Whey Isolate
2 scoops EndoAmp
1 Animal Pak
1 Anabolic Pump (30 min before meal)
Tuna Creations, Lemon Pepper (37g protein) - this is a life-saver on lazy cooking days
Brown Rice (~44g Carbs)
Large handful of pre-cut greens (spinach, romaine, basil, cilantro, cucumber)
Handfull of almonds
2g Fish Oil
Fat/Sugar free Yogurt
25g Whey blend
Zero Impact Bar (yeah, got hungry and very very busy at work. I rarely eat a protein bar, but keep them onhand in case)
This would usually be another whole meal.
2 caps Recreate
Kashi Chicken Flourentine
8 oz Boiled chicken breast
Black bean salsa (black beans, corn, bell pepper, cilantro, mushroom, tomato, green onion, lime juice)
Brown Rice (only 22g of carbs)
2g Fish Oil
45g Casein/Concentrate/Isolate blend
Craved something sweet hardcore, so ate some watermelon ><
Sipped on an additional 3 scoops of Xtend, 1 scoop Purple Wraath for the rest of the day
08-19-2008, 06:50 PM
08-20-2008, 01:02 AM
Today's food/supp intake posted. It's a bit convoluted atm, as I have meals and supps posted together, but that's how I manage it. They are timed in relation to meals and workouts. In the future, I'll find a nice medium in level of detail as that post above is kinda out of control.
There's a lot going on in there...
I usually have 6-8 small meals a day about 2-3 hours apart: Wakeup, Breakfast, Lunch, Snack, Snack, Dinner, Prebed
I've been cycling my carbs for a while with 100-125g for four days, followed by a 300-350g day. Today was a spike day, and I took in about 350g total, but I'm increasing carb intake on all workout days from here on out.
08-20-2008, 07:25 PM
I am in as well. Everything seems fairly well balanced. How do you find the poseidon dosed twice during the day?
08-20-2008, 08:33 PM
Thanks for joining guys! I've been feeling kinda inadequate about my logging skills after seeing some of the amazing stuff our AM guys are putting on the boards! I'm not gonna get all intimidated, and try to keep a non-boring log as my schedule will allow, lol. Lots to learn in both logging and diet/training, and am thankful for it. Thanks again!
Diet is feeling effortless now. I've amassed quite a bit of foods and ways to eat even when I havent had much time to prepare or cook. Gladly, I don't think I'll ever even be able to go back to my old habits at this point.
Breakfast: Boring ol' staple
6 eggs (2 yolks)
1 cup of oatmeal
Sesamin / Fish Oil
ALCAR, Poseidon, Tyrosine, Ragnarok, Recreate
Basil chicken vegetable stirfry (thai/khmai style)
Piracetam, choline, huperzine-a, etc
50g Whey isolate/casein blend
1 slice of whole wheat flax/honey toast
Sesamin / Fish oil
Coffee (craved coffee, I love the taste of fresh ground pressed coffee)
Recreate (that's the last of it! I'll be starting REDuction soon)
Piracetam, choline, huperzine-a, etc
Basil chicken stirfry (zomg its delicious, almost overate)
no rice, only carbs from veggies
Handfull of almonds
Sesamin / Fish oil
Poseidon (1 hour after dinner)
Whey casein/isolate blend
I ended up not being able to work out today due to some craziness in the office It was going to be legs, so I'll just handle that bizness tomorrow, and will have a chance to work out with the wifey.
08-20-2008, 09:05 PM
So you are basically bulkiing/lean bulking correct? Any idea what your total macro breakdown is? Is it going to remain consistent now that you are upping carbs on training days? Or will you keep them low on non training dayss?
So many questions, sorry lol.
08-24-2008, 10:18 AM
08-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Thank you! Haha, this weekend I got niacin-burnt again. I'll never get used to that, so I definitely increased my water intake immediately before and after Poseidon the next day!awesome, you should be noticing a greater affect really soon. It is good to be taking in that much water, as I noticed it lessens the niacin flush, but also helps to keep me fresher (only word I could use to describe the feeling)
Work has been killing me lately, and I've had to miss workouts. We have so much going on and wayyyy too many deadlines, I am afraid it will continue affect my training for the near future. Working late into the night and stress levels rising. I ended up pushing my leg workout several days, and just finally did one at 10PM. It was horrible. I felt so weak, I ended up dropping a full 100 pounds on my lying leg press (down to 500 from 600 pounds). Last week I felt strong and 350x20 as a warmup, then jump straight to 500, then 585 on a 10-12 range. This week, after my first set I knew I wouldnt be going heavy, instead I just bumped up the volume to 15-20 rep range... It might be time to take a break for a week but I'll decide after my next few workouts (been about 9 weeks since my last break). I add squats back in next week at low weights to test my back. I doubt I'll be able to keep it in, as an old back injury will likely flare up (don't worry, I'll take it easy). I've already added stiff legged deadlifts for hamstrings, and I'm holding up well.
On a side note, as I was struggling through my leg workout this week I had the pleasure of watching three manly-men bouncing huge stacks of plates off their sternums. It was quite scary to see their chests compress into that bench, but they were so rude to those around them (they literally laughed at a much smaller guy pressing in perfect form, and I f*cking HATE bullies), that I almost laughed when the largest of them got up rubbing his ribs where the last rep nearly cut him in half lol. Best of all was watching them hold at the top with locked arms deciding whether to try another rep while their spotter was preparing to save his a**. Why do the dumbest of them all get the best genetics? These guys were huge, but by watching their form you'd think they had never lifted before...
08-27-2008, 01:50 AM
I think I've finally found a way to explain the way I feel when I believe I'm nearing overtraining or a weakened CNS. Well, I first felt it on my last leg workout. It was sort of a sudden feeling of weakness and exhaustion starting at the beginning or middle of every set. I would feel relatively strong and pumped as I prepared for my first few reps, and then a wave of weakness and exhaustion, cold and shocking, would come over me and I'd struggle to complete lifts that should have been easy by now.
I thought it to be an off day, but I felt it again on my next chest/back workout... My diet, sleep, and supplementation haven't really changed lately, so I'm gonna pick up fresh next Monday or Tuesday fully rested.
Royd, I'll get my macro breakdowns posted up when I start back up next week. Lately I've been focusing on portion and timing. It's been about 6 weeks since I've counted macro totals.
08-27-2008, 02:11 AM
subbed - if I can't train might as well follow yours.
I like the setout - can sure tell you're an engineer!
only input I have is sub your shrugs for close-grip upright rows to work your traps (that's from my trainer who is a man-beast)
also I like to have a sportsbottle with a scoop of Poseidon/Swell by my bed - Im subject to multiple piss-trips (and sweat) during the night, so have a bit of sip each time - there's usually about half left by morning which I gun down -find I bounce out of bed a little easier.
08-27-2008, 11:27 AM
I have actually been alternating the shrugs with the upright rows over the last few weeks, but I think I'm dropping the shrugs for good now. I watch the guys who I respect in the gym for ideas (there aren't many, lol), and that was one I picked up a few weeks ago. I can really feel the isolation with these that I was missing from the shrugs. I'd also like to start some heavy farmers walks too.
That's a great idea with the Poseidon. I have a ridiculous struggle getting up every morning, and I'll try ANYTHING that will help me wake up. I feel like I weigh a thousand pounds when the alarm goes off, and I'm getting 7+ hours of sleep... Working on getting into bed earlier, but there's so much that needs doin'.
08-27-2008, 11:29 AM
I love the idea of the swell/poseidon during the night. I am a swell fanatic, so this could be an interesting way to relieve morning issues since I start getting up at 4:30am next week again
08-27-2008, 11:32 AM
08-27-2008, 11:42 AM
I used to love the 9am start when I was in the private sector, now if I want fasted cardio, 4:30 is the only time that works.
08-27-2008, 09:17 PM
I feel I wake 'cleaner' when the stims/swell start working into my system.
And swell IS the goods - I took advantage of those sale prices big time.
08-28-2008, 06:08 PM
REDuction notes: A week in.
I'm liking the REDuction so far. The AM dose is very gentle! I don't sweat, nor can I feel the thermogenic effects that I did on Recreate, but I do feel a light energy lift within 20 min of taking a dose. I like the gentleness of it, but sometimes I need a kick in the morning or I end up sleepwalking in.
The PM pills are AWESOME. I take them 30 min to an hour before I expect to be in bed, and it's gotten me to sleep every night so far. The best part, is the drowsiness I feel seems very natural, and manifests as heavy eyelids without any fuzzy-headedness.
BONUS: The wife mentioned I tasted like raspberries the other day. I use an unscented soap (darned sinus allergies!), which really accentuates how my diet affects my smell, etc. NICE :P
I've lost weight over the past week, inexplicably (201 from 206... might be a temporary fluxuation). I've been eating the same, drink 1-2 gallons of water a day, the only change I can think of has been the REDuction. I REEEEAAAALLLLYYY need to get a fricken bodyfat measurement going... Any suggestions on the best method? I have a Tanita bioelectric impedence weight scale, but I dont trust it at all. In the past, I've always just used tape to measure, but I'd like a more accurate reading. How do you feel about calipers?
08-29-2008, 05:24 PM
08-29-2008, 05:42 PM
09-08-2008, 11:26 AM
This log resumes this week. I'm pumped however, worried about my strength losses over the past two weeks.
I got a horrible stomach virus that lasted over a f'ing week. Lost over 5 pounds, which is a miracle, considering the ridiculously small amount of food I was able to keep down. Went through 3+ gallons of water a day, trying to stay hydrated through the vomiting, and managed to keep my vitamins down due to great timing. I tell ya, I'm screwed when I have children to bring some sickness home from school.
I've stopped the REDuction in anticipation of Phenadrine from APS. I've agreed to log my results on this while I finish up my last month of recomp before a clean bulk. I may have to start a parallel log for that, not sure yet.
Thanks for stopping by Volcom. I'm loving your log! We have a similar taste in food, and need to log some Khmai recipes we cook up. Just had my first real meal in a week: Lemongrass fish patties, village style :P Got the recipe and learned to make it while in my wife's father's village in Cambodia. They prepared it from fish they pulled right out of the Mekong (if you've seen the mekong, you'd think twice about eating it lol), herbs and lemongrass from the field, and cooked over an open fire.
09-10-2008, 12:13 PM
9/9/08 - First workout in two weeks, fully recovered from stomach issue.
Starting PRIME today at 2 caps per meal x 3 (recommended dosage of 6 per day). I got incredibly lucky and won four additional bottles, so I've been thinking about bumping to an additional dose per day for the first 3 weeks (8 caps total). What do you think?
I will be starting APS Phenadrine about a week after it arrives (APS has asked for a 3-4 week stim-free period), and wanted to comment about starting PRIME in the meantime. I really dislike schizophrenic sponsored logs, where the poster agrees to log a product but then continues to make large changes to their supplementation during the run. However as I volunteered to test Phenadrine, I made it clear that I would be doing just that with the addition of PRIME this week. I feel safe to continue the path of action having made that disclaimer upfront, and by being careful not to attribute results that are not clearly evident as a direct result from the product. With claims that Prime is a recomp agent as well, I'm hoping to see a nice finish in my final month of recomp before I start a clean bulk.
5-min elliptical warmup, focusing on the arm movement for a good shoulder lube.
Dumbbell bench presses
I keep my hands at a diagonal, facing each other in order to keep my elbows in. Old work-related shoulder injury taught me to keep them close whenever possible.
70x10 (started to feel familiar pressure in my shoulder)
Moved back to the Hammer Strenght isolaterals. I'll have to slowly introduce my dumbbell presses. I love the isolateral machines, so not too upset about it.
Iso-lateral Wide Presses
matched last documented
Iso-lateral Incline Presses
did not complete second set due to failure
150x8 (whoa, last two reps were forced/partial)
Fatigued quickly today. Still felt nearly as strong as I was before I got sick, but the endurance wasn't there. Out of breath quickly as well.
I am moving back to dumbbells and bars on my rowing motions. Spent way too long on the cables with little here. I dont have much of an imagination for back..
Bent Dumbbell Rows
+15 pounds (using final full-set poundage)
50x12 each side
75x6 (last two reps were partials...)
Wide grip Bent Barbell Rows
+20 pounds (using final set poundage) from last time I did these, mostly attributable to familiarity I believe (only my second time with this)
Wide grip cable lat pulldowns
no change in strength from last workout two weeks ago.
Close grip cable lat pulldowns
fatigued + shoulder pain here. need to split back and chest days out as time permits...
Rope straight arm pulldowns
not much left in the tank...
No deads on chest/back day (was doing light deads to test my back/core on this day). I was hoping to add deads this week, but my lower back is still touchy. I'm going to stick with stiff-legged deads on leg day to cover lower back. I feel comfortable at the weight range I've been playing with and it really kills my hams. However, I AM going to start with some light squats to test out my back on leg day. I havent done squats since college, and would at least like to get some light ones in to see how my disks handle the compression. The guys in the gym have been telling me to stay away, but I seriously need to see for myself if I'm able to incorporate these. Don't worry, I'll be careful. Been doing dumbbell squats to develop some muscle memory before I throw a bar on my back.
Considering the sickness and the loss of 5 pounds of bodyweight, I still felt strong. My endurance is noticeably down, but that will go away very soon once I get back in the rythm. I did not supplement during the period of stomach distress either. I'm writing this the morning after the workout, and I am SORE. I haven't been this sore in a LONG time. I'll attribute this to two weeks of sedentary life, but have seen quite a few of the PRIME loggers experiencing a similar level of soreness.
The price of gas was high last night... my wife wouldn't even come near me.
The evening after my first PRIME doses, I have literally the worst gas I've ever experienced in my life. I have dealt with the gas that comes with becoming accustomed to large protein intake, and this is much worse. It is like walking directly into the Yellowstone Sulphur Cauldron with an open mouth after one of these things gets loose. No diet changes to speak of, so I'm attributing that to PRIME lol. Time for another bottle of Gut Health unless you have any better ideas!
Last edited by SokVichet; 10-12-2008 at 01:38 AM.
09-10-2008, 12:56 PM
09-10-2008, 01:14 PM
09-10-2008, 08:39 PM
You should definately do the loading phase - I don't think anyone else logging the product is - why not if you've got the extra product?
I'm guessing you've got my goodies in the post too Mullet?
09-10-2008, 08:42 PM
09-10-2008, 11:51 PM
9:00 Breakfast (dose)
1:00 snack (dose)
5:00 snack (dose)
9:00 snack (dose)
Today fell a little different, but still had about 3-4 hours between doses. Felt somewhat euphoric before leg workout (unusual as I'm usually completely exhausted and irritable after work), and UBER euphoric afterward today. I usually feel the "all is well with the world" after my leg day, but not like this. I just drove home with the windows down blaring some Agnelli/Nelson (electronic) on the way home, and didn't even want to get out of the car I was in such a calm and relaxed state. I'm hoping this is something related to the high Prime dosing and will continue. I followed this up with a wonderful relaxing dinner with the wife. It has been 3 hours, and this feeling has not subsided. Fricken awesome, I love/hate leg day!
Squat Leg Press
down in weight here, but this was expected
270x18 (wow, i didn't feel much resistance at all, so kept going)
450x12 bumped up to working sets
I was pushing 555-575 for reps before I hit a plateau, and then injured my ankle out of nowhere most likely due to overtraining or just the stress of the weight. Instead of continuing on this path back to my plateau (I reaaaaaallly made some HUGE gains during that time in my legs), I'm gonna change things up and move to a high volume squat routine as my back allows. 20 rep sets, and go up from there with a few heavy weeks thrown in. Any ideas here?
Feeling good about experimenting here, as my legs have always been my weak spot and now they are finally something to be proud of. When I started about 5-6 months ago, I could barely rep out 180 pounds here. At one point I had improved OVER 300% from my starting point!
Felt really good about these today. Back is feeling strong with some of the usual sit-in-a-crappy-chair-all-fricken-day back pain, but the working pain is gone even during these lifts.
HUGE increases in the final two sets by up to 30 pounds.
followed by various Machine Leg curls
*looking around for a new leg curl machine... my favorite lying leg curl machine is out of commission with no ETA on a replacement.
Calf Raises (standing)
Donkey Calf Raise machine
Sorry for the long updates. Trying to hit as much detail as I have the perception for.
09-11-2008, 11:56 AM
Hooray! Back up to 205! I'm hoping not too much of the wife's birthday cake I ravaged last week (Cold Stone Creamery ridiculousness) is part of that number... Hey, that moment of weakness will motivate me for a month, give me a break :P
09-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Holding 207 lbs for 2 days straight. Back on track. Been having residual stomach discomforts that might send me to the doctor soon... Tenderness and some occaisional sharp pains at below the belly button on my left side... I have yet to find a decent primary physician, so I am reluctant to take a trip to see the a**hole.
Been through 4 this year, and havent spent more than 15 minutes TOTAL with them. What the h3ll is this? They send their nurse in for a BP measurement, etc. They ask me to recount my symptoms with minimal interest (just some "uh huh"s) and then I have to say it all again to the doctor who cuts me off with "Ok, I'm gonna prescribe [name a drug]".
I usually try to keep them in the room to ask questions, but they all rush me. I realize they have other patients, but I still haven't found a single doctor that will actually listen long enough to find a solution to the problem, rather than some f'ing symptom medication.
It's not like I have any really complex issues. Just some allergies (year round... ok they are really bad and have seen specialists with similar results), and an occaisional short-term sickness. But I still need to have a dialogue, and an actual question/answer session with a professional. Not some quick prescription writing service.
09-15-2008, 10:54 PM
NEW CHEST PR
Chest / Back tonight. I cut the grass as soon as I got home from work (late day too), and was worried I'd be too tired for a good workout. But some Pendulum psyched me up for a new chest PR!!
I am still working the Hammer Strength machines as my main working sets, and throwing in dumbbell presses every other week. No real rhyme or reason here, just some variation.
Wide-grip Iso-lateral Hammer Strength press
my second set felt so light, I bumped up 30 pounds beyond my best working set on the next go
110x20 (warmup set)
270x10 HUGE PR! (spent it all here... lol)
Iso-lateral Incline Hammer Strength press
really didn't have much left in my chest at this point. still working my endurance back up, but the 7 heavy sets felt good and I had a skin-stretching pump! need to keep the cocoa button on to prevent marks.
Bent dumbbell rows
70x9 (extra rep for the heck of it)
Bent wide-grip barbell rows
90x8 (couldn't bump to 100 here for a new PR, endurance just isnt there, could be the time of night)
Sitting dumbbell reverse flys (name?)
ENTIRE set dropset. Not much left in me at this point, so i figured I'd go ahead and spend it
Machine chest flys
finish up with some blood flow to the boobies!
Late workouts, PRIME, and looking forward to tomorrow (LEGS)
Man, I tell ya. I have to say I've never had such a good LATE workout. I felt some endurance issues (I guess I've been a bit spoiled with my huge endurance gains in the past few months), but as strong as ever, and even popped a PR early on! I felt that awesome euphoria before during and after the workout, and am still on the "high". I have to attribute that to a great workout + Prime. I haven't had the euphoria persist this long, ever. I'm loving it, and can't wait to see what happens over the next month!
I am still working the 8-9 pill loading period, even through my stomach discomfort (totally unrelated to Prime). Tomorrow will be the true test of the condition of mah belly, as I hit legs, and hopefully my first SQUATS in over 6 years (the whole back injury thing)!!!
Last edited by SokVichet; 10-22-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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