Another Epi Log!
- 08-18-2008, 11:19 PM
Another Epi Log!
I'm going to run my last cycle of the year, and since I loved epi the first time I ran it, I will run it again. I'm going to run it at 20/30/30/40. I plan to get around 10lbs out of this cycle. I am going to really change up my training going into this cycle. My strength contests are over for the year, and I really want to put on some size while I'm going to school. I'm going to start bodybuilding type training and keep reps in the 8-12 rep range.
I'm currently around 200lbs dry right now. I'll get a true weigh in this weekend when I start the cycle.
Torem or Novla- I have both on hand
On cycle and PCT
Flax seed oil
- 08-18-2008, 11:23 PM
right on man! i just did a similar cycle but of havoc. i gained 11 lbs. ! good luck
- 08-20-2008, 05:30 PM
08-20-2008, 05:57 PM
08-20-2008, 08:12 PM
Subbed in and looking forward to hearing how you go.
Just out of interest what type of training program are you running and did you consider pulsing? I am unsure of how I am going to run it when I do so I am after everybody's opinion ATM.
08-21-2008, 09:27 AM
08-21-2008, 01:51 PM
Comments on my first run of epi.....
Good luck to ya!
Since opinion has been asked for.....
I just finished PCT following my "first ever cycle" and I used epi.
I ramped quickly to 40mg/day (started at 10, went to 20 after 3 days and then 30 after 3 more, etc).
I had initially planned a 5 week cycle, but honestly gains were diminishing after 4 weeks, and for me the "dry joint syndrome" got to be too much. By the 4th week it hit my hips and that was too much, so I ended at 4.5 weeks.
I capped my own epi from raws.
I went from 205# to 218#, after PCT and a carb-restricted "cutting diet" I am still at 211. My "during" and PCT supps matched yours above, plus some hawthorn for my heart and additional silymarin and cissus.
I bought the RYR-free version of Cycle Support. That stuff tastes like absolute ass - if you can cap it I advise it highly. I make the most awesome protein shakes with nuts and fresh blueberries and the CS simply ruined the taste (like adding a dose of PineSol cleaner)
My diet was not as good as it should have been, but it wasn't horrible. Initially it was hard to eat that much, but once the epi kicked in I had no trouble tucking into 4000+ calories a day - keeping carbs in check was not an issue as the epi know how to use 'em. I will say that my water consumption went through the roof - this is critical with epi I believe. Lots of water.
This was the first time in a LONG time that I did not miss a single workout in 5 weeks, including 2 of them by candle light compliments of Hooterville Power not being able to keep the lights on.
My desire was to try and lose some weight - I'd bet if I'd have eaten more like some of you youngsters do on cycle (6k calories/day) I'd have _easily_ added another 5+ pounds.
Regarding the joint pain - I was dosing about 18g fish oil a day, on top of the additional omega stuff from flax meal and omega-3 eggs. Eventually I added a cissus extract, but it did not help. I had a free bottle of "Boswella" (the latest joint herb) and it was totally worthless (perhaps an extract would be better, but the straight herb powder was a waste of time)
At the end of it all I was really not ready for a cycle. My BF was too high (over 20%). I should have worked out for another 6 months to a year, but as an old man (45) I wanted to see how well I could do, and overall I did well enough.
I lift alone in my basement so tend to stress form over poundage. I am also a lanky bastard and basic physics keep my weights low. All exercises were 10-12 reps for 3 sets. I did a 4-day split, 2 days for legs and back, 2 for chest/shoulder/arms.
My squat went from 105 to 180
My hack squat went from 100 to 200
...as stated - for 3 sets of 10-12 reps. Not sure what my single max might be, but I am sure that it went up a LOT. All my lifts improved similarly. It was quite a rush.
My body comp did not change as much as I had hoped, but given that my weight changed 13# it is clear I lost some fat and gained some muscle. I put 1/2" on my biceps, not bad for <5 weeks. Unfortunately I did not have any kind of caliper test, but I'm sure I lost lots of fat on my arms, ass, and upper torso.
Once my cycle ended I immediately missed the "rock hard pumps" I got from epi, but in PCT I started to load creatine heavily and that maintained the pumps to a degree. But wowsers - my arms and legs got so tight on the epi it was awesome.
Sides for me:
joint pain; got a bit oily; some back pumps; killed libido and greatly decreased seminal volume
PCT was pretty easy - I ended up using Toremifene myself, not being overly fond of Nolva/Tamoxifen (I had both and actually started on the Nolva) what with Nolva being a known carcinogen in humans and all. I do not believe epi to be a very harsh steroid, but I definitely experienced shutdown and testicular atrophy. How much my age played I cannot say, but that was a concern for me going into the cycle (ruining my nuts for whatever term of procreation I might have left in me )
I loved epi, and will consider it again for my next cycle (prolly near the holidays). I will likely do a shorter run (again, based on how I responded) and stack it with another compound for the balance of the run (I've got some 19-nor saved up). But again, at my age I worry about causing some kind of endocrine shut-off, so I may actually just run "real gear" and look at it as HRT....
Not trying to hijack the thread, just offering up my $.02
08-21-2008, 11:31 PM
08-21-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm planning on starting my cycle this Sunday. I'm ready to gain some serious weight and nail some PR's!
08-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Well I'll be starting my cycle at a bodyweight of about 202lbs. I want to gain 8-10lbs of muscle. I'm going to eat so much during this cycle that I hope I can gain more then 12lbs including fat. I wouldn't mind getting up to 10% bodyfat. Right now my bodyfat is pretty low, under 8%.
08-22-2008, 02:52 PM
Subcribing to this thread as I am interested in comparing results. I am hoping for a longer cycle, but the sides will definately be the key to the length of my cycle. Best of luck to you.
08-22-2008, 11:06 PM
After this cycle I will take about 5 months off then I'm going to start using real gear, so anyone with experience with Test E. and/or Eq. I'd appreciate any advice.
08-25-2008, 10:33 PM
2 days in... No gains yet. They should start this weekend, or early next week.
08-26-2008, 01:48 AM
08-27-2008, 05:48 AM
08-29-2008, 06:07 AM
I started the cycle at about 198 dry walking around at about 202. I'm up to 203 dry and walking around at about 206.5. The goal is to gain 12lbs, and get over 210.
My diet is different then my diet on previous cycles. I am eating all the good healthy foods I need, and then throwing in something ****ty at the end of every meal. Essentially I am getting 500-1000 calories of garbage. I'm hoping that by doing this I will gain some fat, or atleast not drop fat, while on this cycle.
08-30-2008, 05:40 AM
IMO you need to feed epi - it will move carbs where they need to go. Hopefully you're doing over 4000 cals/day...
I _started_ with this, but ended up adding about another 1000 cals (mostly carbs) after some "peer input":
4 whole eggs
Supps (multi, fish oil, etc)
1c water / 1c lowfat milk
2 scoops "complete" protein powder
1/4 c nuts (walnuts, peacans)
TBSP Hemp nuts
TBSP Flax meal
1/2c lowfat cottage cheese
12oz brown rice
6 to 8oz chicken or tuna
Supps - fish oil
"Super Shake" #2
water only no milk/cottage cheese
low-carb protein powder
Creatine, ribose, water
Creatine, protein, BCAA, Aminos
12oz brown rice
6-8oz Beef or Chicken
Salad (lettuce, tomato, cucumber)
Supps (multi, fish oil)
"slow" protein drink (caseinate)
DHEA, ZMA, GABA, Glutamine
I was given some advice to try an ingest fats and proteins at different times, but it was too much of a PITA for me. I was also dosing so much fish oil that I was getting plenty of fats.
08-30-2008, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the info Longtorso. Here's my diet outline:
12-16oz Chicken or Tuna
1-2cups of a Smoothy consisting of banana, berries, and ice.
2 cups milk
(sometimes) Oats, Peanutbutter, and a banana
12-16oz Chicken, Fish, or Red meat
Something that tastes good
12-16oz Chicken, Fish, or Red meat
2 cups milk
and something that goes well with peanutbutter
It's been a little harder getting my meals to fit in with my class scedual, but I guess having 5 is better then none.
08-31-2008, 08:05 PM
Hopefully the OP won't mind me taking up a bit more space in his log.
I got this via PM, and I thought it raised points that others might also be thinking after my comments above.....
First, let me clarify my lifting & routine. I work out alone in my basement, so I have to compromise - I can blast the KMFDM and/or the ABBA as loud as I want to and grunt to my hearts content without getting yelled at by some cardio junkies entering their second hour at 4mph on a treadmill - but on the flipside I have no one to spot me and that means lower weights. So I do a few more reps, and make sure my form is as picture perfect as I can.as much as I appreciate your willingness to share your Epi experience, I scratched my head when I read your lifting numbers , like 3 sets of 105 pounds in the squat which you took to 180 pounds.
Currently that looks like this:
Squats - 12-15 Reps
Hack Squats - 12-15 Reps
Lying Leg Curls - 15-20 Reps
Standing Calf Raises - 15-20 Reps
Seated Calf Raises - 15-20 Reps
T-Bar Rows - 10-12 Reps
Seated Cable Rows - 10-12 Reps
Barbell Curls - 10-12 Reps
Alternate Dumbell Curls - 10-12 Reps
Flat Bench Presses - 10-12 Reps
Incline Dumbell Flyes - 10-12 Reps
Dumbell Presses - 12-15 Reps
Lateral Raises - 12-15 Reps
Upright Rows - 12-15 Reps
Upright Dips - 12-15 Reps
One-Arm Pushdowns - 10-12 Reps
Crunches - 20-30 Reps
Hanging Leg Raises - 15-20 Reps
....doing three sets of everything. So, by squatting 180 and hack-squatting 200 I lift a total of 12, 540 pounds per session based on 11 reps per set - just for those 2 exercises. I don't think that's bad at all. Can I lift far more than that - hells yeah. But I never said I was in this to be a competitive lifter, or whip out my proverbial johnson by touting my personal bests. I have long been a believer in "it's not just how much you lift, but how you lift it". If I had a workout partner it would be different, but this is what I can do and still insure that the Mrs. isn't going to come home and find me dead or worse, snapped in half. The point is that my "safe" numbers increased dramatically - try to overlook the poundage and appreciate the delta.
Further, I am 6'3" with a 38" inseam and 36" long arms - I have some interesting physics to content with - and am well aware that I will _never_ be huge. There are a number of exercises where I will never move huge weights - like the lateral raise.
16" biceps are not massive on 5'6" guy, but they don't look bad at all on someone with an arm as long as a yardstick.
I appreciate the premise, but don't happen to agree. I've been lifting a solid 2 years after a 10 year hiatus (in my 20's & 30's I was an avid lifter).You took a steroid to gain a strength level most beginners have reached within 4 - 6 months of their training, naturally.
You have to keep in mind that I am 45 years old. My natural test levels are dwindling fast, and I take the afternoon naps to prove it. If I were 18-22 I'd agree that it was not in my best interest, but I an an old f**k. And I know that there are some wicked-huge older dudes, but they've been faithful to the "sport", and that's just not been possible for me (I travel extensively and work some crazy hours - I'm a computer consultant - I just worked 22 hours straight doing a datacenter move in CT - and STILL found time to lift in what Marriott calls a "gym") I just about considered this a form of self-prescribed HRT.
Lastly, did you not see where I said this:I don't judge anyone that's clearly done their homework and decide that they want to run a cycle regardless of their "worthiness" - ANYONE can do a run, whether or not you get results is the big difference. The 18 year olds that pop into the forums saying that they just got some SD clone from GNC is another story.Originally Posted by me
I did my research, and at the end of the day decided it was what I was going to try for myself.
I got the right support supplements
I designed (and logged) a decent diet
I lifted religiously
I drank a ton of water, gots tons of fiber (BBers do _not_ get enough fiber, it is essential)
I slept as best I could
And I paid attention to the side effects and quit when it was time
And I followed through with an equally well planned PCT
The comment is obviously based in the belief that did, in fact, only make "freshmen year" gains.... but -What in the world made you think you need a roid?
Because I just wanted to see how it would work on me before I got any older. And I was quite pleased. Ultimately it was my choice to make. I find it hilarious (and not just a little hypocritical on my part) but that's also most of the 18-20 year olds say when the masses try to dissuade them from trying an oral. The major difference is I (and my endocrine system) am old enough to be their father.
However, based on the sides (albeit mild) and the total results for what it cost me and for the pill-popping schedule I again state that I prolly was not in the best place to TOTALLY benefit from them, but at the same time the gains I made were obvious in the gym and clearly visible in my lanky, aging physique.
The next time I do a run (and there will be a next time) I will likely get over my personal stigma with the needle and just run "real gear". And quite honestly - my biggest issue isn't the needle - it sourcing reliable product.
Anyway, those are my comments....
I expect the OP will start to post up some good reports in the next couple days
09-01-2008, 10:06 AM
Very good answers to all those questions.
I've started to see the strength a little bit, but no big mass gain to speak of. Mass should start coming in the next day or so.
09-04-2008, 06:05 AM
Today I was 206.5 dry!! I'm still shooting for another 4 pounds or so over the next 2.5 weeks.
09-04-2008, 07:27 AM
09-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Bumped epi up to 40. So I'm running it 20/30/40/40. I'm up to about 208 dry now. I'm still hoping to get up to about 212-215.
09-12-2008, 02:37 PM
I weighed 210 dry this morning. I'm hoping I can get another 2-5lbs before the end of next week.
-About 10 pounds
-Deadlift is up about 40lbs
-Overhead Press is up about 20lbs
-Increased acne on the back of my neck and shoulders.
-Libido is way up. I am always thinking about getting some. Downside to that is, I'm always getting random erections like I did when I was about 14-15.
09-17-2008, 04:20 PM
Not really putting on much more mass, but strength is up. Hopefully I can keep it all when I get off.
09-23-2008, 10:35 PM
Ended this cycle at 210.5lbs. Currently running torem, retain2, and activate xtreme.
09-24-2008, 09:29 PM
Allergy season is really kicking in. I was wondering what you all think of Zyrtec-Allergy? I just don't want to put any more strain on my liver.