Testosterone and its influence on prostate cancer??
- 12-27-2002, 09:12 AM
Testosterone and its influence on prosate cancer??
There are a lot of threads floating around on other boards regarding Test dramatically increasing the risk of or directly causing Prostate Cancer in men. Can we get some honest, no propaganda, info from the chem gurus and vets about this supposition? I'm curious to hear the real dealy on the this one.
- 12-27-2002, 09:33 AM
- 12-27-2002, 10:32 AM
bro , dont worry , ure going to be fine . i know when a person is up with something , he always looks for these things , but trust me , ure gonna be fine . so lay off these negative things . i'm sure u understand what i'm saying .
12-27-2002, 10:49 AM
Ray, I'm not worried that I have any issues as of present bro. I just came across a bunch of threads while searchig for prostate health threads that were talking about the cancer issue. My only question is, is their validity to the claim or is it propaganda? I'm just curious if there is acutal facts out there or is it another Media/Medicince fear tactic.
12-27-2002, 02:33 PM
What i got from reading those articles is void estrogen at all costs. I agree too i hate estrogen. This means definitely take strong anti-estrogens postcycle becauseyouwill have a lot of estrogen floating around and hardly any thing to counteract it.
THey say men get BPH according to one article posted becuause of lower testosterone production which normally blocks the etrogen(the estradiol version) from causing growth and also because less progesterone produced means increases in the conversion of testosterone to dht.
As for 1-test ive noticed ive gotten bph symptoms on it and yet there was hardly any estrogen floating around during the cycle in comparison to the the androgenic 1-test and dht floating around, so my question is how does that work?
THIS MAY ANSWER MY QUESTION TAKEN FROM THE 2ND THREAD WW7 POSTED.
DHT causes protate hypertrophy and not test in itself. We want to avoid hypertrophy as it often converts to cancer.
Many in the medical field think that a lot a men are walking around with a tiny amount of prostate cancer that grows very very slowly. These men end up dying of other causes,like heart disease, before the cancer grows enough to kill them. BUT IF YOU FEED THE CANCER WITH TEST IT WILL GROW LIKE MAD!
Prostse cancer grows slowly, especially in the older man, partly because of reduced serum testosterone. Prostate cancer grows quicker in the younger man because he has more test in his system. Now if you feed the cancer extra test through injection it will grow very quickly indeed.
The best treatment for slowing prostate cancer, that has left the prostate itself, is to castrate or give drugs that inhibit test production.
Older men have a weaker immune system and that is why we see more older people with cancer.
Older men have more hypertrophy than young men...this is true...but this is because DHT builds up over years and the affects of DHT are not seen right away just like a man doesn't go bald over night.
An example of a young man with prostate hypertrophy?.....take a look a gwl9dta4 statement above...while he was on D-bol!
I am not saying that he has it now but he did while on d-bol and that is not a good thing.
12-27-2002, 03:00 PM
I think dht or estrogen could be both independentaly the culprit as it seems to be the case. Maybe either one could cause cancer, im not sure. Someone more knowledabele know?
12-27-2002, 03:06 PM
Yeah there are some using Nolva to treat BPH now. That speaks volumes about the role estrogen plays. A combo of Proscar and Nolva or Femura would be highly effective I presume.
12-27-2002, 03:29 PM
Yah here is what bill llewellyn says
" This touches on a very important point. Although DHT is classically linked to BPH, due to the fact that it is the active androgen in prostate, estrogen is tied to this disease as well. As the model shows, neither androgens or estrogens alone trigger BPH. They play synergystic roles here. It has therefore been suggested that DHT may even be a better form of androgen replacement than testosterone for someone at risk for BPH.
With finasteride and T, you only lower androgen action in the prostate , not diminish it, as T is still active. However you can effectively eliminate estrogen action by supplementing an non-aromatizeable androgen like DHT. DHT can actually PREVENT BPH under the right conditions."
I remember patrick arnold even mentioning about estrogen and androgen ratios. Whats odd though is that i can still get enlargement without an increase in estrogen for example with 1-test or 1-AD cycle by itself where there is an actual decrease in estrogen.
I still think either one plays a part by itself. to what extent im not sure each one plays and which one or if both of them ultimately lead to cancer, i haven't researched enough.
12-27-2002, 03:38 PM
Another thing bill llewellyn says
"I think you are missing my point a little.
Take a look at this reference.
Transdermal Dihydrotestosterone Treatment of "Andropause". Bruno de Lignieres. Ann Med 25 235-241, 1993. Here is a quote: "Early stages of prostatic hypertrophy require synergystic stimulation by both DHT and estradiol, and suppressing estradiol instead of DHT seems easier and better adapted to the specific situation of aged hypogonadic men. ...DHT may be considered an attractive alternative to testosterone for long-term treatment of andropause".
I'm just trying to point out that non-aromatizeable compounds like DHT may indeed be much safer than testosterone or other aromatizable androgens, or test plus finasteride for that matter.
Your focus on DHT alone as THE culprit in BPH reflects the general misunderstanding people have about this hormone. First androgen action in the prostate is key, NOT DHT SPECIFICALLY. Secondly, the uncommon genetic disorder you are referring to in which prostate size remains very small throughout adult life bears little relevance to a healthy older athlete using anabolic/androgenic steroid to promote muscle growth.
- Bill Llewellyn
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