Test. levels for a 21 year old

[aaron12]

Hi guys. About six months ago, I started having a number of things happen that prompted me to get my testosterone levels checked (not with my regular doctor). The total serum came out to be 597 ng/dl, free testosterone of 10.8 pg/dl. From my research (and I'm not very knowledgable on this), these seem to be numbers more suited for a 40-50 year old. I am wondering if these numbers may be contributing to the symptoms I've been having. More specifically, I no longer experience morning tumescence, and, while I can get an erection, I have a very difficult time maintaining it when having sex. My gains in the gym and with body fat reductions are also far less spectacular than I have been hoping for, although I'm sure a number of confounding factors can attribute to this. I think I should also note that I try to live a fairly "fit" lifestyle... I sleep well, try to eat well, etc.

So, my question is: with these numbers and symptoms, is it worth going to the doctor, or should I try to just wait it out... and if I should go to the doctor, how should I approach him to try to get the most out of it?

Thanks

 

[mkretz]

def. just wait it out, make srue you are eating plenty of helathy fats lifting hard but also resting and not overtraining, you are fine, those numbers arent even low.

 

[triceptor]

597 is low.. most assays use just under 400 as full blown hypogonadism so you're not far away from that.. when did these symptoms occur? How long ago?

 

[aaron12]

I started having problems with my gf about six months ago, and started noticing the absence of morning wood around then too. Haven't been messing around with any supplements I shouldn't be, so I can't identify if something changed...

 

[Big Tav]

Sub to this thread.

 

[WerdUp]

597 is low.. most assays use just under 400 as full blown hypogonadism so you're not far away from that.. when did these symptoms occur? How long ago?

597 is NOT low. It is well within physiological range for a 21 year old male.

 

[kingdong]

597 is NOT low. It is well within physiological range for a 21 year old male.

Seriously, I think any doctor who says thats low is more concerned with selling steroids than boosting health. Ive never even heard of 400 being low as far as health is concerned.

 

[nattydisaster]

597 is not low at all. In fact that is pretty normal.

 

[triceptor]

hardly a good level for age 21 year old.. many MD's would agree with you.. not me.. 597 is something I would expect to see in a 40+ year old.. 900+ is what I would expect to see in a 21 year old and i know physicians like Morgantaller, Shippen, Crisler and Gordon who would agree with me..

 

[triceptor]

OK.. maybe they assays we are referencing are different but in a standard lab like Quest total test ranges are 380 to 1100 ng some labs use 280 to 800 so it depends upon teh bottom of the range.. these are not age adjusted also.. for older men teh age adjusted ranges will be lower because its expected that older men have lower testosterone... I'll get someone to come on teh show and discuss this topic.. testosterone levels in younger men -vs- older men and what is "healthy" and sub optimal...

 

[triceptor]

I stand corrected.. I just found out Quest has lowered the "bottom" of their reference range to 250ng in light of the ever growing number of young men presenting lowered testosterone levels..

 

[bdcc]

The classic scenario that allows the average standards to slip further and further downhill.

 

[Big Tav]

So they have lowered the range because more young men are showing signs of low test levels (from being "soyed?) that's like moving the obesity ranges because more people are getting fat. We need to know what is optimal if we are trying to be our best.

 

[kyoryoko]

Unfortunately that's what is happening... So that ppl are "normal" not "optimal"

 

[aaron12]

I'm not so much concerned about my T levels as I am the things that are coming as a product of them. If 597 is considered a "normal" level for a 21 year old, that's fine, but I hardly think the sexual dysfunction is... So either the symptoms aren't a product of my T levels, or my present T levels aren't healthy for me...

And with respect to the first scenario, I live what I consider to be a fairly healthy lifestyle (taking what I can from SHR and nutrition books), and I'm not trying anything unhealthy that might be messing with my sexual function, so what confounding factor besides my hormone levels would contribute towards a six-month+ bout of sexual dysfunction for a 21 year old? Honest question... I am fully prepared to deal with erectile issues when I'm in my 40's or 50's, but I really wasn't expecting it this early...

Thank you for all the contributions so far

 

[bdcc]

Get a more comprehensive panel. Testosterone is not the only factor that effects sexual behaviour. It isn't even the only hormone.

 

[aaron12]

Get a more comprehensive panel. Testosterone is not the only factor that effects sexual behaviour. It isn't even the only hormone.

Estradiol: 33.4 pg/mL (reference interval of the lab is 7.6-42.6)
SHBG: 36.5 nmol/L (reference interval 14.5-48.4)

Not sure which other ones would be relevant... in any case, everything else was within the reference interval (normal), and it was a fairly comprehensive panel.... except I had very slightly elevated LDL cholesterol and BUN/creatinine ratio, although the former was barely high and the BUN/creatinine I guess I attribute to high protein diet...

 

[iron fists]

A lot of it can be simply environmental factors as well as increased stress related. I mean 20 years ago a normal level for a 40+ man was in the 700s.

 

[BURNT DICE]

Relax bro...those levels are normal test levels. Get a full panel and discuss your problems with a doctor as it is probably unrelated to your testosterone numbers. As for putting on bulk, if the number are a bit higher or a bit lower I don't think you'll notice much of a difference. For example I bench ~300lbs with a test level of 382 (I'm 40 to be fair, but still). It's not until you get way up in test levels that you are really gonna notice a big difference in what you pack on/lift and that usually requires drugs.

Couple things to think about:

1. Your brain can be the biggest reason you have trouble getting wood or keeping it up. Sometimes you can psyche yourself out. Just relax and enjoy sex and don't over think it.

2. For packing on muscle eat lots of food and protein. Eat slightly above maintenance and work out hard

3. For natural proven ways to boost your test (not that you really need it based on those numbers) See this
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/boosttes.htm

If you're really worried something is going on there, than definitely talk to your doctor and investigate, but as for test levels alone, you are normal. Check the following chart:

http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html

 

[JeremyT]

I am also afflicted with low test, my dad is on TRT, and even my AUNT has to take some test because her levels are SO LOW. So i know how you are feeling bro. Im also 21.

I know this is going to sound crazy man, but aside from hormones, you need to ask yourself what your diet is like as well. Roughly about 6 months ago now, I was dealing with almost EXACTLY the same thing that you were dealing with. I did a few main things that really helped me get out of that funk. The first was to cut out all the stimulants that I was taking, especially jack3d, tea, coffee and the like. I found that on days when I took them (after i was burnt out from the effects and the gym) I had a much more difficult time getting, and staying hard, even during sex, but if I didn't I could get excited, and stay excited.

At the time I was a semi-vegetarian. I mainly ate only chicken, fish, and some seafood. Since then I have done a complete 180, and now I mainly only eat beef, pork, and some fish. I got REALLY sick of chicken haha. I found this really helped me as well for some reason, maybe the fattyness of it, i dunno.

Thirdly bro, and something that also helped me turn **** around, get a good test booster, ( I used Animal Test, worked insanely good) and remember what it feels like to be ****ing horny, and to be hard alot more. Try and burn into some good 'routines' if you know what I mean. When i finished up the 6 weeks, I came off, but I never came down, and it has seemed to just carry me on for the past 4 months without any of these issues.

Lastly, chillout, watch some good porn, and try to keep enjoying ****. I know it can be a SHOTGUN blast to the ego when this kind of stuff happens, but shrug it and keep on going!

 

[nattydisaster]

You can find good information from experienced people in the field in the anti-aging forum. I would take your question there. Pretty much all that is talked about.

Also note that your test levels can fluctuate by up to 40% per day depending on what time of day you got them tested, what kind of sleep you got, and what you did the night before.

A lot goes into it.

 

[triceptor]

Get a more comprehensive panel. Testosterone is not the only factor that effects sexual behaviour. It isn't even the only hormone.

QFT

Dopamine and Serotonin.. Cortisol... even Prostaglandins can have a profound effect on erection and sexual quality... stress will effect almost all of these..

 

[triceptor]

Dr John Crisler will be on specifically to address this question on Thursday of this week during the first hour... we will all be informed...

 

[HomeWorkouts]

I have no idea what the numbers should be but one problem could be to much estrogen. You could research into that. Some causes are soy products which are in a ton of things these days.

 

[BURNT DICE]

Dr. John will be on, cool!

So, what time (time zone) will he be showing up? Will he basically be showing up in this thread and posting for an hour to those interested in the discussion? I'd be interested in being there for that and possibly asking a few testosterone questions.

DICE

 

[ryanp81]

Thirdly bro, and something that also helped me turn **** around, get a good test booster, ( I used Animal Test, worked insanely good) and remember what it feels like to be ****ing horny, and to be hard alot more.

A otc product like animal test is not gonna help anyone with low T.

 

[JeremyT]

I never said that it would 'help' them. If you read what I had said in that little bit, I said it was just for your mind, not what it -could- do to your hormones and affect your test levels.

 

[micharch]

So, my question is: with these numbers and symptoms, is it worth going to the doctor, or should I try to just wait it out... and if I should go to the doctor, how should I approach him to try to get the most out of it?

Thanks

Did you take baby formula when you where a child? Did you measure estrogen levels to see if you have an inbalance? Are you getting morning erections every day?

BTW "Normal" changes with every generation... normal test levels in the 60's a lot higher than today's levels. That does not make it "Normal", it is just an adaptation to current lifestyles and poor genetics.

 

[aaron12]

Did you take baby formula when you where a child? Did you measure estrogen levels to see if you have an inbalance? Are you getting morning erections every day?

BTW "Normal" changes with every generation... normal test levels in the 60's a lot higher than today's levels. That does not make it "Normal", it is just an adaptation to current lifestyles and poor genetics.

I don't believe I was fed formula, and my estradiol was tested and was within the lab's reference interval. And I haven't had a morning erection in at least six months...

I guess it could be stress... I mean I'm a premed but I've also been a premed for three years, and I don't see anything happening that has recently made my life more stressful. I guess I'll try meditation or something...

 

[micharch]

I don't believe I was fed formula, and my estradiol was tested and was within the lab's reference interval. And I haven't had a morning erection in at least six months...

I guess it could be stress... I mean I'm a premed but I've also been a premed for three years, and I don't see anything happening that has recently made my life more stressful. I guess I'll try meditation or something...

Interesting... Some things that have worked for *me* are:

Good intake of saturated fats like Coconut oil, Eggs, Red Meat, Pistachios, Avocados. (This will also help your brain)

Don't overtrain, and for me 4-6 reps of the basics (Squats, presses, deadlifts) seems to keep my test levels up.

8 hrs of sleep

Adding raw Maca to my 3 daily protein shakes (15g each)

Also 100-150mg of Zinc Citrate and 500mg Magnesium Citrate


Good Luck!

 

[kyoryoko]

Interesting... Some things that have worked for *me* are:

Good intake of saturated fats like Coconut oil, Eggs, Red Meat, Pistachios, Avocados. (This will also help your brain)

Don't overtrain, and for me 4-6 reps of the basics (Squats, presses, deadlifts) seems to keep my test levels up.

8 hrs of sleep

Adding raw Maca to my 3 daily protein shakes (15g each)

Also 100-150mg of Zinc Citrate and 500mg Magnesium Citrate


Good Luck!

This is some excellent advice. Along with this I'd try to limit or omit all fructose, when you are going to workout or something i'm sure some fruit would be okay unless you are metabolically deranged (high bf), then i think you should try your best to cut it out. You can live for a while w/o fruits as long as you take a multi vit/ maybe some anti oxidant supps. But I wouldn't 'omit' them indefinitely.
Stick to your lower fructose containing starches for carbs.
But for sure get that magnesium. If you can run more tests check your DHEA level (I think it was the sulfur DHEA level). I believe Mike Mahler had a podcast on SHR on this and he also sells a cream on his site.

 

[triceptor]

SHR 6/9 @ 9:00AM PT/12:00PM ET

Chickens In The Hood PLUS Is 597 "Normal" Testosterone For A 21 Year Old PLUS Amino Acids For Super Humans Part Three

Guest: Steve Lewis & Dr. John Crisler & Prof. Dr. ProfDr Andro

Listen LIVE using the player at the top of the page

 

[BURNT DICE]

Will they be doing a kind of lecture or can we propose questions to the experts somehow

 

[triceptor]

post questions here.. Dr. Crisler will only be on for 30 minutes and we'll try and answer your questions.. I can always have him back on to go deeper.. just trying to answer the OP...

 

[BURNT DICE]

I was only able to listen to the tail end of that ( at work) but what I heard was fascinating and now I'm hungry for more info. gonna check out the site allthingsmale.com. I never really noticed the listen live link up there before and listened to another show earlier this morning on GMO's. I'll be dialing in more often for sure.

Would love to here more from Dr. Crisler in the future! thanks AM.

DICE

 

[aaron12]

First of all, thanks Carl for putting that question up to Dr. Crisler, and thanks to Dr. Crisler for his time...

To address some of the uncertainties from the segment, the reference interval for total T was 249-836, and for free T was 9.3-26.5. My SHBG was tested in the panel, and came out to be 36.5 nmol/L (ref int 14.5-48.4)... I don't know if Dr. Crisler would still agree the SHBG is high.

I agree that a lot of it has probably been self-induced.. I did have some pretty sh*t experiences early in the year that lingered on in my mind... I'm gonna be more open with my gf and work on my confidence in the bed.

 

[Dr. John]

Did you happen to see an albumin test in there? It'd be part of a "Comprehensive Metabolic Panel".

 

[aaron12]

Did you happen to see an albumin test in there? It'd be part of a "Comprehensive Metabolic Panel".

Yes sir: 4.7 g/dl (ref int 3.5-5.5)