Hdrol or Mdrol

[we1todd2it3]

i am proposing to run a short/low dosed cycle in a month or 2 and was wondering what u guys would do/recommmend.

Hdrol - 50-50-50-50(bump to 75 weeks 3/4 if needed)
or
Mdrol - 10-10-10

which would you choose for the best gains to sides ratio?
or would u change the doses? remember im keeping these cycles on the lighter/shorter side and plan to use all necessary support/pct supps(including Tamo) AND what dosage for the liquid tamo(not Nolva) at those doses would u recommend. . . i was thinking somthin in the ballpark of 30-30-20-20

 

[LilPsychotic]

whats liquid tamo if its not nolva? Oh and what kind of gains are you looking for?

 

[we1todd2it3]

i was under the impression that tamoxifen citrate was nolvadex. . . . . but. . . . the nolvadex is dosed according to the TAMOXIFEN content, whereas tamoxifen citrate is just that. . . tamoxifen citrate. i heard you have to add 30% to equal the nolva dosage. my overall goal is bulk. . . .always bulk. i "cut" off cycle

 

[we1todd2it3]

oh yeah, stats:
22yrs old
5'9"(and 1/2)
176lbs
8%bf
4 yrs lifting. . . 2 1/2 STRICT diet/exercise
this will be my 3rd cycle

 

[futurepilot]

i was under the impression that tamoxifen citrate was nolvadex. . . . . but. . . . the nolvadex is dosed according to the TAMOXIFEN content, whereas tamoxifen citrate is just that. . . tamoxifen citrate. i heard you have to add 30% to equal the nolva dosage. my overall goal is bulk. . . .always bulk. i "cut" off cycle

True that. I dont see most people recognize this fact when planning PCT. Heres the conversion.

15.2mg Tamoxifen Citrate= 10mg Tamoxifen(Nolvadex)

30.4mg = 20mg

60.8 = 40mg

So on and so forth, you get the idea.

 

[we1todd2it3]

ok, now that thats clarified, does anyone have an opinion on which cycle would have the most advantageous sides/gains ratio. My opinion is that they will yield very similar results(about 10lbs) with neither producing much in the way of sides. . . . am i correct?? or will one yield more sides or gains than the other?? thanks guys!:dance:

 

[we1todd2it3]

and . . . . . . . .bump

 

[Condition1]

If size is your goal on a short cycle, M-drol is the clear cut winner here. Sides are going to be an issue, but you're got going to see 10 solid pounds off of 4 weeks of H-drol IMO.

 

[Ziquor]

i am proposing to run a short/low dosed cycle in a month or 2 and was wondering what u guys would do/recommmend.

Hdrol - 50-50-50-50(bump to 75 weeks 3/4 if needed)
or
Mdrol - 10-10-10

which would you choose for the best gains to sides ratio?
or would u change the doses? remember im keeping these cycles on the lighter/shorter side and plan to use all necessary support/pct supps(including Tamo) AND what dosage for the liquid tamo(not Nolva) at those doses would u recommend. . . i was thinking somthin in the ballpark of 30-30-20-20

If this's your 3rd cycle and you want the most amount of lean mass I'd run M-Drol. At 10mg sides will be little to none. Pantera just ran M-Drol at 10/10/10 and it was his 2nd or 3rd cycle. He put on 10-11 pounds with no sides. Also mostly all tamoxifen tablets AND most liquid versions too already have the conversion done. So 40mg is 40mg. For example my tablets are 20mg and they say on the box "20mg tablets of Tamoxifen (as citrate)". And the tabs are actually each 20mg of Tamoxifen - aka - 30.4mg of tamoxifen citrate.

 

[we1todd2it3]

so the liquid tamo citrate is already measured out to the proper dose of TAMOXIFEN? i hear varied opinions on this. ..

 

[futurepilot]

Also mostly all tamoxifen tablets AND most liquid versions too already have the conversion done. So 40mg is 40mg. For example my tablets are 20mg and they say on the box "20mg tablets of Tamoxifen (as citrate)". And the tabs are actually each 20mg of Tamoxifen - aka - 30.4mg of tamoxifen citrate.

I think you may be confusing yourself.

Your saying that the tamoxifen already has the conversion done? Theres no conversion neccesary. Tamoxifen is the "parent" chemical if you will, and Tamoxifen Citrate is what needs to be converted. This is so you can make dosages based on Tamoxifen which is the active in Nolvadex, which is the basis for the PCT that Tamoxifen Citrate would be used for.

If you have Tamoxifen you have Tamoxifen.

If you have Tamoxifen Citrate, you have Tamoxifen Citrate.

Theres no "converted Tamoxifen Citrate" you have one or the other.

 

[Ziquor]

I think you may be confusing yourself.

Your saying that the tamoxifen already has the conversion done? Theres no conversion neccesary. Tamoxifen is the "parent" chemical if you will, and Tamoxifen Citrate is what needs to be converted. This is so you can make dosages based on Tamoxifen which is the active in Nolvadex, which is the basis for the PCT that Tamoxifen Citrate would be used for.

If you have Tamoxifen you have Tamoxifen.

If you have Tamoxifen Citrate, you have Tamoxifen Citrate.

Theres no "converted Tamoxifen Citrate" you have one or the other.

By conversion I mean: how 20mg of Tamoxifen = 30.4mg of Tamoxifen Citrate. Example is there's no need to take more or less as the drug companies who make Tamoxifen make it so 20mg = 20mg period - no conversion necessary.

 

[Ziquor]

NOLVADEX® (tamoxifen citrate) Tablets, a nonsteroidal antiestrogen, are for oral administration. NOLVADEX Tablets are available as:

10 mg Tablets

Each tablet contains 15.2 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 10 mg of tamoxifen.

20 mg Tablets

Each tablet contains 30.4 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 20 mg of tamoxifen.

<--- Posted by the original creator, or brand name Tamoxifen (Nolvadex).

I’ll break it down like this: ALL Tamoxifen tablets, no matter which company makes them, are made from a combination of 2 different types of Tamoxifen - pure Tamoxifen + Tamoxifen Citrate. Pure Tamoxifen is slightly more potent than the citrate version. However the Citrate is added to level off the stomach acid PH so the medication ends up getting better absorption. NO conversion is necessary as all companies who make Tamoxifen make it so 20mg MEANS 20mg, period. The whole Citrate thing isn’t even relevant & was originally used to discuss the actual make-up of the drug.

 

[futurepilot]

I think were saying the same thing. Just in different words. I was just trying to clarify that if you have Tamoxifen Citrate by itself, since they make both Tamoxifen and Tamoxifen Citrate, that a conversion must be made. But as far as Nolvadex being Tamoxifen Citrate your correct, its the Tamoxifen though that we base our dosing schedules on. Thats all i was trying to get across.

 

[Ziquor]

I think were saying the same thing. Just in different words. I was just trying to clarify that if you have Tamoxifen Citrate by itself, since they make both Tamoxifen and Tamoxifen Citrate, that a conversion must be made. But as far as Nolvadex being Tamoxifen Citrate your correct, its the Tamoxifen though that we base our dosing schedules on. Thats all i was trying to get across.

Gotcha. This's one reason I stray from the 'research liquid' for my cow. With the tabs I know 20mg is 20mg and 10mg is 10mg, etc. All tabs are made the same. But with the liquid they 'may' use all citrate - who knows. And We1 - if you're unsure I'd dose it right in the middle of the regular and citrate.