P-Max (Phereaplex or Ergomax) Blood Test Results - 1 Week in

[solarize]

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

 

[thehazzle]

hows ur results been so far

 

[Dr_C2]

Due you have baselines for yourself (i.e. what were your ALT & AST prior to starting)?

For example, my baselines are 39 & 40 for AST and ALT. Most folks have baselines in the upper 30's to upper 40's unless they are using additional meds like statins.

I ask b/c ALT @ 152 is at a clinical level. AST @ 76 is high but not clinical.

I have more than 25 blood profiles on folks over the last 18 months and I've not seen one that has jumped that high in the first week.

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

 

[pistonpump]

i would think the testosterone would be higher....

 

[xtgear]

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

no liver support supps?

 

[nunes]

I post a link to this thread on bb.com and people is pissed with me cause I posted without some questions so there you go:
1. What were your values BEFORE took the phera? mabye you already had low test.

2. What support supps are you taking?

3. are you abusing your body even more by drinking or taking other hormonals?

4. Did you ever properly recover from your previous cycle(s)
Thanks and wish you luck bro

 

[Werewolf]

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

Taking roughly twice the amount you should be will result in numbers like this. How much do you weigh? 20 mgs is probably closer to what you should taking. About 1 mg per 10 pounds is good starting place. Are you even taking anything to protect your liver? Are you drinking alcohol too? Are you taking pain killers?

You are in trouble. At minimum get your dosing down and get some heavy duty liver protection. My actual best advise is to go into PCT and let your liver recover.

 

[UNCfan1]

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

Is that a typo for normal range on total test? 11-40? I am looking at my recent bloodwork and normal range for total test is 241-827.

 

[hman85]

Product : Bulk Nutrition P-Max
Dose : 3 caps a day (45mg) - 8 days in

Blood Test Results :

Testosterone
Total 1.6 L (Normal 11-40)
Free 8.6 (Normal 31-100)
Liver
AST : 76 (Normal 5-40)
ALT : 152 (Normal 5-40)

As you can see this stuff causes massive shutdown and hits the liver hard. I'm going to continue my cycle, but the above is good to know.

how is it as a clone?

 

[ezza]

dude if they are your values in the first week it might be time to stop and concentrate on getting a good blood test result.... maybe im being a little ignorant or something but do you think anything else could be affecting your results or are you claiming that your were 100% heathly last week and the phera clone is to blame in full?

 

[solarize]

Due you have baselines for yourself (i.e. what were your ALT & AST prior to starting)?

For example, my baselines are 39 & 40 for AST and ALT. Most folks have baselines in the upper 30's to upper 40's unless they are using additional meds like statins.

I ask b/c ALT @ 152 is at a clinical level. AST @ 76 is high but not clinical.

I have more than 25 blood profiles on folks over the last 18 months and I've not seen one that has jumped that high in the first week.

Yes I have baselines:

I've never had a 'normal' reading for liver values since I started getting bloodwork done at 19. They are ALWAYS slightly above "normal" - in the 41-45 range. However, I have always had recreational drug use and occasional drinking, this may be associated.

Yep, that ALT is way too high for my liking also. I'm doing a short cycle (4 weeks), so not overly concerned, but its a factor.

I'm lowering my dose to 2 caps a day (30mg).

So far I have noticed, increased strength (somewhat drastic at times), increased libido, increased acne/oily skin and a fair bit of lethargy. I'm starting to think the caps are dosed higher than they say, as I have run P-Max before with pretty crappy results. I have run Ergomax in the past though with fantastic results. Blood pressure is also way up, so I have started on lisinopril at 20mg a day.

 

[solarize]

Is that a typo for normal range on total test? 11-40? I am looking at my recent bloodwork and normal range for total test is 241-827.

In Australia they use a different value, but there is some multiplication factor to bring it to your values which eludes me at present.

 

[solarize]

how is it as a clone?

How? it's a copy??Sorry. I dont follow what you mean?

 

[solarize]

hows ur results been so far

Increased strength. Increased acne/oily skin. weight is slightly up. blood pressure is up. Interestingly, joints seem to be a bit better, just a bit 'smoother'.

I've just come out of triathlon season, so I'm 92kg at around 10-11% Bf (can see 4-6pack abs etc..). Extremely fit at present and Ive been lifting during my competition season.

 

[solarize]

dude if they are your values in the first week it might be time to stop and concentrate on getting a good blood test result.... maybe im being a little ignorant or something but do you think anything else could be affecting your results or are you claiming that your were 100% heathly last week and the phera clone is to blame in full?

I'm still healthy.

My blood test results a few weeks back were fine, except for slightly elevated liver values (that seems to always be the case for me). Cholesterol/Testosterone/LH etc were fine.

Of interest Cholesterol is also up now - to 7.5
LH is still in normal range though.

 

[ezza]

that's fair enough i'm glad you cleared that up will be interesting to see how it all goes, are you going to do regular blood tests?

 

[nunes]

I'm still healthy.

My blood test results a few weeks back were fine, except for slightly elevated liver values (that seems to always be the case for me). Cholesterol/Testosterone/LH etc were fine.

Of interest Cholesterol is also up now - to 7.5
LH is still in normal range though.

aren't you taking support supps?

 

[ReaperX]

most people don't get bloodwork at all, so congrats for that.

However, being that you know you have abnormal markers in your health and still continuing to use a product that will not make the situation better is beyond me.

 

[Dr_C2]

I'm still healthy.

My blood test results a few weeks back were fine, except for slightly elevated liver values (that seems to always be the case for me). Cholesterol/Testosterone/LH etc were fine.

Of interest Cholesterol is also up now - to 7.5
LH is still in normal range though.

You wrote that your baselines were low 40's for both ALT and AST. How long ago were those baselines established (i.e. when was the last time ALT/AST were in the low 40's)?

Liver enzyme elevations are not uncommon. It only becomes and issue when the readings reach clinical levels (rule of thumb 3X baseline for the individual). The next very important factor is how long the elevations remain. I have seen a 20 year old college student on 1500 mg of acetaminophen ED for 21 days reach clincial levels. Now, the same student discontinued treatment and approximated baseline in 4 weeks.

My point is, just b/c your enzymes spike, is not always indictive of actualy damage. When the liver works to filter the blood in the body, spikes occur as a result of the organ "working harder."

Now, I would be vey concerned if you have had these types of elevations for sometime now. The liver working this hard for an extended period of time could result in damage.

Either way, you really need to follow up with your primary care provider.

I am suprised that your primary care provider has not addressed this with you when your results were discussed.

 

[solarize]

I will be getting a follow-up blood test this coming week with results to follow.

The last time my liver values was checked 2 weeks ago and 4 months before that. Similar values (40's) were evident both times.

 

[solarize]

You wrote that your baselines were low 40's for both ALT and AST. How long ago were those baselines established (i.e. when was the last time ALT/AST were in the low 40's)?

2 weeks prior and 4 months. Both in the low 40's at each blood draw.

My point is, just b/c your enzymes spike, is not always indictive of actualy damage. When the liver works to filter the blood in the body, spikes occur as a result of the organ "working harder."

Now, I would be vey concerned if you have had these types of elevations for sometime now. The liver working this hard for an extended period of time could result in damage.

Thank you for clearning that up. Speaking to a medical student also, as I understood it short term liver elevations due to methyl compounds are not long term damaging. I am not taking 'support' supplements are others have suggested, as I feel them not completely necessary and rather following a complete healthy diet, with fresh food, cardio, weights is and probably the best I can do to mantain healthy whilst still being responsible about steroid usage.

Yes, more tests results to follow. One in a week and a fortnight from now. and a final in June (late), so long as they take tests and get results in time whilst I am in Thailand.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Yes I have baselines:

I've never had a 'normal' reading for liver values since I started getting bloodwork done at 19. They are ALWAYS slightly above "normal" - in the 41-45 range. However, I have always had recreational drug use and occasional drinking, this may be associated.

Yep, that ALT is way too high for my liking also. I'm doing a short cycle (4 weeks), so not overly concerned, but its a factor.

I'm lowering my dose to 2 caps a day (30mg).

So far I have noticed, increased strength (somewhat drastic at times), increased libido, increased acne/oily skin and a fair bit of lethargy. I'm starting to think the caps are dosed higher than they say, as I have run P-Max before with pretty crappy results. I have run Ergomax in the past though with fantastic results. Blood pressure is also way up, so I have started on lisinopril at 20mg a day.

You should run it for 3 weeks.