PH for Lean Mass

[jock19]

Morning all

I'm looking to add as much muscle as possible during a 4 week PH cycle (and leaning out at all will be a bonus).

I was planning on doing a 4 week straight (no pulsing) cycle of Epi. Then I started reading about pheraplex and m-drol. I'm not allowed to post a link to the m-drol I can get by Competitive Edge Labs and have no idea if it is any good.

Anyone prefer one to the other?

I know epi is milder. This'll be my 3rd PH cycle (previously done superdrol ng and 1 & 4 AD).

Currently weigh 180 and looking to get to 194.

Ta

 

[nephilim666]

epi or Hdrol stacked with propadrol or furzadrol , MAD lean gains

 

[jock19]

Cheers - sounds good. Have you tried this stack before? I was going to run Epi at 20/20/30/40 (depending on results). I'll add prop on top. Hopefully the icing on the cake.

Any thoughts on support supps? I was planning on taking Milk Thistle for my liver and some BCAAs.

PCT wise, I was going to take Nolva and X-Lean along with the Milk Thistle.

A pal suggested a dirty bulk on cycle (i.e. including sausages, Pizza etc) but I don't want to pork up so i'm not convinced. If anything I would like to lean out a little. The idea is to add 10+ pounds then cut.

 

[Ziquor]

Cheers - sounds good. Have you tried this stack before? I was going to run Epi at 20/20/30/40 (depending on results). I'll add prop on top. Hopefully the icing on the cake.

Any thoughts on support supps? I was planning on taking Milk Thistle for my liver and some BCAAs.

PCT wise, I was going to take Nolva and X-Lean along with the Milk Thistle.

A pal suggested a dirty bulk on cycle (i.e. including sausages, Pizza etc) but I don't want to pork up so i'm not convinced. If anything I would like to lean out a little. The idea is to add 10+ pounds then cut.

H-Drol from CEL or RPN's Havoc would be 2 of the best bets for lean mass with low sides. What's your age/cycle experience?

 

[Usf97j4x4]

H-Drol from CEL or RPN's Havoc would be 2 of the best bets for lean mass with low sides. What's your age/cycle experience?

I completely agree although Havoc seems to be a little more suppressive if ran for longer than 4 weeks. Both are great products.

I recommend you stay away from M-Drol until you have more experience, it is not for the unexperienced.

 

[jock19]

Im 26 on Friday.

Experience wise, I have tried superdrol ng then 1 AD with 4 AD. This'll be my third cycle. I have a tub of m1t but I am not sure about running that (yet) - it can still be bought in the shops here.

I can't source Havoc (in the UK) but I can get IBE Epi which is much of a muchness. I have done the most research so far into epi so I was planning on pursuing that route having seen some pretty good reviews. Haven't heard of stacking it with propadrol before though.

I decided not to run m-drol for the same reasons as m1t. I will try my arm at the less harsh alternatives first especially since Epi seems to be an effective product.

 

[dsade]

A TUB of M1T???

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Im 26 on Friday.

Experience wise, I have tried superdrol ng then 1 AD with 4 AD. This'll be my third cycle. I have a tub of m1t but I am not sure about running that (yet).

I can't source Havoc (in the UK) but I can get IBE Epi which is much of a muchness. Also found Propradrol.

Negative on the propadrol.. a decent stacker but worthless standalone.

Can you find EST's Methyl-E?

M-Drol is comparable with M1T although M1T is rougher..

 

[tnick7]

Im 26 on Friday.

Experience wise, I have tried superdrol ng then 1 AD with 4 AD. This'll be my third cycle. I have a tub of m1t but I am not sure about running that (yet).

I can't source Havoc (in the UK) but I can get IBE Epi which is much of a muchness. Also found Propradrol.

No offence, but your 6ft and 180 and on your 3rd cycle, definitely avoid M1T. What is your bf%

 

[jock19]

A TUB of M1T???

Yeah, whatever it normally comes in - 90 caps.

 

[dsade]

Yeah, whatever it normally comes in - 90 caps.

Gotcha...I'm thinking like a giant tub of Xtend with a scooper.

 

[jock19]

No offence, but your 6ft and 180 and on your 3rd cycle, definitely avoid M1T. What is your bf%

None taken! I heard good things about it but I am inclined to leave it for now when other ph's will do the trick. No need to jump straight to the ones with the most severe sides without exploring other avenues first.

 

[jock19]

Gotcha...I'm thinking like a giant tub of Xtend with a scooper.

My bad - couldn't think of a better word!

 

[tnick7]

None taken! I heard good things about it but I am inclined to leave it for now when other ph's will do the trick. No need to jump straight to the ones with the most severe sides without exploring other avenues first.

Well Im also from the UK, so you could look into transdermals if you can find them legitimately. If not Havoc can be found or ordered form US. Other options hdrol, maybe 3ad. Also in the UK there are no legal issues with running Test, unless pinning is not an option for you YET (as for me!)

 

[jock19]

BF is about 12 - 13%.

Was about 9% pre bulking. Been bulking sonce January. The idea is to get as big as I want then to cut. As opposed to bulk/cut/bulk etc. Not that i'll ever bee happy.

Ideally aiming for a lean 196 pounds.

 

[Ziquor]

Technically this'd be your 2nd cycle since superdrol-ng is prasterone (dhea). Unless you ran the hell outta it.

 

[jock19]

Well Im also from the UK, so you could look into transdermals if you can find them legitimately. If not Havoc can be found or ordered form US. Other options hdrol, maybe 3ad. Also in the UK there are no legal issues with running Test, unless pinning is not an option for you YET (as for me!)

I tend to order most things from the web so that limits things to an extent. There is a site that stocks both h-rol and 3 ad. Are they are better option to Epi?

I don't want to go down that route. Not for the forseeable future anyway!

 

[jock19]

Negative on the propadrol.. a decent stacker but worthless standalone.

Can you find EST's Methyl-E?

M-Drol is comparable with M1T although M1T is rougher..

Yeah - I can get Methyl-E but it is out of stock.

 

[Ziquor]

I tend to order most things from the web so that limits things to an extent. There is a site that stocks both h-rol and 3 ad. Are they are better option to Epi?

I don't want to go down that route. Not for the forseeable future anyway!

H-Drol's great, jury's still out on 3-AD IMO. If you already have access to the Epi, it's probably your best bet especially with the goals you have.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I tend to order most things from the web so that limits things to an extent. There is a site that stocks both h-rol and 3 ad. Are they are better option to Epi?

I don't want to go down that route. Not for the forseeable future anyway!

I prefer H-Drol over every other PH i've tried... including M-Drol. The lean mass gains and reduction in body fat on top of the virtually non-existant sites makes it a favorite in my book. Epi is good too though, I just seem to respond to H-Drol better.

As for 3AD I won't be running it until more logs are out... I definitely wouldn't run it solo.

 

[tnick7]

I tend to order most things from the web so that limits things to an extent. There is a site that stocks both h-rol and 3 ad. Are they are better option to Epi?

I don't want to go down that route. Not for the forseeable future anyway!

Most users will say epi is better than both and hdrol better than 3ad i would guess, but i am on epi now just started my 3rd week and havent noticed anything yet. I havent used hdrol or 3ad though

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Most users will say epi is better than both and hdrol better than 3ad i would guess, but i am on epi now just started my 3rd week and havent noticed anything yet. I havent used hdrol or 3ad though

There is a lot of play on the dosages of Epi.. many say the sweet spot is around 40-60 mg ED.

My problem with Epi is it can become really suppressive after the typical 4 week stint. Lot of itchy nip problems, etc.. i've not seen that on H-Drol.

Also, I hate that Epi is marketed as an anti-estrogen. This is reckless marketing and downright dangerous.

 

[Ziquor]

Most users will say epi is better than both and hdrol better than 3ad i would guess, but i am on epi now just started my 3rd week and havent noticed anything yet. I havent used hdrol or 3ad though

3rd week and you haven't seen anything? That's not good with an epithio. What's your goals, diet, etc. like?

 

[tnick7]

There is a lot of play on the dosages of Epi.. many say the sweet spot is around 40-60 mg ED.

My problem with Epi is it can become really suppressive after the typical 4 week stint. Lot of itchy nip problems, etc.. i've not seen that on H-Drol.

Also, I hate that Epi is marketed as an anti-estrogen. This is reckless marketing and downright dangerous.

Yeah thinking the same. Im on 30mg ED and have been since day 1, but will be bumping to 40mg for the last week. I would bump it now but i dont have enough pills left:frustrate:

 

[Ziquor]

There is a lot of play on the dosages of Epi.. many say the sweet spot is around 40-60 mg ED.

My problem with Epi is it can become really suppressive after the typical 4 week stint. Lot of itchy nip problems, etc.. i've not seen that on H-Drol.

Also, I hate that Epi is marketed as an anti-estrogen. This is reckless marketing and downright dangerous.

I seen some info PA posted about the AI properties and how they were true to the regular unmethylated mepitiostane but once the 17a methyl group's added he felt it was more so a straight AAS opposed to steroidal AI.

 

[jock19]

So it is a toss up between Epi and h-drol? I get the feeling I will be trying both at some point!

Will look into h-drol some more.

 

[tnick7]

3rd week and you haven't seen anything? That's not good with an epithio. What's your goals, diet, etc. like?

I was eating around 4000-4500cals, but dropped it to about 3500cals (330g/330g/90g)because i was gaining fat only. I'm on a lean bulk, my maintenance is around 2700 cals, weigh 196. running epi 30/30/30/40 with furaz 150/200/200/250, first cycle, training 5 days a week (chest/back/legs/shoulders/arms) This is the first day of week 3.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I seen some info PA posted about the AI properties and how they were true to the regular unmethylated mepitiostane but once the 17a methyl group's added he felt it was more so a straight AAS opposed to steroidal AI.

This is true IMO. I dont like to give my money to companies that market Epi as some gyno-cure all...

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I was eating around 4000-4500cals, but dropped it to about 3500cals (330g/330g/90g)because i was gaining fat only. I'm on a lean bulk, my maintenance is around 2700 cals, weigh 196. running epi 30/30/30/40 with furaz 150/200/200/250, first cycle, training 5 days a week (chest/back/legs/shoulders/arms) This is the first day of week 3.

I would run the Epi 30/40/40/50/60/60 if it were me.

I wouldn't have chosen Epi on a bulker but thats me. GL

 

[Ziquor]

I was eating around 4000-4500cals, but dropped it to about 3500cals (330g/330g/90g)because i was gaining fat only. I'm on a lean bulk, my maintenance is around 2700 cals, weigh 196. running epi 30/30/30/40 with furaz 150/200/200/250, first cycle, training 5 days a week (chest/back/legs/shoulders/arms) This is the first day of week 3.

That's tough. With that set-up everything looks pretty on. Seems cals at 3500 is a bit lower for an hormonal run but everything else looks good.

 

[tnick7]

That's tough. With that set-up everything looks pretty on. Seems cals at 3500 is a bit lower for an hormonal run but everything else looks good.

Tell me about it!! I will try upping the cals on the last week again, but I gain weight real easy, and usually I'm able to bulk on 3000+cals. I gained weight in the first two weeks but just look visibly fatter, no strength gains, no pumps, so just decided to lower the cals. I am considering buying another bottle and extending the epi for another week or 2 @ 40/40-50

 

[Ziquor]

Tell me about it!! I will try upping the cals on the last week again, but I gain weight real easy, and usually I'm able to bulk on 3000+cals. I gained weight in the first two weeks but just look visibly fatter, no strength gains, no pumps, so just decided to lower the cals. I am considering buying another bottle and extending the epi for another week or 2 @ 40/40-50

Usually with the increased protein systhesis and glycogen usage you can eat a lot more calories over maintenence ON a cycle - and still gain mostly all mass.

 

[tnick7]

Usually with the increased protein systhesis and glycogen usage you can eat a lot more calories over maintenence ON a cycle - and still gain mostly all mass.

this is what i thought.....

I will hold it out for the 4 weeks, then if I still see nothing by then contact IBE, even though I spoke to an IBE rep prior to starting and he said they have the CoA's for the batch im running.

Is it possible someone doesnt respond at all to epithios or to more mild steroids full stop????

 

[Ziquor]

this is what i thought.....

I will hold it out for the 4 weeks, then if I still see nothing by then contact IBE, even though I spoke to an IBE rep prior to starting and he said they have the CoA's for the batch im running.

Is it possible someone doesnt respond at all to epithios or to more mild steroids full stop????

Definitely. It's possible to see non-responders for nearly anything.

 

[tnick7]

Definitely. It's possible to see non-responders for nearly anything.

Lol, its something i always was worried about, because although this is my first time using hormonal products, i seem to have a high tolerance, to lots of things such as alcohol, and seem to not respond much at all to stims such as ritalin, adderall etc so i always had a worry about it. Well all I can do i wait til the 4 weeks are over, if nothing then next time maybe SD 10/10/10 !!!