Making Testosterone from Androstenedione

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  1. Post Making Testosterone from Androstenedione

    Please make this a sticky; this is the article typed out from the Dirty Dieting News Letter #2 dated May of 1997
    Comments on making this into an injectable are welcome as are inputs on converting other PHs like 1,4-andro.
    To the mods: You have my permission to fix my spelling and paragraph appointments (dunno how to do that)

    Editor's Note: In the US, this chemical procedure is illegal. Additionally, the by-products of the various androstenediols may fall under the Federal Analogue Act, which schedules derivatives of any DEA-controlled drug (in this case testosterone) into a Control I substance. So in effect, this procedure outlined is a hypothetical exercise designed to show a possible conversion of androstenedione to testosterone.

    The procedure outlined below won't convert 100% of androstenedione to testosterone. But it will convert at least 60% of it, if the procedure is not screwed up too badly. the other percentage of finishied product will contain a small amount of unreacted androstenedione and a larger amount of a (epimeric) mixture of 3,17-androstenediols, which, fortunately, are safe and considerably anabolic compounds in their own right.

    Materials Needed
    [list=1][*]Androstenedione (powder)[*]Methanol (wood alcohol)[*]Sodium Borohydride (sodium tetrahydroborate)[*]Acetic Acid (ethanoic acid)[*]Distilled Water[*]Litmus Paper[*]Thermometer (Fahrenheit)[*]Also: Beaker or glass container for the reaction a pot for salt water ice bath, a way to stir (i.e. spoon), filter, eyedropped (1 or 2cc size).[/list=1]

    [list=1][*]10 grams of androstenedione is dissolved in 400ml methanol and cooled to 32deg Fahrenheit in a salt/ice bath (similar to chilling home-made ice cream).
    [*]2.5g sodium borohydride is added while the solution is stirred.
    [*]The solution is continually stirred for 45 minutes while the temperature is maintained as close to 32deg Fahrenheit as possible.
    [*]After 45 minutes, acetic acid is added to the solution, while stirring, in increments of approximately 2ml at a time (hydrogen gas will evolve).

    Hydrogen Gas can ignite from flame or spark.
    [*]After each addition of acetic acid, thepH of the solution should be checked.
    [*]When the pH just begins to turn acidic on the litmus paper, then the addition of acetic acid should be stopped.
    [*]The methanol solution is now concentrated by evaporation until the volume is around 50ml.

    Hydrogen gas may still be present; it can ignite from flame or spark.
    [*]This concentrated methanol solution is then mixed with 700ml water.[*]The cloudy precipitate that forms is filtered off and the filter cake is washed extensively (several times) with water.
    [*]The filter cake can be air (sun) dried for several days or dried in an oven for several hours at a temperature no higher than 150deg Fahrenheit.
    [*]The finished product, a fine white powder, should contain approximately 60 to 80% testosterone, with lesser amounts of unreacted androstenedione and a mixture of 3-alpha, 17-beta, and 3-beta, 17-beta androstenediols.[/list=1]

    What should be done with this (now highly illegal) stuff once the procedure is finished?

    Since it is highly illegal I would advocate getting rid of it.

    Yet if someone wanted to take the risk and decided to use it, they would probably wonder if it should be taken orally or what?

    I would not suggest that anyone take it orally because the purpose of the experiment would be defeated. Since testosterone is mostly deactivated in the gut, the ingestion of the finished product would be worthless. Instead, there are better alternatives, such as making sublingual liquid by dissolving the product in a solvent such as propyleneglycol and/or ethanol. If this is done, I suggest aiming for a concentration of around 30mg/ml and taking one-third of a milliliter (about 33 insulin IUs) under the tongue as a single dose (repeated throughout the day as often as wished by the user). Another alternative is to make a transdermal DMSO solution (messy and stinky). A third course of action (for the bold ones) is to make an injectable solution. There is a fine art to making such solutions (oil- and aqueous-based) and it is beyond the scope of this article for me to go into this. Perhaps that will make a future installment if we have a response to do so.

  2. wow, never thought anyone would write it up. karma for you.

  3. Has anyone ever tried it? Talk to ya

  4. what no karma for me im the one that found

  5. For something that is unproven... hehehehe. Talk to ya..

  6. im sure it has been proven..considering how old the procedure is there should be some post somewhere on a board im going to check both qfac and elite and see if i can find something
  7. Thumbs up alright!!

    great post bro, i was just reading it yesterday from the newsletter i download a some time ago and it was kinda hard to read and hard on my thanks for saving my eyesight bro.

  8. hey bean, thanks for taking my advice and typing this up for us all, it was hard to read before and i think this will help a lot of people. hopefully this will become a sticky

  9. Question - what are these and where can I get them:

    Methanol (wood alcohol)

    Sodium Borohydride (sodium tetrahydroborate)

    Acetic Acid (ethanoic acid)

  10. dont quote me as im an idiot and not affraid to acknowledge methanol is heat and acetic acid is vinegar

  11. Originally posted by pogue
    Question - what are these and where can I get them:

    Methanol (wood alcohol)

    Sodium Borohydride (sodium tetrahydroborate)

    Acetic Acid (ethanoic acid)
    Methonol or Wood Alcohol is also known by the name Denatured Alcohol and should be availible at any home improvment store.  Its used as paint thinner, solvent for oil based paints.

    Acetic Acid is just your good old vinegar.  Sodium Tetrahyroborate is a chemical is a reducing agent commonly used in chemistry.  There would be no problem in any of us aquiring it through these means seeing as it is very legit and not watched, but that method is gonna be harder and more expensive.  I believe Benn mentioned its use in some chemical cleaner or other product in the other thread.  Maybe he or someone else can shed some more light on that.

    The litmus paper can probally be aquired at a pool supply shop but again is another item easily ordered from any chemical supply company. 

    The glass where needed could probally be found at Walmart seeing as only a measuing container and assorted glass containers are needed.  Measuring the mL of acid in small quanities can be done with a mL calibrated eyedropper sold at most drug store for use in dosing children medicine(as a side note: also wounderful for measuring out individual doses of transdermals and makes application much easier.).

    The hardest part will be measuring the Sodium Tetrahyroborate in such an a small amount.  But if you walk into your local post office when no ones looking, there postal scales might work.  Or you could find a friend dealing in drugs or just visit a school lab.  If someone wished they could use a large excess(1 TBSP should be more than enough) but this could create more hydrogen gas and would require more filtering.

    But overall this is pretty simple and very economicly pleasing and might help out some bros who can't find esterless test powder or are woudering what to do with that extra andro-dione they have lying around.

  12. Alright, here is what I've found

    Sodium borohydride appears to be an agent found in certain soaps and laundry detergents, but I couldn't find an individual place that sold it by itself, except in China. However, from reading it appears to be very dangerous and anyone that does this procedure should wear gloves, goggles and a face mask. Keep away from open flames, and keep the chemicals away from each other. Here is an article on safey when using sodium borohydride:

    Methanol appears to be used in car racing fuels and probably fuel additives. Your local auto parts store might have this, or you might have to look in the phone book and call around to see if you can find some racing fuel. Auto shops, custom shops and places like that will probably carry it, and it might be in some fuel cleaners and octane boosters.

    Otherwise, you can get it here -

    Sunoco Methanol (99.95%)
    Item Price:$ 41.95
    Sunoco Methanol: Clear, 5 gallons in an UN/DOT approved container that is reusable. UPS/FedEx HAZMAT fee ($20) INCLUDED for each container. Shipped in a double wall box per UPS requirements. Shipped FedEx or UPS Ground or 3 Day Select. NO AIR SHIPMENT. Taxable in Texas. NO HAZMAT service outside of USA's 48 contiguous states.

    Obviously, this is very flammable as well and is pure wood alcohol.

    Finally, Acetic Acid is found in vinegar, but in 4-8% concentrate. Not sure if this would be pure enough. Otherwise, here is what I found.

    "You should be able to get regular 28% acetic acid in any large photo store or chemical supply store...
    Look in your yellow pages for photographic and chemical supply. You should be able to drive up and pick this stuff up."

    "28-30% acetic acid is available in the US from Oriental grocery stores. I have never seen it in normal stores. "

  13. Looks like weissmuller got to it before I did.

    Would the amount of acetic acid in vinegar be enough for this experiment?

    Sounds like the wood alcohol will be easy to get, but what about the Sodium Tetrahyroborate? It sounds like its hazmat. What is it used for legitimately? We need to find a source for this, it seems to be the most difficult to attain.

    As for a small scale, a food scale would work, and the drug dealer scales you are talking about are known as "monkey scales" and can be purchased at your local head shop. They're a couple bucks. Most zip lock baggies weigh 1-2 grams btw. Also if you know someone who has one of those home stamp weighers or things like that, it would also work. Anyways, thats a side note.

    The main thing is getting all the chemicals.

  14. Well the sodium tetrahydroborate is gonna be a little bit of a pain.  Springfield Scientific does carry it and will most likely ship it out, the downside is you have to purchase 100 g and with hazmat fees and special packaging its gonna run close to $100.  Plus Springfield has is in the process of moving and that might mean its not shippable and would cause a long wait.

    A havn't gone searching for other sources in commercial products but I'll look into in the morning.  If anyone wants to post some info to jump start my search(anything its conatined in) it would be appericiated.

    Acetic acid concentration isn't a big deal.  Its only purpose is a hyrdronium inon source to complete reduction.  The lower the concentration the more you'll need.  Not a big deal though cause with standard vinegar using the above procedure rough calculations(very rough) make me believe around 42 mL would be needed.  But don't trust the number.

    Also those saftey reports are really overdone.  Sodium tetrahydroborate shouldn't be much more dangerous than a strong acid (not to say thats safe), but I wouldn't expect anyone to die from minimal exposure.  But saftey is the center of any experiment and all precautions should be taken.  Definately eye protection, hand covering, and clothing that dosn't leave any exposed skin.
  15. well

    i got the acetic acid and methanol covered.. i work at a chemical plant and we have large totes of pure acetic acid and methanol in large drums,,,, working on the other ingrediants... may have to ask one of the chemical engineers when they get back from the holidays 
  16. Re: well

    Originally posted by b-boy
    i got the acetic acid and methanol covered.. i work at a chemical plant and we have large totes of pure acetic acid and methanol in large drums,,,, working on the other ingrediants... may have to ask one of the chemical engineers when they get back from the holidays 
    excellent, if you wanted to sell some (looks like we need just a little bit of everything) i would be interested!

    you could start selling andro conversion kits to everyone

  17. hey no prob guys. just tryin to do my part

    conversion kits sound kickass reminds me of fina kits, lol
  18. Re: Re: well

    Originally posted by pogue

    excellent, if you wanted to sell some (looks like we need just a little bit of everything) i would be interested!

    you could start selling andro conversion kits to everyone
    sell? naw free for all my good bro's at bdc, I don't sell nothing bro.

  19. why not just buy some test base from overseas?

  20. Anyone know where to get andro powder, it should be cheap as hell.

  21. Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    why not just buy some test base from overseas?
    easier said than done, don't know where to get any - besides, this is an interesting discussion of how to convert a legal substance into an illegal one

    Originally posted by lovetoeat
    Anyone know where to get andro powder, it should be cheap as hell.

    There has been discussion that the PHs from that site are not very good, but its the only place I've seen that still sells andro powder.
  22. ha

    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    why not just buy some test base from overseas?
    considering all my ingredients are free and the price of andro...LOL  its cheaper for me to make it...

  23. yeah this sounds way too much like a hassle plus its easy as hell to find a source
  24. Sodium Borohydride(Source)

    Okay I did some hunting around and found a source of Sodium Borohydride in the quanities we need.  They sell it in either 5 or 10 g packs.  It'll still cost about 30 shipped for 10 g, but thats better than the alternative sources I've been checking out.  This source also works with individual and shouldn't have any problems.

    I've never worked with this site so it dosn't have my guarantee but if I am ordering some this is where I am getting it from.

  25. yo mods, can we make this a sticky?

  26. I posted this in the "Making testerone from Adro..." threat but here it is again:

    BAC has andro powder at 20 grams for $14

  27. bump

    anyone gonna try this?

  28. I noticed that you said the conversion is for androsteneDIONE...

    you can use androsteneDIOL right??

    and what about the other androgens....such as....hmmm...1,4-andro, 19-Nor-4-andro, 5-AA??

    Would the conversion work for those ones too??


    Cuz, quite frankly, that would kick royal ass



    Read This Book!!: Anabolic Steroids and the Athlete by William N. Taylor M.D.

  29. no, LG, currently we only have the procedure developed for converting DIONEs to their target hormones, but i believe we have some people working on getting a formulation for converting diols. as for the other ph's, yes, theoretically they should all work so long as they r diones, eg. 1,4-dione, 19-nordione, and the like.


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