[Hoomgar]

Originally Posted by Universal Rep

I was pointing that out cuz it's not necessarily the same as buying beef liver in the U.S. and cookin' it up... Grass fed is different.

If they don't give them anything else in their diet then that qualifies as Organic doesn't it? It's a solid point U. I knew that already from reading the can but like I said above, I'm probably guilty of under thinking it. I just know that all the big lifters of old had written how they used these and that is why I set out to find them. I've been using them every since and I feel great so I have to believe that they are nutritious and good for me.

Still J is right about the liver being the body's dirt filter although I'm not sure how much of a concern that should be to us who consume it? I'm looking forward to seeing what the lab guys can tell us.

How many Uni's a day are you up to U? I'm downing about 14 to 18 right now.

[Universal Rep]

Originally Posted by Hoomgar

If they don't give them anything else in their diet then that qualifies as Organic doesn't it? It's a solid point U. I knew that already from reading the can but like I said above, I'm probably guilty of under thinking it. I just know that all the big lifters of old had written how they used these and that is why I set out to find them. I've been using them every since and I feel great so I have to believe that they are nutritious and good for me.

Still J is right about the liver being the body's dirt filter although I'm not sure how much of a concern that should be to us who consume it? I'm looking forward to seeing what the lab guys can tell us.

How many Uni's a day are you up to U? I'm downing about 14 to 18 right now.

Dunno much about what makes what organic... Me, 2-3 per each meal. Simple.

[justreading]

Originally Posted by Universal Rep

Dunno much about what makes what organic... Me, 2-3 per each meal. Simple.

A liver is a liver is a liver, organic, synthetic, or from your pet dog... I'm not saying they are super unsafe and personally I would take anything even if it was unsafe if I knew the benfits were enough to justify it for me (check out my log ha - I am NOT afraid of taking risks for rewards). All I am saying is some added vitamins and a few grams of protein don't justify the unknown toxins...

I'm not attacking anyone, I have been very impartial on this but I guess no one on this board lieks it when you question their supps. Oh, well I've never been here to be popular but enough members here who I speak with respect me for that.

[Universal Rep]

Originally Posted by justreading

I'm not attacking anyone, I have been very impartial on this but I guess no one on this board lieks it when you question their supps.

Honestly, I don't see your posts as attacks. And honestly, I don't count myself among the number you describe.

[justreading]

Originally Posted by Universal Rep

Honestly, I don't see your posts as attacks. And honestly, I don't count myself among the number you describe.

thanks man - I'm just sharing the other side of it so that younger guys might have the full picture to consider or incase someone forgot about it. Just want to make sure all the info is out there (at least the info I can help with). Honestly in times of hard training when diet was a concern I might even consider them but I'd do so with my understanding and thats what I wanted to express for others incase they overlooked it...


No harm, rock on Universal

[Hoomgar]

Originally Posted by justreading

thanks man - I'm just sharing the other side of it so that younger guys might have the full picture to consider or incase someone forgot about it. Just want to make sure all the info is out there (at least the info I can help with). Honestly in times of hard training when diet was a concern I might even consider them but I'd do so with my understanding and thats what I wanted to express for others incase they overlooked it...


No harm, rock on Universal

Now there is a tune I can sing along with. Sounds good to me bro. Still, that info has been requested so I'll be posting it in here for you when I hear back from them. You got me curious now.

Hg

[Universal Rep]

Originally Posted by justreading

thanks man - I'm just sharing the other side of it so that younger guys might have the full picture to consider or incase someone forgot about it. Just want to make sure all the info is out there (at least the info I can help with). Honestly in times of hard training when diet was a concern I might even consider them but I'd do so with my understanding and thats what I wanted to express for others incase they overlooked it...


No harm, rock on Universal

As a consumer, it's critical that you get as many perspectives on any supplement, especially a new one that you've never used before. Not one rep, Universal or Animal, disagrees with this.

[B Con]

Originally Posted by Universal Rep

As a consumer, it's critical that you get as many perspectives on any supplement, especially a new one that you've never used before. Not one rep, Universal or Animal, disagrees with this.

Very very true.

[EasternLEGEND]

I got a barely opened bottle of Uni-Liver i cant wait to start taking them i used to only take 2 tabs a day i am going to move to 6 tabs a day. what do you suggest would be a good dose of Uni-Liver to take to get some real muscle mass.

[B Con]

Originally Posted by EasternLEGEND

I got a barely opened bottle of Uni-Liver i cant wait to start taking them i used to only take 2 tabs a day i am going to move to 6 tabs a day. what do you suggest would be a good dose of Uni-Liver to take to get some real muscle mass.

Just depends on diet/training mostly. I take around 3 to 4 spread out over 3 or 4 of my meals. Definitely take them with food and just move up from the 2 tabs a day as you see fit.

[Fabulous One]

What do lions eat first when they make a kill? The liver, and all the other internal goodies. I love liver tabs and I also love eating beef liver and onions. I have a nice big black angus down here in my field awaiting his execution date on October 20th. I can't wait to get back all that good fresh liver, heart, kidneys, lungs and oxtail!

As for toxins I would be willing to bet that there are probably more toxins in all these so called "healthy organic foods" from your local grocery store as they are in liver. Thats why I have my liver, to filter all that stuff out. Give him a little milk thistle and he is good to go.

For the ones that were wandering about the liver and testosterone connection read here:

Vitamin A:
The Forgotten Bodybuilding Nutrient
By Chris Masterjohn

The dense forest of bodybuilding nutrition contains a paradox: the quantity of information available is abundant, but the wisdom of traditional diets to satisfy the primary concerns of bodybuilders is sparse and hard to find. Typical recommendations include very low-fat diets rich in protein foods like salmon and chicken.

You will search in vain through mainstream men's health magazines to find so much as a mention of the importance of vitamin A to bodybuilding. Yet this nutrient is essential to muscle-building and may be the bodybuilder's most potent weapon. Vitamin A is necessary for the utilization of protein and the production of testosterone and other growth factors. In fact, one human study, discussed below, found the administration of vitamin A and iron to have results equivalent to the administration of testosterone itself. Rather than advocating the consumption of vitamin-A rich foods such as liver and natural food-based supplements such as cod liver oil, mainstream men's health writers are advocating diets very high in protein, which deplete vitamin A reserves, leaving one to wonder whether the athletes who resort to over-the-counter steroid supplements might be able to achieve similar results by consuming a traditional diet, rich in vitamin A.

Vitamin A and Testosterone
Abundant animal research indicates the importance of vitamin A to the production of testosterone. Vitamin A crosses the blood-testis barrier in its alcohol form as retinol, where it is stored in the Sertoli cells and converted as needed to its more biologically active form, retinoic acid. Experiments with rats show that greater concentrations of vitamin A in the testes increase basal testosterone secretion, as well as transferrin, which is responsible for the transport of iron; and a variety of growth factors including IGF-binding protein 4 (which transports IGF), androgen-binding protein (which transports androgens), transforming growth factor-beta (which causes cell growth but suppresses cancer) and steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (which is responsible for the transport of cholesterol into the mitochondria for its conversion to steroids). Vitamin A also decreases estrogen production in the male testes. Rats that are deficient in vitamin A experience decreased testosterone until the accessory sex organs atrophy, indicating that vitamin A not only aids in, but is essential to, testosterone production.1

One experiment using guinea pigs, which corroborates the many experiments done with rats, found a decrease in plasma testosterone associated with a deficiency in vitamin A.2 A human study comparing the dietary intakes of 155 pairs of male twins found a correlation between testosterone levels and vitamin A intake.3

The most compelling study is one that assigned 102 teenage boys with short stature and delayed puberty into four groups: a control, a testosterone-supplemented group, a vitamin A- and iron-supplemented group, and a group that received both testosterone and the nutritional supplementation. All treatments were effective in inducing growth and puberty, whereas the control group did not gain weight or begin puberty in the same period of time. What is most amazing is that the degree of growth acceleration was similar in the testosterone-treated group and the vitamin A-treated group. Pubertal onset occurred in 9-12 months in the testosterone group, and by 12 months in the vitamin-A group.4

This study suggests two things. The first is that the growth problems these boys experienced could have been avoided if their parents only had known the importance of serving a meal with liver on a weekly basis, as liver is very rich in both vitamin A and iron. The second is that, with equivalent hard work and dedication, athletes and body builders may be able to achieve similar results from their training by taking high-vitamin cod liver oil and eating foods rich in vitamin A on a regular basis as others receive from the common practice of supplementing with testosterone precursors.

Vitamin A and Prostate Cancer
Although some researchers have expressed concern that androgens such as testosterone may be involved in the etiology of prostate cancer, from vitamin A we can expect only more good news. Scientists in one controlled study administered doses of cyproterone acetate, an anti-androgen, and testosterone proprionate, to rats, followed by N-methyl-N-nitrosourea, a carcinogen, with one group treated with large doses of vitamin A. The incidence of prostate cancer in the group not treated with vitamin A was 65 percent, while only 18 percent and 20 percent of vitamin A-treated rats experienced dorsolateral and anterior prostate cancer, respectively.5

Vitamin A and Protein Utilization
The utilization of protein requires vitamin A. Several animal studies have shown that liver reserves of vitamin A are depleted by a high dietary intake of protein, while vitamin A increases in non-liver tissues. One explanation for this is that adequate protein is necessary for vitamin A transport. In one study researchers fed radioactively-labeled vitamin A to rats on low-protein and high-protein diets, using the amount of radioactivity present in exhaled gases, urine and feces as a measure of the metabolism of vitamin A, and found that vitamin A is indeed used at a higher rate on a high-protein diet.6

Vitamin A is not only depleted by a high intake of protein, but it is also necessary for the synthesis of new protein, which is the goal of the bodybuilder. Rats fed diets deficient in vitamin A synthesize protein at a lower rate than rats fed adequate vitamin A.7 Cultured skeletal muscle cells increase the amount of protein per cell when exposed to vitamin A and D, but not when exposed to vitamin D alone.8

Eat Your Liver
Bodybuilders and other athletes interested in gaining muscle have an interest in boosting their levels of testosterone and other growth factors and maximizing their utilization of protein and its incorporation into muscle cells. Typical recommendations usually include very high amounts of protein, but exclude foods like liver that are high in vitamin A, and low-fat recommendations all but banish vitamin A entirely from the diet by excluding foods such as full-fat milk. The combination of a high-protein diet that depletes vitamin A and a low-fat diet that fails to provide vitamin A is a clear recipe for deficiency of this vital nutrient. Exercises that elicit a high demand for testosterone, such as squats and deadlifts, are often recommended for muscle growth, but without vitamin A the body cannot meet that demand for testosterone. It's high time for athletes to forget the modern mantras and remember the dietary wisdom of the past, achieving a lean, muscular physique through traditional foods such as liver, egg yolks, full-fat milk, butter from grass-fed cows and cod liver oil.

[Hoomgar]

Good read F, repped for that.

Hg

[B Con]

Originally Posted by Hoomgar

Good read F, repped for that.

Hg

Seriously. x2