Here's my stash, what are your thoughts on a recomp?

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    Here's my stash, what are your thoughts on a recomp?


    Goals: Gain 5 pounds lean mass, lose 5 pounds fat

    Cycle Hx: Halo, Phera

    I have several combinations of pct supplies to cover just about any combination of legal designers.

    Stash:
    Epi original label (1)
    Havoc (1)
    Furazadrol (2)
    Superdrol (2)
    Prostanazol (unfortunately only 1 bottle)
    Propadral (1)

    My thoughts are:

    1) Furaz to Havoc or Epi bridge

    2) In addition to option #1, I'd add prostanazol double dosed in the first 2 weeks and Propadrol double dosed for the duration.

    3) Havoc or Epi stacked with Furaz or prop with high dosage for a 3 week shorty

    4) Insert your idea here ... that's the whole point of this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Goals: Gain 5 pounds lean mass, lose 5 pounds fat

    Cycle Hx: Halo, Phera

    I have several combinations of pct supplies to cover just about any combination of legal designers.

    Stash:
    Epi original label (1)
    Havoc (1)
    Furazadrol (2)
    Superdrol (2)
    Prostanazol (unfortunately only 1 bottle)
    Propadral (1)

    My thoughts are:

    1) Furaz to Havoc or Epi bridge

    2) In addition to option #1, I'd add prostanazol double dosed in the first 2 weeks and Propadrol double dosed for the duration.

    3) Havoc or Epi stacked with Furaz or prop with high dosage for a 3 week shorty

    4) Insert your idea here ... that's the whole point of this thread
    I say get either the Havoc or the Superdrol in there. I would think stacking either one with furazadrol would be nice for a little recomper effect.

    My suggestion:

    Superdrol: 10,20,20,20 or Havoc: 20,30,40,40
    and
    Furazadrol: 200,200-250,250,250


    I would save the rest for a different cycle. I just may be doing a little variation with superdrol or havoc myself very soon.

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    Thanks for your input broski

    Do you think +5 lean mass and -5 fat is reasonable with a strict diet for Havoc/Furaz? I feel like I'm pretty good at manipulating my macros based on weekly skinfolds (I use a caliper so I know that recomp is occuring, rather than just guessing like most do).

    I have a few more Havoc questions for the expert rep but we'll just take it one issue at a time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Thanks for your input broski

    Do you think +5 lean mass and -5 fat is reasonable with a strict diet for Havoc/Furaz? I feel like I'm pretty good at manipulating my macros based on weekly skinfolds (I use a caliper so I know that recomp is occuring, rather than just guessing like most do).

    I have a few more Havoc questions for the expert rep but we'll just take it one issue at a time.
    I think it's very possible bro. It sounds like you're very in tune with setting up the macros which is key to this stacks success. I have some furazadrol on hand myself and am curious to use it.

    This stack just may be tough on the joints though. I'd definitley have a good amount of support in there. Maybe have some DHEA on hand to. I'm dying to try PP "Dermacrine" transdermal spray.

    If there is anything i can do to help, please let me know buddy.

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    With your experience already celc, I would suggest the Epi @ 30/40/40/50 and the Furaz @250/300/350/400 for a strong 4-Weeker! And I definitely think those goals of muscle gain and fat loss are attainable and keepable!!!! THE THUNDERGOD
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    With your experience already celc, I would suggest the Epi @ 30/40/40/50 and the Furaz @250/300/350/400 for a strong 4-Weeker! And I definitely think those goals of muscle gain and fat loss are attainable and keepable!!!! THE THUNDERGOD
    I really think stacked the Furaz at that dosing will be absolute murder on the joints, and won't offer any additonal benefits, only sides.

    The Havoc dosing looks solid though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    This stack just may be tough on the joints though. I'd definitley have a good amount of support in there. Maybe have some DHEA on hand to. I'm dying to try PP "Dermacrine" transdermal spray.
    We're on the same page so far.

    The two things I see as sides for this stack were joints and BP. For whatever lucky reason, I seem to be resiliant to BP issues so far on cycle. But, I will still preload my hawthorne berry and run it throughout the cycle.

    Past joint issues are under control since I've been training mostly submaximally with HST techniques on and off for the past 6 months. I also have plenty of cissus and Glucosacream on hand, just in case. Both have worked well for me in the past.

    Next question, I've seen a small group of people on other boards recommending short 3 weekers for epithios at a higher dosage, in the 40/50/60 range. What are your thoughts on this strategy in terms of post cycle recovery, libido, and likelihood for other sides that we haven't discussed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    With your experience already celc, I would suggest the Epi @ 30/40/40/50 and the Furaz @250/300/350/400 for a strong 4-Weeker! And I definitely think those goals of muscle gain and fat loss are attainable and keepable!!!! THE THUNDERGOD
    Thanks for the suggestions Thunda! It's always a party when you're involved!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    With your experience already celc, I would suggest the Epi @ 30/40/40/50 and the Furaz @250/300/350/400 for a strong 4-Weeker! And I definitely think those goals of muscle gain and fat loss are attainable and keepable!!!! THE THUNDERGOD

    Definitely agree here, I just ran epi (30/30/30/40) with furaz (200/200/200/250) as my first cycle and found it relatively low dose ( im ~205).

    My aim was a lean bulk, but got carried away with the PB and carbs and ended up eating around 4500 cals a day, and gained a lot of weight and fat, mild strength gains. I thing this stack is ideal for a cut/recomp as oppose to a bulk.

    The only sides I had was minor forehead acne towards the end of week 4, and 2 days into PCT its already going down. Joints and back pumps were not an issue, I had cissus and taurine but didnt use either, no lethargy, no noticeable testicular atrophy etc. hope this helps a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I really think stacked the Furaz at that dosing will be absolute murder on the joints, and won't offer any additonal benefits, only sides.

    The Havoc dosing looks solid though.

    Depends on the user really no? I did this stack slightly lower dose (see above post) with zero joint issues. However if I could do it again, I wouldnt stack them, I would have just ran havoc/epi at a higher dose. Maybe bridging could work
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    We're on the same page so far.

    The two things I see as sides for this stack were joints and BP. For whatever lucky reason, I seem to be resiliant to BP issues so far on cycle. But, I will still preload my hawthorne berry and run it throughout the cycle.

    Past joint issues are under control since I've been training mostly submaximally with HST techniques on and off for the past 6 months. I also have plenty of cissus and Glucosacream on hand, just in case. Both have worked well for me in the past.

    Next question, I've seen a small group of people on other boards recommending short 3 weekers for epithios at a higher dosage, in the 40/50/60 range. What are your thoughts on this strategy in terms of post cycle recovery, libido, and likelihood for other sides that we haven't discussed?
    I've read some of those. At anything above 40mg/day the shutdown will be more harsh. I think it can work really well for a quick 3 weeker at high dosing, but the sides and shutdown will be more noteable at that dosing (50-60mg)

    I think you'll get much better and retainable recomp effects with a 4 weeker. I think the 3 week power cycle is great if you wanted to bulk, but for what you want to do i'd go ahead with how we've set it up already.

    I've never had any issue with libido myself at 40mg and under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnick7 View Post
    Depends on the user really no? I did this stack slightly lower dose (see above post) with zero joint issues. However if I could do it again, I wouldnt stack them, I would have just ran havoc/epi at a higher dose. Maybe bridging could work
    Yes and No. I know that ThunderGod is a big guy, and it may work for him, but stacking the furaz with havoc is really up in the air on how bad it will effect joint issues.

    I honestly believe that furaz in the 200-250mg/day range stacked with havoc would yield the best recomp effects for MOST people, not everyone.

    Havoc at 30/30/40/40-50 would work fine with the furaz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Yes and No. I know that ThunderGod is a big guy, and it may work for him, but stacking the furaz with havoc is really up in the air on how bad it will effect joint issues.

    I honestly believe that furaz in the 200-250mg/day range stacked with havoc would yield the best recomp effects for MOST people, not everyone.

    Havoc at 30/30/40/40-50 would work fine with the furaz.

    Thats the dose I used for furaz, and had no issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnick7 View Post
    Thats the dose I used for furaz, and had no issues.
    Furaz over 250-300mg/day isn't going to offer any more benefits in the majority imo. My buddy who's 250+lbs ran it a few times in a stacker and said anything over 250mg/day didn't add anything noteable to the stack.

    I should get slow mun in here to see what he has to say about the furaz.

    Havoc dosing will vary greatly between a bulker and a recomper. The 40mg/day range would be max imo. 30,30,40,40 should work well for a cycle designed for that in most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Furaz over 250-300mg/day isn't going to offer any more benefits in the majority imo. My buddy who's 250+lbs ran it a few times in a stacker and said anything over 250mg/day didn't add anything noteable to the stack.

    I should get slow mun in here to see what he has to say about the furaz.

    Havoc dosing will vary greatly between a bulker and a recomper. The 40mg/day range would be max imo. 30,30,40,40 should work well for a cycle designed for that in most.

    Thats interesting. I see a lot of people running furaz up to 500-600mg. I would be interested as to what slow-mun would say.

    As for the havoc, I suppose it depends how the OP reacts to it. Some get enough out of it at 30mg, some need it at 40mg+. So for recomp and cut lower doses are needed then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnick7 View Post
    Thats interesting. I see a lot of people running furaz up to 500-600mg. I would be interested as to what slow-mun would say.

    As for the havoc, I suppose it depends how the OP reacts to it. Some get enough out of it at 30mg, some need it at 40mg+. So for recomp and cut lower doses are needed then?
    500-600mg/day? Interesting, but i think that's completely pointless and certainly not cost effective at that dose.

    For a recomp or cut 30-40mg/day should work best for MOST, not all.

    I base this all from my own personal experience as well as all the cumulative feedback we've received. I should add a section for bulk vs. recomper vs. cut in the havoc write-up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Yes and No. I know that ThunderGod is a big guy, and it may work for him, but stacking the furaz with havoc is really up in the air on how bad it will effect joint issues.

    I honestly believe that furaz in the 200-250mg/day range stacked with havoc would yield the best recomp effects for MOST people, not everyone.

    Havoc at 30/30/40/40-50 would work fine with the furaz.
    I think the reason that I have no apparent joint problems even with extremely heavy training, is that I take 20 grams of healthy efa's everyday. 12 grams of fish oil and 8 grams of flax seed oil. Everyday!! It works as an anti-inflammatory and it'll practically "lube" your joints!! THE THUNDERGOD
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnick7 View Post
    Thats interesting. I see a lot of people running furaz up to 500-600mg. I would be interested as to what slow-mun would say.

    As for the havoc, I suppose it depends how the OP reacts to it. Some get enough out of it at 30mg, some need it at 40mg+. So for recomp and cut lower doses are needed then?
    I actually haven't seen or heard of anyone running Furazadrol at 500-600mg a day. I wouldn't think that would be a very cost effective cycle, since it would take two bottles to get a week done. I think the OP would be just fine with an Epithio at 30-40mg and Furazadrol at 200mg for 4 weeks. I don't think a bridge is necessary and I wouldn't recommend it. On the flip side, if someone is pushing 275lbs+ and running Furazadrol at the upper end of dosing, then that would make sense IMHO. It just seems as if most of the regular posters around here are between 175-225lbs and needlessly assume that higher dosages equal better results, b/c they heard of someone else's success from doing so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I think the reason that I have no apparent joint problems even with extremely heavy training, is that I take 20 grams of healthy efa's everyday. 12 grams of fish oil and 8 grams of flax seed oil. Everyday!! It works as an anti-inflammatory and it'll practically "lube" your joints!! THE THUNDERGOD
    Yeah EFA's are definitely key. Tear it up TG!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    I actually haven't seen or heard of anyone running Furazadrol at 500-600mg a day. I wouldn't think that would be a very cost effective cycle, since it would take two bottles to get a week done. I think the OP would be just fine with an Epithio at 30-40mg and Furazadrol at 200mg for 4 weeks. I don't think a bridge is necessary and I wouldn't recommend it. On the flip side, if someone is pushing 275lbs+ and running Furazadrol at the upper end of dosing, then that would make sense IMHO. It just seems as if most of the regular posters around here are between 175-225lbs and needlessly assume that higher dosages equal better results, b/c they heard of someone else's success from doing so.
    I was just about to PM you. It would seem we're on the same page with the dosing. Thanks for the input buddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    I actually haven't seen or heard of anyone running Furazadrol at 500-600mg a day. I wouldn't think that would be a very cost effective cycle, since it would take two bottles to get a week done. I think the OP would be just fine with an Epithio at 30-40mg and Furazadrol at 200mg for 4 weeks. I don't think a bridge is necessary and I wouldn't recommend it. On the flip side, if someone is pushing 275lbs+ and running Furazadrol at the upper end of dosing, then that would make sense IMHO. It just seems as if most of the regular posters around here are between 175-225lbs and needlessly assume that higher dosages equal better results, b/c they heard of someone else's success from doing so.

    Interesting, I see 400mg+ being thrown around at bb a lot. I used 2 bottles for 4 weeks. I thought using like 8 8 bottles was excessive Thanks for the response
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnick7 View Post
    Interesting, I see 400mg+ being thrown around at bb a lot. I used 2 bottles for 4 weeks. I thought using like 8 8 bottles was excessive Thanks for the response
    You got your reasoning for inaccuracies once you mentioned the site the info. came from. JK, but I feel that is one of the worst sites to get any type of OTC hormonal cycle knowledge and advice from(non-hormonal is a different story entirely LN is the man). There are good amount of hormonal company reps there that are under 21 on there and have ran numberous cycles with what appears to be lackluster results. Its also a place that tries to makes posters feel guilty for using products of this nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    You got your reasoning for inaccuracies once you mentioned the site the info. came from. JK, but I feel that is one of the worst sites to get any type of OTC hormonal cycle knowledge and advice from(non-hormonal is a different story entirely LN is the man). There are good amount of hormonal company reps there that are under 21 on there and have ran numberous cycles with what appears to be lackluster results. Its also a place that tries to makes posters feel guilty for using products of this nature.

    tell me about it. I learn a bit off PA's posts there, and there are a few that definitely know their stuff, but in general people there over-emphasize things. They will jump down the throat of a 19-20 year old who has been training for 5 years with great diet/training etc, but a 22 year old who has been training for 4 months wont get grief because he is 21+ !!!! They also over-do PCT's there, you will see a low dose epi cycle, with nolva 40/40/20/20 plus an AI plus a test booster plus cortisol control, plus dhea and much more for PCT.
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    Good posts guys!
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    I actually haven't seen or heard of anyone running Furazadrol at 500-600mg a day. I wouldn't think that would be a very cost effective cycle, since it would take two bottles to get a week done. I think the OP would be just fine with an Epithio at 30-40mg and Furazadrol at 200mg for 4 weeks. I don't think a bridge is necessary and I wouldn't recommend it. On the flip side, if someone is pushing 275lbs+ and running Furazadrol at the upper end of dosing, then that would make sense IMHO. It just seems as if most of the regular posters around here are between 175-225lbs and needlessly assume that higher dosages equal better results, b/c they heard of someone else's success from doing so.
    Thanks for your input as always Sol! I had planned on contacting you eventually. But since you're here already, do you have any thoughts on feedback on Furaz frontloading? I've seen a few suggest that running it at 250-300mg for the first week to get it to kick in and then cruising at 150 or 200 for the duration of the stack. Thoughts?

    I guess I should mention stats since we're talking about dosing now... I'm 192 at 12% bodyfat. Macros are about 300/300/60. I'll start out pretty close to that but protein will get in the 350 to 400 range on cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Yeah EFA's are definitely key. Tear it up TG!
    WORD!! Will do. And I know you and Comrade Tripinski will do the same!! THE THUNDERGOD
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    For sho' brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Thanks for your input as always Sol! I had planned on contacting you eventually. But since you're here already, do you have any thoughts on feedback on Furaz frontloading? I've seen a few suggest that running it at 250-300mg for the first week to get it to kick in and then cruising at 150 or 200 for the duration of the stack. Thoughts?

    I guess I should mention stats since we're talking about dosing now... I'm 192 at 12% bodyfat. Macros are about 300/300/60. I'll start out pretty close to that but protein will get in the 350 to 400 range on cycle.
    Front loading may work..... I'm not going to knock it because I've never tried it. If you plan on doing it, then I'd be interested to see the results. On the flip side of the coin, it may prove to be an unnecessary experiment, b/c you'll still get great results without any risks by running it at the same dosage straight through. I'm all for the experiementation though. I like it when people try new things that may prove to be of benefit for others. I say front load.
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    Havoc 30/30/40/40
    Furaz 300/200/200/200

    2 bottles Furaz and 1 bottle Havoc should last 26 days.

    Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Havoc 30/30/40/40
    Furaz 300/200/200/200

    2 bottles Furaz and 1 bottle Havoc should last 26 days.

    Thoughts?
    It looks like a plan to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Havoc 30/30/40/40
    Furaz 300/200/200/200

    2 bottles Furaz and 1 bottle Havoc should last 26 days.

    Thoughts?

    I like the look of it. Log? Or if not update this thread every so often. I'm interested in the front loading
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Havoc 30/30/40/40
    Furaz 300/200/200/200

    2 bottles Furaz and 1 bottle Havoc should last 26 days.

    Thoughts?
    Sounds great, now roll with it.
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    thanks for the feedback fellas. I'm satisfied with the way this cycle looks. I'm gonna have a party on 4th of July weekend so I'll start preloading after that. I don't wanna drink on cycle. I enjoy logging my cycles so I'll probably throw up a thread when this starts.

    I may consider adding TD form/trione combo along the way. I like to play that one by ear. I won't use that in post cycle at all though.

    Post cycle plan:

    A) If my nuts feel big
    -PCS or Sustain per label for 4 weeks
    -Hypderdol 4/4/4/4/taper (not running inversely this time because I like the AI kick right away in post cycle)
    -Lean Extreme starting day 15
    -considering Powerful (I've lost faith in all test boosters, I get absolutely nothing out of them)

    B) If there's shrinkage, I'll use a typical Torem taper and the rest of the plan will probably be very similar
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    im rather interested to see how the front loading idea works out. if you only have 2 bottles of furaz i think your short 14 furaz caps if you run it like 300/200/200/200.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    thanks for the feedback fellas. I'm satisfied with the way this cycle looks. I'm gonna have a party on 4th of July weekend so I'll start preloading after that. I don't wanna drink on cycle. I enjoy logging my cycles so I'll probably throw up a thread when this starts.

    I may consider adding TD form/trione combo along the way. I like to play that one by ear. I won't use that in post cycle at all though.

    Post cycle plan:

    A) If my nuts feel big
    -PCS or Sustain per label for 4 weeks
    -Hypderdol 4/4/4/4/taper (not running inversely this time because I like the AI kick right away in post cycle)
    -Lean Extreme starting day 15
    -considering Powerful (I've lost faith in all test boosters, I get absolutely nothing out of them)

    B) If there's shrinkage, I'll use a typical Torem taper and the rest of the plan will probably be very similar
    This looks great friend! I don't use the TD Form/Trione combo for PCT anymore either. But on-cycle is a different matter. I just low-dose it while I'm on. Nothing more than 80 or 100 mg. per day. I know I don't have to tell you how beneficial this stuff is! lol And I definitely hear you about those weak-@ss test-boosters too! I only use Icariin, Testofen, and DHEA now. And they DO work!! Your cycle and PCT look very sound. Now you've got me excited wanting to see it all commence! I'll sub for sure!! THE THUNDERGOD
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    Heebs,
    let's do the math cause it's possible I made an error.

    Furaz 60 caps/bottle x 2 = 120caps
    wk 1: 7days x 6caps = 42
    wk 2: 7 x 4caps = 28
    wk 3: 28
    wk 4: 5days x 4caps = 20

    42+28+28+20 = 118caps in 26 days

    Havoc 90 caps x 1
    wk 1: 7 x 3 = 21
    wk 2: 21
    wk 3: 7 x 4 = 28
    wk4: 5 x 4 = 20

    21+21+28+20 = 90 in 26 days

    It's possible that you missed that it was a 26 day plan?

    I have a friend who is a Furaz addict and he recommend the front load. He's ran it 2-3 times with great success. I'm confident that it will be a successful experiment and it will be nice to have a log on record with this strategy.

    Thundergod, your enthusiasm is contagious! I'll be shooting you a pm so you rile the crowd up when I run my log

    TG just a side note, since form is so tough to come by, I'm going to save it for a Superdrol cycle next winter. I'm going to dose it orally to be absolutely positive I have even blood concentrations throughout the cycle to hopefully prevent nipple/gyno action
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    perfect man, yeah i missed the part about the cycle lasting 26 days. sounds like you really have it well planed out. liking the looks of it, good luck. slightly off topic, but i wonder if front loading would also work for halo because a lot of people say it also takes about 3 weeks to feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post

    Thundergod, your enthusiasm is contagious! I'll be shooting you a pm so you rile the crowd up when I run my log

    TG just a side note, since form is so tough to come by, I'm going to save it for a Superdrol cycle next winter. I'm going to dose it orally to be absolutely positive I have even blood concentrations throughout the cycle to hopefully prevent nipple/gyno action
    If you saw the need for an on-cycle AI, I can recommend ATD at a very low dose like 25 mg. EOD while on-cycle. But you won't need any AI this time around as you're running an Epithio anyway. That stuff is totally dry. And awesome too!! Great for increasing strength even on a cut! It may be that you have to switch over to 6-Bromo or ATD for your future PCT AI's like I did, while Form remains elusive. You can still find Trione though, right? I thought someone was telling me that even Trione is getting scarce now, and when you can find it the price has jumped significantly. What's up with the AI shortage all of a sudden? I keep hearing it's about the Olympics being held in China, but that doesn't really explain it for me. The Chinese make everything else also, from Super-Drol to Dianabol. So that explanation doesn't clarify anything for me. Good thing I'm such a hoarder!! I've got lots of all of the above in my sweet little stash!! THE THUNDERGOD
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    Quote Originally Posted by heebs10 View Post
    a lot of people say it also takes about 3 weeks to feel.
    Key word being FEEL. IMO that's broski lore. Bodyfat dropped and started adding lean mass in week 1 of a halo cycle last fall. Not many people use calipers so they just say a ph kicks in when they get the mood swing. I got the aggression/irritability from Halo somewhere around day 18 or 22 ish. I had already put on about 3 or 4 pounds of lean mass and dropped as much fat mass by then... scale never moved, so I'd never have know without skinfolds. On the flipside, I'm not discouraging higher halo dosages though.

    TG,

    Agreed. 6bromo is my personal AI of choice in pct.

    I can find both form and trione but you're right, they are getting pricey. I have a good 30 grams of trione but only about 10 left of form. I personally think the trione "out of stock" is simply a result of people who can't find formestane. So they choose trione to put in the TD carrier. I don't necessarily think trione is scarce, it's just playing substitute at the moment IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Key word being FEEL. IMO that's broski lore. Bodyfat dropped and started adding lean mass in week 1 of a halo cycle last fall. Not many people use calipers so they just say a ph kicks in when they get the mood swing. I got the aggression/irritability from Halo somewhere around day 18 or 22 ish. I had already put on about 3 or 4 pounds of lean mass and dropped as much fat mass by then... scale never moved, so I'd never have know without skinfolds. On the flipside, I'm not discouraging higher halo dosages though.
    i know what you mean about the bro-info. thanks for your input. by the way, what doses did you run your halo cycle at?
    VO2 Max = 58.75mL/kg/min
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