[Ares]

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

protein synthesis has been shown to be enhanced for a full 24hrs following a workout. the ‘window of opportunity’ is at least 24hrs long.
increasing insulin by utilizing carbs will enhance protein synthesis the same pwo as it would any other time of day.
if you are caught up on nutrient timing, PWO would be low down on my list of importance. here would be my priority list as i believe that preventing catabolism is easier than trying to further enhance an anabolism.
1. breakfast
2. pre-bed
3. middle of the night
4. pre-workout
5. post workout

i’d even argue that you wouldn’t need to worry at all about pre and post workout nutrition if you are already eating quality frequent meals during the day.

No one is debating protein-synthesis and how it is increased post-workout. Insulin on itself is increased post-workout. So is cortisol and free radicals. And pre-workout nutrition is important, but does not mean a shake, and does not include carbs. I believe you are lumping everything in together, when we are nearly discussing carbs pwo.

With that being said, this is why you eat every 2-3 hours, to assure a steady state of aminos in the bloodstream and controlled insulin release as well as increased nutrient partitioning. Every meal is equally important, you cannot skip one, but this is when nutrient timing comes in. At breakfast and PWO your metabolism is ramped up and can handle carbs, better than any other time of the day.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

i’m saying trying to spiking insulin is unnecessary.
i agree, carbs are necessary and are almost impossible to completely remove from your diet. even when i try and keep a low carb diet I still get well over 100g/day. even my pwo shake of slower digesting protein and fat has carbs from the milk. i just don’t see a reason to add more carbs pwo when recovery is a 24hr process and my daily carb intake is usually more than adequate.

Carbs are not necessary and every other meal of the day I do not directly eat carbs other than fruits or vegetables.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

of course i want quick results.
but in reality it isn’t possible if you want quality without sacrificing your health.
even with prohormones it is a slow process. sure you can add 10lbs of water, muscle glycogen, body fat and a little muscle. once the water, glycogen and fat is gone you are lucky to retain a few lbs of quality. it’s a slow process to change a physique
i’ve learned to accept this and just stay consistent with my diet and training over time.

No one is debating this. Once again this is a focus on carbs post-workout.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

the ‘window of opportunity’ is at least 24hrs long, so as long as you pronk it sometime during that period you will get a wet vagina.

Yes, but it will take another workout aka foreplay to get it wet again.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

supplement industry is barely focused on pwo supplements? whey protein and creatine come to mind. both of the lables on my cans say take pwo.

They weren't designed for PWO. They also tell you to take it throughout the day, and even load creatine.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

the carb metabolism studies i’ve seen show mixed findings. that leads me to believe that we just don’t know enough about it yet.

Are the studies pwo or daily carb intake. Remember we are discussing PWO carbs only, but you keep going back to daily nutrition.

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

my opinion on carbs comes more from broscience and personal experience.
i was a D1 Pac-10 scholarship athlete in college. i needed carbs more than ever to recover and be able to train at such a high level. back then my glycogen levels were probably never fully recovered between workouts. you have to remember that many of those pwo studies on CHO/Pro/Amino were run on endurance athletes.

now that i’m just a recreational guy into athletic appearance doing a 1hr weight workout maybe 4-5 days/per week i can recover completely fine on very little carbs.
could i be a bigger mass monster with higher carb intake? yes, probably.
would i be as lean? no, probably not.

I don't know if you completely understand where I cam coming from.

I never said anything about higher carb intake. I am talking about ingesting specifically timed carbs post-workout, where your muscles are primed and fat storage is minimal. So, if you allow yourself 100g of carbs per day, take 50% of those post-workout. And the remaining spread throughout the day.

Carbs are not necessary, but can aid in recovery and growth when they are properly timed. However, the fatter a person is, I would avoid them anytime of the day, until fat level is at a respectable level.

If you do not ingest carbs PWO, what I am currently doing:

0.3g of whey protein per pound
0.2 to 0.3g of glutamine per pound
0.05 to 0.1g of glycine per pound

I do not think it wise to consume milk at pwo. Because of the slow releasing and nutrient blocking potential.

Why don't you try my current PWO protocol and save the milk for an hour later and see how things go? BTW I am working my way to your protocol, just gauging the effects of my current protocol.

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

So...are eggs good again?

eggs are always best when thrown at someone.

[Steveoph]

Hank did you change your avy? I swear your pants just dropped an inch

[VolcomX311]

Originally Posted by Steveoph

Hank did you change your avy? I swear your pants just dropped an inch

I think so, he doesn't have that, Obsession for Men cologne face on, anymore.

[shaddow]

Originally Posted by VolcomX311

I think so, he doesn't have that, Obsession for Men cologne face on, anymore.

It's Abercrombie & Fitch FIERCE!



Get it right!

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

Hank, will you be posting your diet while running this log? Reading your posts here really has me curious.

my breakdown from fitday yesterday.




i'm fairly consistent in eating like this most of the time.
i usually have 1 meal each week where i'll eat crappy (burgers, pizza, sweets).
and occassionally (once every 3 months maybe) i'll have an entire week of crap eating.

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by Nabisco

Hank, why am I not surprised that your log has turned into a debate on pwo nutrition? Get back to business!

is that a little picture of you you kicking me in the nutz and then giving the 'rock-on' hand signal? not cool. lol.

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by pistonpump

im really interested in this product. I know you will deliver a good log hank. How many doses do you have again?

i think i counted enough supply to last me 18 days. so almost through the end of august for this run.

good to have you in this piston! you have quite the anonymous thread going!!!

[VolcomX311]

Originally Posted by Hank Vangut

my breakdown from fitday yesterday.




i'm fairly consistent in eating like this most of the time.
i usually have 1 meal each week where i'll eat crappy (burgers, pizza, sweets).
and occassionally (once every 3 months maybe) i'll have an entire week of crap eating.

The tabs don't work...

I'm just kidding, nice detail on the diet.

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by Ares

I don't know if you completely understand where I cam coming from.

i do get what you are saying.
as volcom mentioned, there is WAY more scientific data supporting the 'window of oportunity' side of the argument. and it does make a hell of a lot of sense.

now for some broscience:
i used to try and consume most of my carbs for breakfast and pwo.

then i switched to little to no carbs for breakfast and pwo and have been doing this for the past yr.

the no carb for breakfast and pwo has made me much leaner while maintaining or even improving my muscle mass and strength. weird huh?

if i had to come up with a reason to explain this, i would say that when cortisol levels are elevated (comming off a fasted state or post excercise), insulin sensitivity is greatly increased.
when you add fast digesting nutrients (simple carbs and whey) into this already hightened environment it is overkill and causes a superspike of nutrients that are not able to be shuttled directly to only muscle.
so the remainder is storred as fat as you body's high cortisol levels are saying you'll need this blubber for the next time you starve or workout this hard.
sure, protein synthesis is at it's maximum at this time as the studies have shown.
but i bet that fat synthesis is also at it's maximum as well.

my approach is to eat slower digesting foods during these times of hightened insulin sensitivity so your body can ease out of this stressful cortisol period.
once your body figures out is isn't dying, then you can ad the carbs without getting a wacked out 'lets store this as fat' response.

from my own personal trial and error experience i now give more credibility to the newer studies focused on daily nutrition.

i do like your pwo approach Ares and think it is solid.
i guess i'm talking more toward the waxy maise/whey iso abusers.

[Hank Vangut]

Originally Posted by Steveoph

Hank did you change your avy? I swear your pants just dropped an inch

lol. yeah, a&f demanded i lower my pants an inch for that fierce cologne ad.