Whats the point of running a prohormone cycles?

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    Whats the point of running a prohormone cycles?


    Whats the point of running prohormone cycle? (p-plex, m drol if it makes you lethargic?
    ive been running p-plex mdrol cycle, im 3 wks in to the p-plex and third day stacking m-drol. i think m-drol making me feel real hazy like i been smoking pot, and i got redness/ swelling under eyes. think ill just finish p-plex and do mdrol at later time. you guys got any comments suggestions. why am i so lethargic if this stuff is supposed to give me gains, i usually workout 4-5 times a week but now i dont even wanna get up to go to the gym
    26 y.o, 5-11, 200lbs.

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    sd clones are notorious for inducing lethargy. I'd try megadosing some Vitamin C and see if that helps. I used alot of C on my m-drol cycle and I am sure it helped.

    Make sure you are eating alot of carbs as well.

    I had to start back on coffee too
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    This is going to sound(read) cliche' but,

    What is your diet like?
    What' do you eat before or after dropping the pill?

    And, what was the reasoning behind stacking these two for this cycle...When I used to be into cycles, I would always just cycle one just so that I can tell which is doing what...

    I never felt any lethargy from pp or sd.

    It has been theorized that some "prosteriods", or whatever they are called now a days, have debilitating effects on BG levels which would explain, if so, why some people feel lethargic on them.

    ^Of course, there is MUCH more to the explanation, but that' is supposed to be the gist of it.
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    Come to think of it, there is also reason to believe that the suppression of natural T levels plays some effect also ...

    But back my last post:
    I know that if I ate a nice large meal before pp/Sd, I NEVER felt any lethargy. Even on m1t, I never felt it, IF i ate a nice complex carb meal followed by a protein shake. When I didn't eat anything, or very little, i felt like a turd.

    So from that i would say that T suppression may contribute, but also the effect on BG levels are a huge factor. However, some pro-steroids/DS/hormones, etc, do not mimic the effects of other popular steroids(original)...therefore , one can not equal the other. I may pop dbol and feel good, I may pop m1t and feel like crap...so forth and so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterman1 View Post
    Whats the point of running prohormone cycle? (p-plex, m drol if it makes you lethargic?
    ive been running p-plex mdrol cycle, im 3 wks in to the p-plex and third day stacking m-drol. i think m-drol making me feel real hazy like i been smoking pot, and i got redness/ swelling under eyes. think ill just finish p-plex and do mdrol at later time. you guys got any comments suggestions. why am i so lethargic if this stuff is supposed to give me gains, i usually workout 4-5 times a week but now i dont even wanna get up to go to the gym
    26 y.o, 5-11, 200lbs.
    What, you expected to feel good stacking two very powerful methylated steroids, both known for causing lethargy?

    Why did you need to stack them anyways? I have a friend who is 270 pounds (granted he is 6'3) and he loved his gains on 10mg of superdrol a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    Come to think of it, there is also reason to believe that the suppression of natural T levels plays some effect also ...

    But back my last post:
    I know that if I ate a nice large meal before pp/Sd, I NEVER felt any lethargy. Even on m1t, I never felt it, IF i ate a nice complex carb meal followed by a protein shake. When I didn't eat anything, or very little, i felt like a turd.

    So from that i would say that T suppression may contribute, but also the effect on BG levels are a huge factor. However, some pro-steroids/DS/hormones, etc, do not mimic the effects of other popular steroids(original)...therefore , one can not equal the other. I may pop dbol and feel good, I may pop m1t and feel like crap...so forth and so on.
    excuse my ignorance, do you mean blood glucose? can you explain more? i don't know too much about these things but as i get older they are more intriguing to me

    thanks
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    Just as most things in life, there's always some bad with some good. You may be trading lethargy for decent gains. There's risk involved with everything - sometimes you have to live with it. If it continues, I'd look into a pre-w/o stim to get you going atleast.
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    I think the #1 goal of any supplement/product shouldn't be producing muscle, but rather producing an excellent & powerful workout. I think you should re-evaluate your plan and make sure you GET TO THE GYM!
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    At 26 years old why are you considering or taking prohormones.Your t levels should be at the top of the range . You should be wanting sex 24/7 .

    In my view you should let your body "normalise" and then consider supplements that add mass on a different route.

    The endocrine system is not to be messed about with unless you really know what you are doing By trying to solve one problem you can create another.

    Personally i only see prohormones or designer steroids being useful for the more mature guy whos t levels are falling through age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    Why did you need to stack them anyways? I have a friend who is 270 pounds (granted he is 6'3) and he loved his gains on 10mg of superdrol a day.
    He needs to stack them because he does not have the genetics that your friend has.

    We were not all created equal.
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    Why indeed?

    Too many people use steroids to make up for a lack of knowledge or they just don't have what it takes to do it without..yah it takes balls to remain natural, but you get to keep them lol

    Everybody can make gains naturally, there comes a time when that slows down considerably, especially when your older but that really doesn't happen to a signicant degree untill you past 40.

    Knowledge will take you further than drug use every time, hard work pays off more than artifiicial enhancement. Always be looking for ways to improve your diet and exercise routine.

    I think that herbal products provide a very good alternative. As time goes by they keep getting better and with the right amount of research you can find herbal alternatives that will get you just as far or further in the long run.

    Yes why indeed ?
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    I can attest to the getting older and gains slowing thing. I've been hovering between 220 and 230 for 2 or more years. When I don't "diet", my weight is usually in the low 230s, but it seems to remain constant without any diet or exercise. And when I'm hittin' the gym and nutrition hard, it's like pulling teeth to get under 215.

    I'm getting ready to turn 28. Things are much harder to accomplish now than they were 5 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
    He needs to stack them because he does not have the genetics that your friend has.

    We were not all created equal.
    Look, with decent training/diet 99/100 people are capable of making gains in the gym without steroids, right? If not a greater ratio. Add a potent compound like superdrol to the mix, and if you aren't gaining then, the problem isn't your genetics or your steroid, it's your diet/training!

    Maybe his genetics aren't as good, sure. I HIGHLY doubt that is the case though, and I also don't believe it justifies anything.
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    quote"I'm getting ready to turn 28. Things are much harder to accomplish now than they were 5 years ago"
    Have you put this in as a joke-28 or 23 time is still on your side. I would have thought at 28 you still can still acheive your goals.If you feel pessimistic , that might be your problem
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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    What, you expected to feel good stacking two very powerful methylated steroids, both known for causing lethargy?

    Why did you need to stack them anyways? I have a friend who is 270 pounds (granted he is 6'3) and he loved his gains on 10mg of superdrol a day.
    Exactly!!! I think the real question is do you actually realise what you are taking? Steroids!
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    To your lethargy question and to a point which was made above, 4AD or DHEA could help. The reason for the lethargy is Superdrol supresses natural testosterone levels down to pratically nothing. It bothers me when I see stores constantly selling PH/PS's as 'test boosters' when in reality most PH/PS's decrease test. Unless of course your running test itself, and/or a precurser like 4AD Diol. Same reason injectable test is used as a 'base' to keep testosterone levels up and avoid lethargy while running something highly anabolic.
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    Prohormones IMO, should not be used by skinny dudes who want to get big.

    IMO, they should be taken by EXPERIENCED bodybuilders that have reached or are very close to reaching their natural limit. it's for people that want to be BIG after they already got big if you know what i mean.

    if you can still keep making good gains naturally, don't use these compounds!

    if you're a skinny/lenky guy, you can make changes in your DIET or training. trust me. good instincts with diet and training can come a long way in making good gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezman08 View Post
    Prohormones IMO, should not be used by skinny dudes who want to get big.

    IMO, they should be taken by EXPERIENCED bodybuilders that have reached or are very close to reaching their natural limit. it's for people that want to be BIG after they already got big if you know what i mean.

    if you can still keep making good gains naturally, don't use these compounds!

    if you're a skinny/lenky guy, you can make changes in your DIET or training. trust me. good instincts with diet and training can come a long way in making good gains.

    Yes and without good diet and training methodology all the steroids in the world are not going to help much. There is too many people out there giving the drugs way too much credit.
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    Yes, they are get more credit nowadays than diet, hard work and rest. But on the other end of the spectrum, if you look at people like Ronnie Coleman, Dennis Wolf, Victor Martinez or any of those guys, they did not get that way naturally, nor could they have achieved that without steroids. Yes, they could have made gains, but they would not have been as monumental as they were with AAS. Granted, they have practically perfect genetics, perfect diet, and extreme training, but even with all of that in the equation, without steroids they would not be as big as they are right now.

    As for the lethargy, DHEA helped me a lot, also eating more helped. Stuff like that is to be expected on a cycle like that. I can't say that I approve of the stacking or they way the cycle is formulated, but I'll help as much as I can bro. Also, I don't see why you should feel like you're in a haze or redness and swelling of the eyes. Sounds more like allergies, I've never heard of that reaction from ph's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian5225 View Post
    Yes, they are get more credit nowadays than diet, hard work and rest. But on the other end of the spectrum, if you look at people like Ronnie Coleman, Dennis Wolf, Victor Martinez or any of those guys, they did not get that way naturally, nor could they have achieved that without steroids. Yes, they could have made gains, but they would not have been as monumental as they were with AAS. Granted, they have practically perfect genetics, perfect diet, and extreme training, but even with all of that in the equation, without steroids they would not be as big as they are right now.
    In my opinion these are people with serious problems, they simply can't be heathy and they certainly don't look healthy (I guess it's in the eye of the beholder). Anyway in my mind they are people with serious drug (and image) problems and it's a shame that the sport has made them into what they are. Sad really. Yah you need a hek of a pile of drugs to get like the pros.

    All that really matters is that you make decent progress, we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with others it's all about how well we do ourselves. In my mind one of the reasons for doing this is for good health and to feel good about yourself. When it gets to the point where you put size ahead of health then I think it's time to re-evaluate your goals.

    Damn this thread has been moved into the steroids section, I'm in trouble now lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    In my opinion these are people with serious problems, they simply can't be heathy and they certainly don't look healthy (I guess it's in the eye of the beholder). Anyway in my mind they are people with serious drug (and image) problems and it's a shame that the sport has made them into what they are. Sad really. Yah you need a hek of a pile of drugs to get like the pros.

    All that really matters is that you make decent progress, we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with others it's all about how well we do ourselves. In my mind one of the reasons for doing this is for good health and to feel good about yourself. When it gets to the point where you put size ahead of health then I think it's time to re-evaluate your goals.

    Damn this thread has been moved into the steroids section, I'm in trouble now lol
    Although I do agree with much of what you said, I still feel that it's really what the individual wants. If a person wants to be absolutely massive, at the cost of some health (but at the same time, moderate doses of certain steroids has not shown a decrease in health in the long run. Accelerated problems that were already present, yes, but no major problems cause by the MODERATE use of AAS (Please realize I am not condoning abuse, which is quite prevalent in the pro's)) then that is a personal decision and the person should not be condemned for making that decision. Also, IMO the majority of all bodybuilders, whether competitive or not, has some sort of body image problem. And I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem. I know I have it, so my way of dealing with it is to constantly improve. I mean every single person in America has something that they need to control in their lives, whether its people close to them, cleanliness, vehicles, or certain hobbies. Everyone has something they're constantly trying to improve on. Mine and quite a number of other peoples just happens to be their physique. And unlike most people, it's not the "I wish I had a six pack" or "I wish I was more tone", it's different for most bodybuilders. It's more like "I wish I was absolutely massive, and at the same time striated" (I don't mean to profile anyone). Okay, I'm done with my rant lol, sorry if I offended anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Why indeed?

    Too many people use steroids to make up for a lack of knowledge or they just don't have what it takes to do it without..

    I read everyones weight height and age before i take what they say to heart. Also something someone told me a long time ago, if you are going to give training advice you should have your log posted, if not, what is the poing of listening to someone who may have no clue what they are doing.
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    It is easier to identify and try and attain the body of a guy thats on the front cover of magazines such as Mens Fitness and Mens Health than that of someone who is on the cover of Flex.I find it interesting too that here in the UK , sports supplement companies are now advertising in these magazines which perhaps suggests that bodybuilding in the true sense , is only for the minority , and attaining a swimmers physique or " beach body" is a more realistic goal
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    In my opinion these are people with serious problems, they simply can't be heathy and they certainly don't look healthy (I guess it's in the eye of the beholder). Anyway in my mind they are people with serious drug (and image) problems and it's a shame that the sport has made them into what they are. Sad really. Yah you need a hek of a pile of drugs to get like the pros.

    All that really matters is that you make decent progress, we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with others it's all about how well we do ourselves. In my mind one of the reasons for doing this is for good health and to feel good about yourself. When it gets to the point where you put size ahead of health then I think it's time to re-evaluate your goals.

    Damn this thread has been moved into the steroids section, I'm in trouble now lol
    The fact of the matter about those guys is that they are in a sport that pushes them to push themselves to the limit...I can't really see what THEY do as sad because it's their job which THEY choose to do. That's how they make their living, put clothes on their backs and food on the table...

    The same goes for sports athletes that cheat using enhancing drugs..it's the competition and the drive to be the best, better finishes guarantees better pay, recognition, and media time...it's all about the money in the end, which I can not blame them for that. I pushed to be the best at engineering that I could; at one point neglecting all loved ones because I had to work at programming and designing 18 hours a day to sharpen my craft. Now, im doing the same thing with this degree in sports fitness...im burying myself in it so that I can gain as much knowledge as possible while adding it to what I've already learned from years of trail and error.

    The only thing Im doing different now is that Im saving time for family but it is hard. When you want to be the best or tops in a certain area, it takes some of your life away to do it whether it's mental or physical.
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    I remember Arnold saying that he did not attend his father's funeral...you have got to be kidding me!
    But, I can relate to what he is saying...but that is seriously extreme, even for someone trying to do the extreme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    excuse my ignorance, do you mean blood glucose? can you explain more? i don't know too much about these things but as i get older they are more intriguing to me

    thanks
    There were studies on the increase of protein synthesis of certain steroids. I can not remember where it was but im sure there have been many, although, this was a peer reviewed report (about 20 pages long) on the matter but of course im sure there are many other peer reviewed reports; im guessing.

    The study showed that when an individual did not have a meal before taking a strong methylated steroid(can not remember which, so i won't speak on that), they felt very lethargic about 2 -4 hours later ... but when they would eat, whether it be complex carb, protein mix or what have you, they would feel "less" lethargic 2-4 hours later.

    BG levels were measured after taking the said steroid, I believe 1.5 hrs later (been a while since i read it, 7 years) and the bg levels were much lower than the pre screening before the pill had been administered. Then it was measured after eating and then taking the pill and of course, it was much higher.

    Now, I do not know for a fact that because bg levels were higher that it countered the effects of the steroid, but that's what they concluded since steroids have a strong effect on protein synthesis. Also, this test was done after the 4 or 5 day....

    Now, take all this with a grain of salt because its been 6 or 7 years since I read that report or even had a question like this discussed and i truly do not remember the complete reasoning and testing that occurred, but that is the meat of it, though Im sure I left some goodies out...

    Yes, blood glucose levels = BG
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    lol...How'd this thread turn into a soap opera about caring for others and steroid abuse?

    I do not even think that the op has even been back since asking the first question.
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    woah lotta responses, shouldnt u guys be at the gym lol!
    seriously I appreciate all the feedback alot! I gotta admit I saw that stack advertised somewhere and got it, it had the cycle posted for it and everything.... probably not the smartest thing i admit. im gonna cut back on that alot. my natural wieght is 155 Ive been training for about 2 yrs and (since I USED TO {when I was 155} take enough drugs for a horse) was a lil curious to see what that stuff did but after the sides i take it more serious. I guess im Just impaitent, after seeing my body transform with hard work over the last 2 yrs has become addictive. Thx 4 all feedback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian5225 View Post
    Although I do agree with much of what you said, I still feel that it's really what the individual wants. If a person wants to be absolutely massive, at the cost of some health (but at the same time, moderate doses of certain steroids has not shown a decrease in health in the long run. Accelerated problems that were already present, yes, but no major problems cause by the MODERATE use of AAS (Please realize I am not condoning abuse, which is quite prevalent in the pro's)) then that is a personal decision and the person should not be condemned for making that decision. Also, IMO the majority of all bodybuilders, whether competitive or not, has some sort of body image problem. And I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem. I know I have it, so my way of dealing with it is to constantly improve. I mean every single person in America has something that they need to control in their lives, whether its people close to them, cleanliness, vehicles, or certain hobbies. Everyone has something they're constantly trying to improve on. Mine and quite a number of other peoples just happens to be their physique. And unlike most people, it's not the "I wish I had a six pack" or "I wish I was more tone", it's different for most bodybuilders. It's more like "I wish I was absolutely massive, and at the same time striated" (I don't mean to profile anyone). Okay, I'm done with my rant lol, sorry if I offended anyone.
    None taken here, I thought it was a good post. Yah what people decide to do is there business. I competed without drugs but after it was over I did some PH's, I am not immune to temptation. I was 45 before I did anything though so I was very established by then. I don't plan on doing any more as at my age the health risks are not worth it. I have trained monsters without drugs as well, I plan on doing a log on training my son with nothing but protein powder as supplementation. He has not lifted for over a year do to a back injury playing football. I had him up to 275 at about 18% (he was a guard not a bodybuilder) running about 4.8 40. He had some amazing lifts at 18 squat and deads were in the mid to high 500's. Now he is working from scatch. I got him to 275 on protein alone now we are trying to keep him around 240 and lower his body fat significantly. I would say he's about 25% right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    At 26 years old why are you considering or taking prohormones.Your t levels should be at the top of the range . You should be wanting sex 24/7 .

    In my view you should let your body "normalise" and then consider supplements that add mass on a different route.

    The endocrine system is not to be messed about with unless you really know what you are doing By trying to solve one problem you can create another.

    Personally i only see prohormones or designer steroids being useful for the more mature guy whos t levels are falling through age.
    normal doses of these prohoromones have much higher androgenic and anabolic effects than any natural testosterone levels
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    There were studies on the increase of protein synthesis of certain steroids. I can not remember where it was but im sure there have been many, although, this was a peer reviewed report (about 20 pages long) on the matter but of course im sure there are many other peer reviewed reports; im guessing.

    The study showed that when an individual did not have a meal before taking a strong methylated steroid(can not remember which, so i won't speak on that), they felt very lethargic about 2 -4 hours later ... but when they would eat, whether it be complex carb, protein mix or what have you, they would feel "less" lethargic 2-4 hours later.

    BG levels were measured after taking the said steroid, I believe 1.5 hrs later (been a while since i read it, 7 years) and the bg levels were much lower than the pre screening before the pill had been administered. Then it was measured after eating and then taking the pill and of course, it was much higher.

    Now, I do not know for a fact that because bg levels were higher that it countered the effects of the steroid, but that's what they concluded since steroids have a strong effect on protein synthesis. Also, this test was done after the 4 or 5 day....

    Now, take all this with a grain of salt because its been 6 or 7 years since I read that report or even had a question like this discussed and i truly do not remember the complete reasoning and testing that occurred, but that is the meat of it, though Im sure I left some goodies out...

    Yes, blood glucose levels = BG
    Ecdysterone and other plant sterols increase protein synthesis too, but don't induce lethargy. Some ecdysteroids actually increase protein sythesis more than AAS, but of course lack all the other effects. Some slight lethargy can be attributed to lack of carbs, lack of protein, etc. But the more an AAS lowers the bodies test levels the more lethargic, like M1T & Superdrol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    Ecdysterone and other plant sterols increase protein synthesis too, but don't induce lethargy. Some ecdysteroids actually increase protein sythesis more than AAS, but of course lack all the other effects. Some slight lethargy can be attributed to lack of carbs, lack of protein, etc. But the more an AAS lowers the bodies test levels the more lethargic, like M1T & Superdrol.
    oh, yeah, i agree totally, that's why I posted both as possible reasons in my first 2 post...I look at the effects on natural t levels more so...although, i find the possibility of the increasing of p-synthesis being a factor very intriguing and would like to investigate it further, though, ecdy's havent worked much of anything with me personally...with an exception or two.

    For me it seemed as if i were able to combat the lethargy of m1t by the diet i was on when I compared m1t with certain diets vs m1t without certain foods. The study just seemed to hint at what I experienced ... but, yeah, im with you on your posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krogtaar View Post
    normal doses of these prohoromones have much higher androgenic and anabolic effects than any natural testosterone levels
    I think this is too much of a generalisation.As with steroids there are prohormones which dont convert to dht or estrogen and not androgenic.
    You really do need to take something that has some androgenic qualities to make gains of any significance , but then you are taking something with more risks.Any steroid that can be taken by women is relatively safe because its hardly any androgenic characteristics. Winstrol and Primobolan spring to mind (correct me if im wrong)

    It a pity really that steroids are not legal. There is so much research on these and theyve been tested time and time again on humans before ever being made available as a medicine to the general public. There is very little research on the latest prohormone and its effectiveness is not known until there is sufficient feedback from the consumer made on forums such as this.
  

  
 

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