Prostate health, the male, and the androgen user. - AnabolicMinds.com

Prostate health, the male, and the androgen user.

  1. windwords7's Avatar
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    Prostate health, the male, and the androgen user.


    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">BDC brethren, I have decided to put together a comprehensive thread regarding prostate health. Herein you will find information, individual accounts, and links dealing with common problems regarding the prostate and the androgen user, as well as general health info about the prostate and males. The simple reality is at some point in life nearly EVERY man in America will have some non-cancerous prostate related condition and half of all men will likely have a cancerous prostate disease. This is not an OLD mans concern, it’s ALL men and Androgen users have to be careful of unique issues as well. Thanks to all the bro's who have contributed either in posts or with some of the links down below.


    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">With that said let the links begin!

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Excellent Article titled: Dealing with the Prostate
    http://www.consciouschoice.com/holisticmd/hmd1206.html

    Easing Prostate Discomfort
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://nv.essortment.com/prostateinfecti_resx.htm


    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The Prostatitis Foundation-Tons of info from symptoms to surgery to medication
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://www.prostatitis.org/

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Symptom Index-Self Test to determine likleyhood of prostatitis, etc. Very good!
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://www.prostatitis.org/symptomindex.html

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Prostate Health
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...light=prostate
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Good read about Steroid Use and Prostate Problems
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...rostate+cancer
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp;
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Fina and the Prostate

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/For...hlight=proscar

  2. windwords7's Avatar
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    I have two posts that I am beggin your chemicaly minded people to read and add your comments to. There has to be a way to address a prostate that has been aggrivated by hormones by introducing other hormones that "combat" the ill effects. Please read and lend your thoughts and expertise! Thanks a million guys.

    WW7

    ====================

    Q: Since testosterone appears to play a role in prostate gland enlargement, should men who have that condition avoid pro-hormones?

    A: Not necessarily. They may be able to use a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor [such as finasteride, or Proscar] with their 4-AD and still be okay. Or better yet, they may find that a nor-pro-hormone like nor-4-AD actually helps their prostate by competing with testosterone in the prostate, resulting in far less androgenic stimulation and growth. (More specifically, it would be norDHT competing with dihydrotestosterone, the testosterone metabolite responsible for prostate enlargement.) However, I must advise anyone in this situation to check with his doctor first—even though the doctor is likely to be clueless about the subject and too scared to suggest anything but staying away from all pro-hormones.


    &nbsp;

    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

    Please read this as well and tell me your thoughts!
  3. windwords7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pogue
    saw palmetto?

    I don't understand exactly what you're asking. Are you asking what will stop DHT production, what will stop conversion, or the enzyme that causes PHs to convert to DHT?
    Well did you read my first post and then the link in the second post? Both of those were written by Patrick Arnold and I am trying to glean exactly what and how you could use other hormones to combat the flare up of prostate problems that certain hormones have already caused. If you could please, read th article and let me know your thoughts.

    I have taken Saw Palmetto already. I am looking for a hormonal response to treatment.
    •   
       

  4. Sean's Avatar
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    What, exactly, is wrong? Do you have an enlarged prostate, an infection, or something else?

    If it's just enlargement, take a look at this.
    http://www.ivillagehealth.com/librar...245567,00.html

    Antibiotics (don't know which ones), alpha blockers and finastride are mentioned. Fina can take up to 3 months to work, it says.

    Fina appears to be a common prescription for benign prostate hyperplasia (the fancy medical name for enlarged prostate).

    http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2002/niddk-28.htm
  5. windwords7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sean
    Bump for windwords. How're you doing?
    Well its been almost 2 months again and I am almost back to where I was before the one dose of androgens that set me back. One dose set me back almost 2 months!!! But needless to say I am learing a lot, albeit the hardway, about androgens and the prostate. I am hoping in a few months to try again, but we will see. I am going to be expeirementing with Proscar (Finasteride) as well. Peace bros!
  6. Lakevillethor's Avatar
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    Re: Treating the Prostate with PH's. Need some Chemical Guru's advice please!!!


    Originally posted by windwords7
    I have two posts that I am beggin your chemicaly minded people to read and add your comments to. There has to be a way to address a prostate that has been aggrivated by hormones by introducing other hormones that "combat" the ill effects. Please read and lend your thoughts and expertise! Thanks a million guys.

    WW7

    ============================== ========================

    Q: Since testosterone appears to play a role in prostate gland enlargement, should men who have that condition avoid pro-hormones?

    A: Not necessarily. They may be able to use a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor [such as finasteride, or Proscar] with their 4-AD and still be okay. Or better yet, they may find that a nor-pro-hormone like nor-4-AD actually helps their prostate by competing with testosterone in the prostate, resulting in far less androgenic stimulation and growth. (More specifically, it would be norDHT competing with dihydrotestosterone, the testosterone metabolite responsible for prostate enlargement.) However, I must advise anyone in this situation to check with his doctor first—even though the doctor is likely to be clueless about the subject and too scared to suggest anything but staying away from all pro-hormones.
    So wait, is it the conversion of test to DHT via 5-AR which is harmful to the prostate. Or, is it the enzyme itself, 5-AR, which hurts the prostate itself. It seems to me that it would be the DHT that actually harms it.
    -AT
  7. Lakevillethor's Avatar
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    Re: Treating the Prostate with PH's. Need some Chemical Guru's advice please!!!


    Originally posted by windwords7
    I have two posts that I am beggin your chemicaly minded people to read and add your comments to. There has to be a way to address a prostate that has been aggrivated by hormones by introducing other hormones that "combat" the ill effects. Please read and lend your thoughts and expertise! Thanks a million guys.

    WW7

    ============================== ========================

    Q: Since testosterone appears to play a role in prostate gland enlargement, should men who have that condition avoid pro-hormones?

    A: Not necessarily. They may be able to use a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor [such as finasteride, or Proscar] with their 4-AD and still be okay. Or better yet, they may find that a nor-pro-hormone like nor-4-AD actually helps their prostate by competing with testosterone in the prostate, resulting in far less androgenic stimulation and growth. (More specifically, it would be norDHT competing with dihydrotestosterone, the testosterone metabolite responsible for prostate enlargement.) However, I must advise anyone in this situation to check with his doctor first—even though the doctor is likely to be clueless about the subject and too scared to suggest anything but staying away from all pro-hormones.
    Okay, I just read the post again and it is the DHT which causes the problem. In all seriousness, you may be able to get a doctor to prescribe nandrolone for you in this case. Nadrolone doesn't convert to DHT; it converts to norDHT like the post says. I don't know the effect of NorDHT on the prostate. Nandrolone would also, obviously, shut down your natural production and therefore, not allow anything to convert to DHT. I think that this would help you out considerably. If you were to take any of those hair drugs, which bond to 5-AR, wouldn't this do the same thing though? Just throwing this out there.
    -AT
  8. Sir Savage's Avatar
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    Jake, that is an interesting idea about taking less androgenic prohormones to compete with the more androgenic ones (Nor-DHT vs. DHT). However, I think this could still very well lead to problems, because they are competing, the DHT could "win" the competition, and aggravate your prostate again. As you know, it doesn't take much!

    I think the better idea is to take a 5-AR inhibitor to block DHT, AND an anti-e to block estrogen, since both are known to aggravate the prostate. Like we talked about last night.
  9. Lakevillethor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    Jake, that is an interesting idea about taking less androgenic prohormones to compete with the more androgenic ones (Nor-DHT vs. DHT). However, I think this could still very well lead to problems, because they are competing, the DHT could "win" the competition, and aggravate your prostate again. As you know, it doesn't take much!

    I think the better idea is to take a 5-AR inhibitor to block DHT, AND an anti-e to block estrogen, since both are known to aggravate the prostate. Like we talked about last night.
    Has anyone read any data suggesting that norDHT is harmful to the prostate? If so, it's probably not a good idea to supplement your natural test with nandrolone. Other wise, I don't see why this would be a bad idea temporarily to relieve yourself of the prostate hypertrophy by using nandrolone. The thing is that if you did take nandrolone, you wouldn't even get the competition of DHT with NorDHT (it would actually probably be called dihydronandrolone so DHN)- you wouldn't be producing any natural test therefore no DHT could be produced. I have a steroid conversion chart via enzymes in front of me that doesn't show any other pathway to get to DHT other than converting to testosterone first. This doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't another way to go to get the conversion. BTW, do we even know if there is such a thing as DHN - I haven't anything to suggest that DHN even exists.
    -AT
  10. macattack's Avatar
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    windwords did you take the Saw palmetto during your cycle?

    I did and havent had any problems, i took large doses 2 times daily.
  11. Sir Savage's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lakevillethor


    Has anyone read any data suggesting that norDHT is harmful to the prostate? If so, it's probably not a good idea to supplement your natural test with nandrolone. Other wise, I don't see why this would be a bad idea temporarily to relieve yourself of the prostate hypertrophy by using nandrolone. The thing is that if you did take nandrolone, you wouldn't even get the competition of DHT with NorDHT (it would actually probably be called dihydronandrolone so DHN)- you wouldn't be producing any natural test therefore no DHT could be produced. I have a steroid conversion chart via enzymes in front of me that doesn't show any other pathway to get to DHT other than converting to testosterone first. This doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't another way to go to get the conversion. BTW, do we even know if there is such a thing as DHN - I haven't anything to suggest that DHN even exists.
    -AT
    Nandrolone, also called Nor-Testosterone, has a metabolite very similar to testosterone's DHT. It is not as androgenic as DHT, though, making it a better choice for folks prone to androgenic-related side-effects.

    And, there would still be testosterone production. If he takes 4-AD, there most certainly will be a high level of testosterone, which could lead to DHT. Even if he does not take 4-AD, though, there will still be testosterone production, it will just be very low. Either way, it might be a good idea to take a less androgenic androgen, and have it compete with the more androgenic androgen, at the receptor sites.
  12. windwords7's Avatar
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    Prostate health, the male, and the androgen user.


    <H3>Prostate Health and Medications</H3>
    <DIV class=text12>Anabolic steroids (AS) have long been popular drugs of abuse. One report estimates that 6.6% of high school senior males in North America take them.<SUP>[3]</SUP> In addition to the many irreversible adverse effects AS have on the body, the drugs also may affect the prostate. The prostate is sensitive to androgenic stimulation, as exhibited by the fact that its growth and development is mainly regulated by the male's endogenous testicular secretion of testosterone.<SUP>[4]</SUP> In adult males, a continuous output of testosterone is mandatory to maintain the prostate's cellular integrity and functionality. In a novel observational study, a 49-year-old male body-builder who was using a "cocktail" of several different anabolic steroids, volunteered to have his prostate function measured for seven weeks.<SUP>[3]</SUP> His prostate volume increased from 24.9 to 47.3 square centimeters; his urine flow decreased from 18.8 mL/second to 15.7 mL/second, and he noted a decrease in nocturnal urinary frequency to once or twice nightly. Four weeks after steroid administration ceased, the first two parameters approached, but did not reach, pre-steroid use levels. If pharmacists are asked for advice about prostate problems by a male whose physique suggests the possibility of AS abuse, the patient should be referred to a physician. It would not be wise to suggest a nonprescription diuretic or herbal remedy without a medical examination, which might reveal a serious underlying condition. The pharmacist should remember that any effects of AS are shared by the steroid precursors sold in pharmacies and health food stores. The most common of these products are DHEA and androstenedione.</DIV>
  13. windwords7's Avatar
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    Here is a quote from Big Cat:

    "prostate hypertrophy occurs mainly if you are in the trouble period between 50 and 60. Its a combination of androgenic and estrogenic traits, and can usually be solved with anti-estrogen treatment. However it is best that if you have advanced prostate hypertrophy that you do not take any risks. As of age 45 a yearly check up would be advisable."
  14. windwords7's Avatar
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    Nolva/Tamoxifen for treatment of BPH...


    A lot of guys, myself included, have taken finasteride (Proscar) at some point to treat or prevent Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia caused by excessive testosterone use. As most people know, Proscar blocks the conversion of test to DHT, which is thought to be responsible for prostatic hyperplasia. The big drawback to this is the decrease in libido and possibility of gyno from the lack of DHT.

    However, over the past few years the importance of estrogen to the development of both prostate
    cancer and prostatic hyperplasia has become evident. This study used tamoxifen as an alternative to finasteride to prevent BPH in rats.

    Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue 2002;8(2):98-102

    An experimental study of the inhibition of tamoxifen on rat model of benign prostatic hyperplasia

    Chen B, Bai JL, Zhang SS, Fu W.

    Department of Urology, First Affiliated Hospital of Lanzhou Medical College, Lanzhou, Gansu 730000, China.

    OBJECTIVES: To study the inhibitory mechanism of tamoxifen on benign prostatic hyperplasia. METHODS: The Wistar male adult rats were injected into muscle with testosterone propionate 4-6 mg/kg, simultaneously were irrigated into stomach with tamoxifen citrate 0.21 mg/kg. The partly rats of each group were decapitated at 7, 15 and 30 days, then their index numbers of prostate were calculated, and the structural changes of the prostatic histocyte were observed in the light microscopy and scan electronic microscopy. RESULTS: At the 7th, 15th, and 30th day, the index numbers of prostate of those rats which had been injected only with testosterone propionate were higher than that of the control group and the irrigating group(P &lt; 0.05). The hyperplasia of the prostatic epithelial cells and the ground substance of those rats, which had been irrigated with tamoxifen citrate, had not happened in light microscopy and the scan electronic microscopy. CONCLUSIONS: Tamoxifen could block the effect of the estrogen, which could suppress the prostatic hyperplasia. This study could provide the experimental evidences for using Tamoxifen to treat the human benign prostatic hyperplasia.
  15. windwords7's Avatar
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    Update:

    Well it looks like I've finally found a method to fight this now nearly 6 month battle with prostate problems since my last cycle. I started proscar as I mentioned above and now, after much reading, I a have started Nolva as well. Within 2 days of starting Nolva my pain had diminished by 60-70 percent! It appears that excess estrogen is and has been the culprit. I will keep you all updated. Thanks for the support you all have shown me for so long now!

    WW7
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    Great to hear! Go NOLVA!!!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  17. jweave23's Avatar
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    Bump for badbart, check this out.
  18. badbart's Avatar
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    I'm going to try liquid finasteride and liquid nolva next cycle. I ordered them and should have them soon. I'll let you guys know how it works.
  

  
 

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