Why do people cycle without a solid base?
- 06-23-2008, 07:39 PM
Why do people cycle without a solid base?
i see so many cycle logs with people who shouldnt even be considering roids yet. i could really care less, the only problem is that it gives inconsistant feedback to people who actually have a good base and are ready to cycle. the results from somebody with a horrible base will be completely different from someone who has a solid base. i'd say u shouldnt even be considering a cycle unless your around 10% bf or less.
it just makes me kinda angry when theres so many bias opinions on this site about certain ph's. the research information can be completely bogus based on some out of shape shmucks log whos been working out for a month. u gotta think twice before taking someones advice when they automatically say "use the search". well thats my rant
- 06-23-2008, 08:16 PM
You are making some good points. When i was younger,and before I had a computer I was one of those people. I had a co-worker of mine back then that got me into the stuff, but failed to tell me about PCT. Never kept any gains off of it.
I guess with the forums you've got to take the good with the bad. There is alot of good info. You just have to take the time, and have the patience to weed out the bad.
06-23-2008, 08:35 PM
i understand what your saying, but i disagree on the 10%bf part. what about powerlifters? the vast majority of them are well above 10%bf, so they shouldnt be allowed to cycle, even though the high bf% helps with there sport?
06-23-2008, 08:52 PM
never follow a log where someone doesn't give you a history (stats, workout, diet, cycle hist).
never follow a log where somone doesn't post photos.
if you follow those rules you can select the loggers that most match your personal goals.
cycling without a base or without research is a personal choice. to each, his own.
06-23-2008, 08:55 PM
I think its hilarious that people are willing to put a drug in their bodies when they have absolutely no idea about a real diet. or better yet, what that damn drug even does. I honestly could care less if someone has a base or not, if you are educated and know how to diet correctly and recovery correctly (pct) you’ll be fine
06-23-2008, 08:56 PM
I understand where you're coming from to a certain degree, but it is ultimately up to the useres discretion wether they are ready or not. And as for the 10%, that seems like an arbitrary # that you pulled out of thin air. Personally I would never cycle if i was above 10%, but I'm also not so naive as to think that everyones goals should be the same as mine. Not trying to be a **** in anyway whatsoever, just adding my take on it.
06-23-2008, 09:14 PM
A lot of guys cycle because it gives them state in the real world (good feelings, energy, good emotions).
06-23-2008, 09:39 PM
06-23-2008, 11:19 PM
People are inherently lazy and anxious, so the "why" part is pretty simple to answer.
I understand how these people frustrate more experienced users because we see how these guys are not setting up anything in the long run. Sometimes I think the forum should instate a certain standard concerning LBM/height ratio or lift maxes that should be attained before cycling, but that is unfair to those who use for more specialized reasons, and for those "hardgainers" and I mean the few who actually exist, not the hopeless individuals that lump themselves into that category.
I don't think it is worth getting frustrated over. People will get what's coming to them. For those anxious enough and stubborn enough to do things without thinking long term, sometimes the only way to learn is from their mistakes. Too bad for them.
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06-24-2008, 12:16 AM
06-24-2008, 12:42 AM
06-24-2008, 01:35 AM
06-24-2008, 09:45 AM
I agree to an extent, but I don't agree with the 10% bf. Like said above, powerlifters have a higher bf% but doesn't mean they aren't in shape.
But otherwise, I feel ya. I have seen some pics of people recently or ran a PH who look like they never ever stepped into a gym.
06-24-2008, 09:50 AM
06-24-2008, 10:11 AM
06-24-2008, 10:16 AM
06-24-2008, 12:14 PM
06-24-2008, 12:25 PM
I don't think anyone should touch anything hormonal until they are least 25 and/ or have 10 years training. But that is my opinion. I also think most people are much less advanced than they actually think.
06-24-2008, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE=jcp2;1411191]I don't think anyone should touch anything hormonal until they are least 25 and/ or have 10 years training. But that is my opinion. I also think most people are much less advanced than they actually think.[/QUOTE]
That is the truth. Most people I know that cycle do it for genetic reasons. They workout and workout and can't achieve the body type they are trying for.
Personally, I think I look weird in general just from lifting lol.
06-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Also leanness is relative. Some people have a "set point" (look it up) that if the go below that whether it be 8%, 12% or 16% there body goes into a deprivation mode and will not grow LBM as efficiently.
The reasons one does a cycle and the prerequisite for a cycle are absolutely arbitrary and have no baring on one leanness unless of course that there fat body composition is a result of the absence of training and nutrition experience.
Nothing personal. Just think about it for a minute.
06-24-2008, 06:55 PM
06-24-2008, 07:29 PM
so to say that they have bad genetics or don't know what the fuk they doing is way too general IMHO.
how long exactly have you been in gyms working out yourself?
06-24-2008, 07:32 PM
I see some of your points but I'd say it's obvious that you can't allow yourself to see things from others perspectives. there are tons of guys on here that are genetically gifted and don't have to fight to stay relatively lean. there are some that have to fight a constant battle to keep their body fat % low. (low is relative)
I agree that you should do what you can with the genetics you were given and that these types of products should be saved for pushing beyond your personal genetic potential. but that is different for every person!
I personally have to FIGHT to get/stay below 15% and if I slip up (even just a little) for just short period of time my BF will jump up in a heartbeat.
Iron Legion Rep
06-24-2008, 07:35 PM
If you understand what setpoint means you may better understand what I mean.
So I am having a conversation with you and making the assumption. But bodyfat is not an indicator of any status or level of maturity in lifting, nutrition or training experience other than that they happen to have extra body fat at or about their natural setpoint.
We are not talking about obese we are talking about body fat % relative to setpoint and the ability to gain lbm based on that setpoint. Physiologically if your are under your natural body fat setpoint you make it much much harder to gain LBM. Whether your setpoint happen to be 8% or 12% or 16%.
06-24-2008, 07:41 PM
some consider bodybuilding a sport but IMHO the majority consider it a lifestyle
i would say 100% that i have never meet a competitve BBer who didn't want to be lean.
All this talk about building a solid base first IMHO applys to a lot of supps in general, I believe that a noob should go as far as they can on just the basics like good nutrition, good form and adequate rest even before they think about using creatine. The further one can go without supplementing at the start, the more one has a better base to build from.
but that's just my humble opinion.
06-24-2008, 07:46 PM
06-24-2008, 07:49 PM
B5150, isn't it possible to change your bodies set point if you keep your body composition in a certain state for a period of time?
Iron Legion Rep
06-24-2008, 07:50 PM
06-24-2008, 08:51 PM
06-24-2008, 08:56 PM
so, you don't think genetics has any play in this?
and that all people have the same abilities when it comes to body composition?
Iron Legion Rep
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