Can you run Arimidex and proviron together?

[INFLUENCER]

Wanted to use the proviron during the cycle to help lower shgb, and run adex EOD at .5 mg for keeping bloat and estrogen down a little. But is it ok to run them both during a test, deca, var, HGH cycle?

 

[Lean1038]

Wanted to use the proviron during the cycle to help lower shgb, and run adex EOD at .5 mg for keeping bloat and estrogen down a little. But is it ok to run them both during a test, deca, var, HGH cycle?

Bump for this! :food:

 

[mj34]

Wanted to use the proviron during the cycle to help lower shgb, and run adex EOD at .5 mg for keeping bloat and estrogen down a little. But is it ok to run them both during a test, deca, var, HGH cycle?

Yes I recommend it as Proviron is a great compound for many reasons. For one, it helps bound Test making more available for your body to use. I would start just running Proviron@50mgsED and then just keep the adex handy and if bloat gets bad then add it on in. Also, whenever I run a nandrolone such as Deca, Proviron really helps keep the libido going strong. There is no other compound in the world that makes me so damn horny, proviron rocks !~

 

[crazyfool405]

i think running the 2 together is pointless,

Divanex can bind to SHBG, and Adex will help with the bloat, as far as libido

Icariin, aspire 36, viagra, cialis ect.

 

[bigzach1234]

i hear countless ppl reccomend using prov on cycle as it helps to improve gains on cycle..now i know adex is better to use to elimnate estro... but if i could only use one compound on cycle would one reccomend prov?... or it would be better to use prov with adex on hand just in case it is needed?... why not use prov and just have nolva on hand instead?

 

[mj34]

i think running the 2 together is pointless,

Divanex can bind to SHBG, and Adex will help with the bloat, as far as libido

Icariin, aspire 36, viagra, cialis ect.

Its not pointless. First off, you should start out with the Proviron, if it works to control bloat then dont add in adex. If bloat gets bad run Adex at .5mgs.
Second, Viagra and Cialis will not increase your sex drive, it will just make you hard; however; if you dont have a libido then forget about it. Proviron on the other hand actually increases your libido INTENSLY. Have you ever had Deca ****, if you had then you should now about this. If you do have a libido but cant get wood, then Cialis and Viagra are great.

Things to keep on hand: Cialis or Viagra, Adex, Nolva, and Proviron.

 

[mj34]

Its not pointless. First off, you should start out with the Proviron, if it works to control bloat then dont add in adex. If bloat gets bad run Adex at .5mgs.
Second, Viagra and Cialis will not increase your sex drive, it will just make you hard; however; if you dont have a libido then forget about it. Proviron on the other hand actually increases your libido INTENSLY. Have you ever had Deca ****, if you had then you should now about this. If you do have a libido but cant get wood, then Cialis and Viagra are great.

Things to keep on hand: Cialis or Viagra, Adex, Nolva, and Proviron.

EDIT* On the Adex part, I didnt put .5mgs EOD

 

[mj34]

i hear countless ppl reccomend using prov on cycle as it helps to improve gains on cycle..now i know adex is better to use to elimnate estro... but if i could only use one compound on cycle would one reccomend prov?... or it would be better to use prov with adex on hand just in case it is needed?... why not use prov and just have nolva on hand instead?

Man I have been talking about Proviron so much lately, one might think I work for Schering.lol. Anyways, Proviron frees up bound Test making more Test available as well as it makes the other compounds work better as well. Next, Proviron really helps out with muscle hardness and definition. Third, its truly a godsend for your sex drive as it enhances your libido so much. Fourth, it does work to help control estro-related sides but not as good as Adex would. Fifth, they are not pointless to run together then do different things, in the case of Proviron in helps in many aspects of BB. Fifth, being that it is a pretty androgenic compound, it really helps with aggression in the gym and if you dont have many highly androgenic compounds in your cycle then it works greatly to your advantage. Basically Proviron works okay at estrogen control and in my case I dont get many estro sides except for when I run Dbol so it works great for people like me. Others who really sensitive to estrogen obviously wil need a strong AI like Adex. Proviron isn't as hard on the body as Adex, Adex can also drastically reduce your gains because it takes care of the estrogen, so try to use the least possible dose, I prefer .5mgs EOD which isnt to bad and a good dose for Proviron is 50mgsED. Your gains will still occur but they will be leaner and less if too much is used. Arimidex also impacts your HDL to LDL ratio, so it isn;t that great on your cholesterol levels. Another bad aspect of Adex is the cost of it. I would always try the Proviron first but if your running compounds that make you retain lots of water, make sure to keep Adex on hand because if for some reason Proviron doesn't do the trick and the bloat gets bad, you are going to be very miserable, trust me on this I have had first hand experience and it sucks bad.
So to answer your question start out with the Proviron at 50mgs ED and run it through the entire cycle. If bloat gets bad, do not stop Proviron because besides estro-control it has many uses as I mentioned above, just add in the adex at ,5mgs EOD and I think you will be fine. Always try a low dose with Adex and then go from there if you really have to.

 

[crazyfool405]

i dont think it will improve gains,

although it binds to SHBG and frees up more test, its also binds to the AR with no activity, therefore less Testosterone is binding to the AR which would mean not as much gains.

high estrogen causes libido problems controling it with adex (whichis lightyears ahead of proviron in this way) can defiently help and much better then proviron, if you use proviron use it every so often not everyday, and certainly not instead of.

 

[Lean1038]

i dont think it will improve gains,

although it binds to SHBG and frees up more test, its also binds to the AR with no activity, therefore less Testosterone is binding to the AR which would mean not as much gains.

high estrogen causes libido problems controling it with adex (whichis lightyears ahead of proviron in this way) can defiently help and much better then proviron, if you use proviron use it every so often not everyday, and certainly not instead of.

This is quite the showdown guys. lol

We need more opinions to settle this once and for all.

 

[mj34]

i dont think it will improve gains,

although it binds to SHBG and frees up more test, its also binds to the AR with no activity, therefore less Testosterone is binding to the AR which would mean not as much gains.

high estrogen causes libido problems controling it with adex (whichis lightyears ahead of proviron in this way) can defiently help and much better then proviron, if you use proviron use it every so often not everyday, and certainly not instead of.

You know what happens when u cripple estrogen to much, it causes libido problems as well. Before they even Adex available Proviron was used with great success. Its obvious that Adex is stronger in controlling estrogen but Proviron is effective and much less harsh on the body, so why not use the lesser of 2 evils, so to speak. I dont know where you got your ideas about Proviron not freeing up Test but it does and it makes other steroids work more effectivly. There are a lot of compounds that do not bind to the AR very well, yet despite this there are non-mediated AR ways in which these anabolics such as Dbol work and they do so very effectively. Have you ever took Proviron, or do you just write it off because it has little to no anabolic properties?

Dont take it from me, although i have a lot of personal experience with this compound and it would be nice if we had some seasoned vets to chime in here but anyways you can argue with the facts if you like.

"Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels".

"The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor".

"Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat".

"Lastly proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse".

 

[mj34]

i dont think it will improve gains,

although it binds to SHBG and frees up more test, its also binds to the AR with no activity, therefore less Testosterone is binding to the AR which would mean not as much gains.

high estrogen causes libido problems controling it with adex (whichis lightyears ahead of proviron in this way) can defiently help and much better then proviron, if you use proviron use it every so often not everyday, and certainly not instead of.

As far as the AR mediation is concerned, it explains here how Proviron actually works to enhance other anabolics:

"The best thing to stack it with is testosterone of course. Its most easily bound to SHBG and albumin, and deactivated for up to 98%. Since the DHT can compete for these structures with higher affinity it would naturally lead to a higher yield of whatever testosterone product you stacked it with. Since DHT levels are notably higher now there is also more stimulation of the androgen receptor causing more strength gains, and because of its affinity for aromatase the overall estrogen level decreases as well. This has as a result that gains are leaner, and once again the overall testosterone yield is increased as less I converted at the aromatase enzyme".

 

[mj34]

In the end, to each is own. If a compound works for you great, if it doesn't then you move along. Not everyone will respond the same way as some people get bad effects from certan compounds. EQ affects me negatively even though I think it is a great compound, my body tends to disagree. All I say is to give it a shot and in most cases you will see what Proviron has to offer and as far as libido enhancement goes, I do not think there is a better compound on planet Earth that exists. Proviron and Cialis=Pornstar Mode ( that I swear by) this one definite effect u can feel and even without the cialis the libido enhancement is very intense to say the least).:thumbsup:

 

[crazyfool405]

You know what happens when u cripple estrogen to much, it causes libido problems as well. Before they even Adex available Proviron was used with great success. Its obvious that Adex is stronger in controlling estrogen but Proviron is effective and much less harsh on the body, so why not use the lesser of 2 evils, so to speak. I dont know where you got your ideas about Proviron not freeing up Test but it does and it makes other steroids work more effectivly. There are a lot of compounds that do not bind to the AR very well, yet despite this there are non-mediated AR ways in which these anabolics such as Dbol work and they do so very effectively. Have you ever took Proviron, or do you just write it off because it has little to no anabolic properties?

Dont take it from me, although i have a lot of personal experience with this compound and it would be nice if we had some seasoned vets to chime in here but anyways you can argue with the facts if you like.

"Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels".

"The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor".

"Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat".

"Lastly proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse".

i am very well aware of these uses, however, when too much estrogen is inhibited you simply dose e3d, instead of EOD

as far as estrogen control adex is a million times better.

as far as enhancing testosterone, i really dont think it will, testosterone will bind to the AR and have both androgenic and anabolic properties, the proviron will just bind to the AR possibly causing less ARs for testosterone to bind to, and being that it has no muscle building properties it would make it usless IMO.

and as far as being prescribed to pateints, dude its used so much less now in clinical practice then others like clomid hCG and even Adex (adex is shown to increase LH and FSH)

proviron had its time back in the day, but now theres no use for it.


ill wait for holy to chime in on this one because ive stated my opinion. and you have staqted yours along with qoutes from wherever. holy knows his **** as well, so well wait for him

 

[mj34]

i dont think it will improve gains,

although it binds to SHBG and frees up more test, its also binds to the AR with no activity, therefore less Testosterone is binding to the AR which would mean not as much gains.

high estrogen causes libido problems controling it with adex (whichis lightyears ahead of proviron in this way) can defiently help and much better then proviron, if you use proviron use it every so often not everyday, and certainly not instead of.

I missed your last quote. Are you saying that while on cycle or even during PCT which Proviron is also used, not to use it ED? This makes no sense, its a compound that you use ED the half-life is only 12 hours. So should I be taking Anavar EOD because the half-life is 9-10 hrs? I hope this was a misquote because Proviron is normally ran for 10-12 weeks and can be safely used in longer cycles.

 

[mj34]

i am very well aware of these uses, however, when too much estrogen is inhibited you simply dose e3d, instead of EOD

as far as estrogen control adex is a million times better.

as far as enhancing testosterone, i really dont think it will, testosterone will bind to the AR and have both androgenic and anabolic properties, the proviron will just bind to the AR possibly causing less ARs for testosterone to bind to, and being that it has no muscle building properties it would make it usless IMO.

and as far as being prescribed to pateints, dude its used so much less now in clinical practice then others like clomid hCG and even Adex (adex is shown to increase LH and FSH)

proviron had its time back in the day, but now theres no use for it.


ill wait for holy to chime in on this one because ive stated my opinion. and you have staqted yours along with qoutes from wherever. holy knows his **** as well, so well wait for him

Just the libido enhancement that it gives is worth its weight in gold and I never ever mentioned once that Proviron was more effective than Adex in controlling estrgen, that would be very ignorant on my part. Proviron is still widely used and offers a lot.

 

[crazyfool405]

I missed your last quote. Are you saying that while on cycle or even during PCT which Proviron is also used, not to use it ED? This makes no sense, its a compound that you use ED the half-life is only 12 hours. So should I be taking Anavar EOD because the half-life is 9-10 hrs? I hope this was a misquote because Proviron is normally ran for 10-12 weeks and can be safely used in longer cycles.

thats not why i said it in relation to half life, i said it just in case you need a boost and it works for you

half life wasnt anything i was adressing in that, i said use it every so often (only if sexual sides are apparent and so it wont interfere with growth)

proviron is simply obsolete.

 

[Lean1038]

TTT for Holy and other Veteran's experiences with the both compounds.

 

[holyintellect]

First off, I think you guys are arguing two seperate things....It looks to me like crazy is saying adex is more efficient at controlling estrogen, and mj is saying to use it for other reasons aside from estrogen control.......(maybe Im wrong in that?)

My quick opinion is this....arimidex is far superior for estrogen control....in fact, as Ive said a hundred times before, I think arimidex is the absolute best choice when it comes to controlling estrogen...it works well, and not TOO well, which as mj said can cause additional libido related problems.

As far as proviron goes, I am well aware of what the literature says, but I gotta say that Ive used it in off season prep and contest prep....with both men and women....it has never done anything to note in the men Ive worked with....there were a few women who did well on it, as the androgenic effect is very subtle.....I just never did see real life results like the results on paper indicate.....

holy

 

[mj34]

First off, I think you guys are arguing two seperate things....It looks to me like crazy is saying adex is more efficient at controlling estrogen, and mj is saying to use it for other reasons aside from estrogen control.......(maybe Im wrong in that?)

My quick opinion is this....arimidex is far superior for estrogen control....in fact, as Ive said a hundred times before, I think arimidex is the absolute best choice when it comes to controlling estrogen...it works well, and not TOO well, which as mj said can cause additional libido related problems.

As far as proviron goes, I am well aware of what the literature says, but I gotta say that Ive used it in off season prep and contest prep....with both men and women....it has never done anything to note in the men Ive worked with....there were a few women who did well on it, as the androgenic effect is very subtle.....I just never did see real life results like the results on paper indicate.....

holy

No, I'm agreeing that Adex is much better at estrogen control because after all it is a true AI. Proviron on the other hand just like Masteron only has anti-e properties. IMPE, i dont think for me anyways and several others that I know and at well respected boards believe that Proviron is obsolete. I think its number one as far as enhancing libido and that there is my priamry concern with it. For me it works well as an anti-e because I'm not sensitive to gyno. Dbol is the only compound that I have had to use Adex with. Furthermore, everyone responds differently to different compounds, so what may be good for one may not work for another. I have seen cases where adex didnt work, so guy had to use aromasin, case in point not everyone will respond the same way. I think its bullshit to say that Provrion is washed up and no good. I base on my own personal exp, but I provided facts as well and I only brought up points that I know about. if you go to outlaw or professional you will see they still use Proviron and not just because of its anti-e properties it has plenty of significant uses. **** doesnt everyone want to have an intense libido, I run very long cycles and sometimes my libido drops and Proviron undoubtly picks it up. ALSO, I NEVER ONCE SAID PROVIRON WAS BETTER THAN ADEX IN TERMS OF ESTRO-CONTROL. He may be arguing things doesn't clearly read my posts, idk. I'm not going argue with anyone about this, if you dont like it ****ing great, but dont tell noobs that it doesn't have a place in BB. ALL I WAS INDICATING TO OTHERS WAS THAT YEAH TRY PROVIRON FIRST AS IT HAS WORKED FOR ME AND PLENTY OF OTHERS, GO TO OUTLAW AND LOOK ON THERE AND SEE HOW MUCH POSTIVIE FEEDBACK U GET REAGRDING PROVIRON. I ALSO MENTIONED KEEP ADEX ON HAND BECAUSE YOU MAY NEED AND PROVIRON MAY NOT BE EQUIPPED FOR YOU, IN THAT SENSE. ITS BETTER TO USE SOMETHING MORE MILDER THAT DOESNT WREAK HAVOC ON YOUR LIPIDS AND IF PROVIRON DOES THE TRICK THATS GREAT MAN!!

 

[mj34]

Just so you know, I'm currently running Adex at.5mgs EOD and I believe that I mentioned this above and it works great at controlling Dbol bloat, never a dispute with that. However, in the past I ran Proviron at 75mgs ED and it worked on the bloat from Dbol as well.

 

[holyintellect]

No, I'm agreeing that Adex is much better at estrogen control because after all it is a true AI. Proviron on the other hand just like Masteron only has anti-e properties. IMPE, i dont think for me anyways and several others that I know and at well respected boards believe that Proviron is obsolete. I think its number one as far as enhancing libido and that there is my priamry concern with it. For me it works well as an anti-e because I'm not sensitive to gyno. Dbol is the only compound that I have had to use Adex with. Furthermore, everyone responds differently to different compounds, so what may be good for one may not work for another. I have seen cases where adex didnt work, so guy had to use aromasin, case in point not everyone will respond the same way. I think its bullshit to say that Provrion is washed up and no good. I base on my own personal exp, but I provided facts as well and I only brought up points that I know about. if you go to outlaw or professional you will see they still use Proviron and not just because of its anti-e properties it has plenty of significant uses. **** doesnt everyone want to have an intense libido, I run very long cycles and sometimes my libido drops and Proviron undoubtly picks it up. ALSO, I NEVER ONCE SAID PROVIRON WAS BETTER THAN ADEX IN TERMS OF ESTRO-CONTROL. He may be arguing things doesn't clearly read my posts, idk. I'm not going argue with anyone about this, if you dont like it ****ing great, but dont tell noobs that it doesn't have a place in BB. ALL I WAS INDICATING TO OTHERS WAS THAT YEAH TRY PROVIRON FIRST AS IT HAS WORKED FOR ME AND PLENTY OF OTHERS, GO TO OUTLAW AND LOOK ON THERE AND SEE HOW MUCH POSTIVIE FEEDBACK U GET REAGRDING PROVIRON. I ALSO MENTIONED KEEP ADEX ON HAND BECAUSE YOU MAY NEED AND PROVIRON MAY NOT BE EQUIPPED FOR YOU, IN THAT SENSE. ITS BETTER TO USE SOMETHING MORE MILDER THAT DOESNT WREAK HAVOC ON YOUR LIPIDS AND IF PROVIRON DOES THE TRICK THATS GREAT MAN!!

Why is this so hostile? Hell, I agree with virtually every point here, and for that matter I think crazy does too....Apparantly just as proviron has been a boon for you, it has shown itself to equally as unimpressive to me.....BUT, as you said, different things work better/worse for different people.....thats what dialogue is about....

 

[thesinner]

No, I'm agreeing that Adex is much better at estrogen control because after all it is a true AI. Proviron on the other hand just like Masteron only has anti-e properties.

They are all competative aromatase inhibitors (adex, proviron, and masteron). While the DHT-derived androgens can also function as ER antagonists, they are in fact anti-aromatic.

Deca induces its own li'l bit of bloat independent of estrogen.

I might ask the OP what the goals of his cycle are, as he could set up the cycle a little differently and for less money.

For instance, you might go with just winstrol. It does a great job at inhibiting SHBG as well as very well pronouced anti-protestagenic effects. It's also a lot cheaper than proviron.

 

[mj34]

They are all competative aromatase inhibitors (adex, proviron, and masteron). While the DHT-derived androgens can also function as ER antagonists, they are in fact anti-aromatic.

Deca induces its own li'l bit of bloat independent of estrogen.

I might ask the OP what the goals of his cycle are, as he could set up the cycle a little differently and for less money.

For instance, you might go with just winstrol. It does a great job at inhibiting SHBG as well as very well pronouced anti-protestagenic effects. It's also a lot cheaper than proviron.

Good points here!

 

[mj34]

Why is this so hostile? Hell, I agree with virtually every point here, and for that matter I think crazy does too....Apparantly just as proviron has been a boon for you, it has shown itself to equally as unimpressive to me.....BUT, as you said, different things work better/worse for different people.....thats what dialogue is about....

I agree and If I came off hostile then I apoligise I just felt CF was contradicting me and saying my advice regarding Proviron is useless and I will be the first to admit that Proviron will not work for everyone in terms of estro-control esp if you are extremly sensitive. Its all about finding out for yourself and you really cant base your cycle of off anyone else, its trial and error and in time you will see what works best for you. We all know that the basic Joe will respond well with a Test E cycle and nothing else; however, person A might respond great well the next person doesn't get as great results. IMO, I prefer injects over orals anyday as I feel they are much safer and more effective in the long term.

 

[mj34]

They are all competative aromatase inhibitors (adex, proviron, and masteron). While the DHT-derived androgens can also function as ER antagonists, they are in fact anti-aromatic.

Deca induces its own li'l bit of bloat independent of estrogen.

I might ask the OP what the goals of his cycle are, as he could set up the cycle a little differently and for less money.

For instance, you might go with just winstrol. It does a great job at inhibiting SHBG as well as very well pronouced anti-protestagenic effects. It's also a lot cheaper than proviron.

Yes, winny and Mast do this pretty effectivly as well from my exp anyways. I tend to run Winny when my BF is a little higher as Masteron works better for me when my body fat is lower but both have done the trick for me.
You also bring up a great point about asking what the OP's goals are and when this is done a better cycle can be designed more effectively and as u said cheaper that will meet the goals of the individual, well put Sinner!!!:thumbsup:

 

[bigzach1234]

what types of orals would one reccomend the use of proviron with? i know this is probably far off the topic that you guys are arguing about.. but are there any legal orals that one should use either adex or prov with?

 

[mj34]

what types of orals would one reccomend the use of proviron with? i know this is probably far off the topic that you guys are arguing about.. but are there any legal orals that one should use either adex or prov with?

Perhaps someone could answer this question better as far as DS are concerned since you mentioned the legal compounds, however; just by researching some of these compounds I would defintly think Pheraplex and other DS that make you hol water would all be good candidates for the use of Adex or Proviron.

 

[crazyfool405]

i would say M14ADD,

Phera super epi and hdrol are all lean, the wet gains from phera are from it interfereing with aldosterone making you retain water much like anadrol.

 

[bigzach1234]

thanks guys... appreciate it... dbol im guessing in terms of the illegals.. i am running my first cycl ever right now with epi.. but i think after this ill be done with the BS designer orals for a bit .. i would much rather save my liver and use injectables.. they seem safer too.. even tho i do know epi is mild

 

[thesinner]

i would say M14ADD,

Phera super epi and hdrol are all lean, the wet gains from phera are from it interfereing with aldosterone making you retain water much like anadrol.

Yeah, you aren't going to get so much of a benefit from anti-e's with 5a-reduced compounds like pheraplex or superdrol.

Epistane is actually quite akin to proviron and masteron in that it is anti-aromatic and anti-estrogenic.

Halodrol, is simply non-aromatizable. It's actually a weaker (but dryer) derivative of M1,4ADD.

I'd say it's best stacked with just test, boldenone-based (i.e. equipoise or dianabol), or 19-nor based (i.e. deca) steroids.

With test, it works as a good SHBG inhibitor, and also helps control aromatase.

With boldenone-based steroids, it's primary use is as an anti-aromatic.

With 19-nor compounds, it helps with libido. If you're stacking your 19-nor compound with test, however, this can be kinda redundant.

 

[crazyfool405]

Yeah, you aren't going to get so much of a benefit from anti-e's with 5a-reduced compounds like pheraplex or superdrol.

Epistane is actually quite akin to proviron and masteron in that it is anti-aromatic and anti-estrogenic.

Halodrol, is simply non-aromatizable. It's actually a weaker (but dryer) derivative of M1,4ADD.

I'd say it's best stacked with just test, boldenone-based (i.e. equipoise or dianabol), or 19-nor based (i.e. deca) steroids.

With test, it works as a good SHBG inhibitor, and also helps control aromatase.

With boldenone-based steroids, it's primary use is as an anti-aromatic.

With 19-nor compounds, it helps with libido. If you're stacking your 19-nor compound with test, however, this can be kinda redundant.

sinner, have you seen any bloodwork that shows how much anti aromatase activity epi actually has? i have yet to see any pre and on cycle bloodwork to prove it.....

 

[thesinner]

sinner, have you seen any bloodwork that shows how much anti aromatase activity epi actually has? i have yet to see any pre and on cycle bloodwork to prove it.....

I haven't seen for epistane or havoc.

There has been research on epithiostanol, showing it to be even more anti-estrogenic than masteron. Alkylation should not have an effect on this; however, isomerization and intermediates could (which is why some superdrol clones can cause bloat).

 

[crazyfool405]

I haven't seen for epistane or havoc.

There has been research on epithiostanol, showing it to be even more anti-estrogenic than masteron. Alkylation should not have an effect on this; however, isomerization and intermediates could (which is why some superdrol clones can cause bloat).

then what about Dbol and EQ, the same but methylation on the DBOL causes much different effects...????

 

[thesinner]

then what about Dbol and EQ, the same but methylation on the DBOL causes much different effects...????

such as what?

equipoise reacts with receptors and aromatase in the same manner as dianabol. Alkylation increases these reactions by preventing interaction with 17HSD enzymes. and you're usually taking more steroid when taking dianabol than equipoise. (50mg per day of Dbol is 350mg, equal to 554mg of EQ, on a molar basis).

Are these effects different, or are you simply experiencing more of them?