Is there such a thing as an androgenic steroid? - AnabolicMinds.com

Is there such a thing as an androgenic steroid?

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    Is there such a thing as an androgenic steroid?


    Are there steroids that give mainly androgenic effects rather than anabolic? Will 17AA anabolics give these effects to a great degre, or do they go away? Can ZMA or tribulus influence androgenic effects (like making you shave more often) or will only hormones do this? BTW I'm 22. If this is in the wrong forum or not appropriate, PM or emil me where I can find the answer to this. Thanks.

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    First off, all steroids have both an androgenic and an anabolic function, just different ratios for each. The 17AA modification does not determine the androgenic component, it is there to prevent first-pass metabolism by the liver.
    With that said, I believe Halotestin is a very androgenic oral steroid with low anabolic properties. Tribulus might also but to a MUCH lesser degree than any PH or Steroid.

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    Tren is extremely androgenic. The most androgenic is methylated tren.
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    My bad, thanks for clearing that up bobo.

    ManBeast
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    Thanks for the replies, I did some research and halotestin is very risky and apparently tren doesn't exist anymore.

    For those of you who have taken steroids, do the safer ones (primarily anabolic) generally give you a deeper voice, more hair, more defined jaw, etc (androgenic characteristics) to SOME degree and does it last? Every big guy I see in the gym has these characteristics. Or is this something that happens (ossibly to a lesser degree) when you put on muscle regardless of steroids? Will you start to shave more often, etc? I know this is an odd question and probably hasn't been asked before. Thanks in advance.
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    Originally posted by Glen
    apparently tren doesn't exist anymore.
    Tren is most definitely still around.
  7. BMZ
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    YEAH I was gonna say that, where did he get that TREN is not around anymore...? tren is still around alot of bros use tren
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    hes propbably thinking of the original parabolin which is not around anymore
  9. BMZ
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    probably so, I would recommend this bro do ALOT of research........
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    He might of meant methylated tren too which is only available by one underground lab.
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    No reason to look for the most androgenic. Test should do a very good job of masculinizing ANYONE.

    It is also the cheapest steroid you can buy.

    2 birds....1 stone.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    Tren is extremely androgenic. The most androgenic is methylated tren.
    I thought that tren's anabolic:androgenic ratio was about 2:1 as opposed to 1:1 for test... That would make test more androgenic than tren, don't you think?
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    Nope. Test is androgenic but not to the extent of Tren. Test had the ability to aromatize combined with it androgenic properties and thats why its a much better mass builder.

    Plus those raitios are in terms of their own properties, not the properties of other compounds. I could have a ratio of 10:1 but that 1 could still be higher than some other compunds androgenic/anabolic activity.


    "In fact, in veterinary cycles the androgenic hypertrophy is regarded as the strongest of any steroid, which is why instead of using aromatizing compounds to enhance mass in cattle, they now inject them with products like Revalor-S, which contains trenbolone and estradiol, to make up for the lack of estrogenic mass accrual." BC
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    Could you provide me with a study that shows tren is more androgenic than testosterone?
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    Pharmacological and endocrinological studies on anabolic agents.

    Neumann F.

    When used in connection with animal production the term "anabolic agents" covers a wide range. Ther steroidal male and female sex hormones are included in this list, as are the nonsteroidal estrogens. For the clinician and for the endocrinologist, anabolics are only steroids chemically related to testosterone and 19-nortestosterone. Estrogens, though possessing anabolic properties, too, do not belong to this class. This paper will deal with anabolic agents in in the stricter sense of which mainly trenbolone acetate combined with hexestrol has been recommended for bull and heifer fattening. To consider possible consumer injury from ingestion of meat from anabolic agent treated animals, it is necessary to know the pharmacological properties of the agents, the doses producing certain effects or might produce, and the levels of residues in the meat. Trenbolone acetate will be compared with the following anabolic agents: methenolone acetate, methandrostenolone, nandrone, androstanazole, and 19-nortestosterone. The activity spectrum of trenbolone acetate is similar to that of 19-nortestosterone or those anabolics that are derived from 19-nortestosterone. The compound has about three times stronger androgenic effect than testosterone propionate. Its index of dissociation between anabolic/androgenic activity is 2--3. This index is 3--10 for the other anabolic agents. As regards the virilizing potency, trenbolone acetate is also on the top of the list. It seems that androgenicity and degree of virilization run paralle. The antigonadotropic activity (inhibition of ovulation and testicular growth) of trenbolone acetate exceeds that of testosterone propionate by the factor 3. The compound is not estrogenic and seemingly not or only weakly progestationally active. In principle, the androgenic activity (symptoms of virilization) as well as the antigonadotropic effect (disturbances of the menstrual cycle in women, inhibition of spermiogenesis in men) of trenbolone acetate might be noted. This risk, however, can be excluded by mere calculation. In rats, 0.1 mg/kg trenbolone acetate have an antigonadotropic effect. This corresponds to a daily dose of 5--7 mg in humans. By the same extrapolation, a daily human dose of 100 mg can be calculated for androgenic activity. Such factors of conversion are, of course, not precise because rats are much less sensitive to androgens and anabolics than humans. Thus, testosterone propionate is active only in daily doses of 10--20 mg. If in humans trenbolone acetate also has three times the activity of testosterone propionate, effects in man had to be counted with not less than a daily intake of 3--5 mg trenbolone acetate. The dose which is recommended for livestock fattening is 300 mg. IT can, therefore, be excluded almost with certainty that the meat would contain such large amounts of hormone residues.


    Another thing to consider is that most of Test androgenic capabilities is from DHT. DHT levels rarely ever stay elevated above supraphysiological levels and the majority is converted to 5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol (3-Alpha). Other wise DHT which is extremely androgenic would be used much more.

    Is that any better?
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    LOL, man Bobo doesn't even say anything unless it can be backed up by Pubmed!
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    Are you doing this for facial hair? If you are OMG HAHAHAHHAA!! Ok now that I laughed you should try some rogain on the face. You think it doesnt work, well neither did I, and the science didnt prove it but it worked very well on my friend. Also some Tren + Test will do wonders also.
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    Originally posted by zwarrior99
    Are you doing this for facial hair? If you are OMG HAHAHAHHAA!! Ok now that I laughed you should try some rogain on the face. You think it doesnt work, well neither did I, and the science didnt prove it but it worked very well on my friend. Also some Tren + Test will do wonders also.
    No, that would be retarded because I keep myself clean shaven. But, I would like to have a deeper voice, look more "masculine" and have more test in general. Who wouldn't? I look too young for my age and would like to look older and more masculine. Also, the 10-15 lbs of muscle wouldn't hurt either. I don't want to completely change who I am, just (relatively) safely enhance what I have.

    Atavis, thanks, that's the answer I was looking for. When you say test do you mean 1-test or just any real steroid (including the safer ones)?

    Cosmos, BMZ, capt bicept, and Bobo: I got the info from this source:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/cgi-bin/...ndercover2.htm

    As for starting a cycle, I'm definitely not ready yet for a lot of reasons (not close to genetic potential, age, not enough knowledge) but I'm starting the research now. I started with this question because I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.

    Thanks to everyone that replied, this info is much appreciated.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    The activity spectrum of trenbolone acetate is similar to that of 19-nortestosterone or those anabolics that are derived from 19-nortestosterone. The compound has about three times stronger androgenic effect than testosterone propionate
    It's 3 times as androgenic mg per mg, but couldn't it be as well x times more anabolic mg per mg thus having a better anabolic:androgenic ratio?
    Last edited by neurotic; 09-17-2003 at 06:19 PM.
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    No. It doesn't aromatize. Its effect on hypertrophy is mediated through the androgenic receptor and increasing of satellite cell sensitivity to IGF-1.
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    Halostein, or my personal favorite, better then LifeSavers,

    cheque drops.
  22. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Whats Halostein? If you mean Halotestin its not as androgenic as tren. It actually has moderate binding to the androgen receptor.


    And methyltren is more androgenic than cheque drops (if you can actually find them).
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    I was looking through the VIDA text a few weeks ago at my library, and let me just say, some of the steroids that can be brought out (underground or OTC) would make tren look like androdione. Now of course this is jsut waht it looks like on paper, It could turn out to be ****, but I dont think all of them would. Some of these steroids, technically could be brought out as supplements, as they would basically fall nto the same category of 1test, and only one is a controlled substance in one state. I am going to look at the text more clearly when I get back, or hopefully I can find myself a copy of the VIDA book (not likely).
  24. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Yeah I have one at my University library that I might *ahem* borrow for a while
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    Haha...Well if you "borrow it" and would like to let me borrow it, I will pay a good price for it. My library wont let me take it out. Not to mention ti is in horrible condition. I am stuck photocopying 100pages of info.
    Some of the compounds are rather intersting, and once i look at them in more detail, i may have to contact China and place an order
  26. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Yeah I saw Brock and Pat wanting a copy too
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    Everyone wants one.... Hopefully I can find one somewhere. 1 interesting compund I saw either in the Vida or another book (cant remember as I glanced through a few older texts) was a substance that was very similar to trenbolone (not the new Finagenx product) that had some nice info on it. I believe it may have been a hydroxy which may prove rather interesting.
  28. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Looks like I'm going to the library on my lunch break tomorrow

    Anything else thats a good read? I'm in the heart of chemical country and my library was funded directly by Dupont (its 20 minutes away)
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    Yep, try 'Steroids' (2nd ed. - 1967) by Louis F. Fieser and Mary Fieser ,
    Total Synthesis of Steroids (Hardcover Textbook, 1974) by Anil C. Ghosh, Gordon C. Wolf, Robert T. Blickenstaff,
    Hormonal Steroids (Hardcover, 1971)

    that should give you some good reading...... I have a few still at my house, I get bills from the library every once and a while, one day they're going to show up at my house.
  30. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Got em!

    Also found

    Biochemistry of steroid hormones / edited by H.L.J. Makin.
    Edition 2nd ed.

    Published Oxford ; Boston : Blackwell Scientific Publications ; St. Louis, Mo. : Blackwell Mosby Book Distributors, 1984


    THere were some others also but truthfullt when you do a search with anything related to steroids, androgens, etc...the lists are huge.
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    Damn, I wish my library had all this ****. I have only seen some of them. Your lucky bro
  32. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    We have one of best Chemistry Programs in the country. We can thank DuPont for that. Its another reason why I never was a Chemistry major here. Its hard as hell. One of my good firneds graduated here with a degree in Chemical Engineering and the govt immediately hired him. I remember looking at his texts, then I would thank god I didn't have to do his work
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    OK. I can't believe nobody said Proviron.
    Proviron is androgenic with NO anabolic properties.
  34. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Its index of dissociation between anabolic/androgenic activity is 2--3.
    Bobo,

    as you can see that same study you posted implies that tren is not as androgenic as test, for it has an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 2-3/1. It's more androgenic mg per mg, but for a given anabolic effect you get less androgenic effects out of tren as you can see. To me that makes tren 2-3 times safer androgenically speaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior99
    Are you doing this for facial hair? If you are OMG HAHAHAHHAA!! Ok now that I laughed you should try some rogain on the face. You think it doesnt work, well neither did I, and the science didnt prove it but it worked very well on my friend. Also some Tren + Test will do wonders also.
    worked for bart simpson
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    bobo

    do u have the complete name of text and auther of Vidas book. maybe i can find it in my library
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    x muscle,

    it is "Androgens and Anabolic Agents: Chemistry and Pharmacology", by Julius A. Vida,
    Academic Press, 1969
  38. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurotic
    Bobo,

    as you can see that same study you posted implies that tren is not as androgenic as test, for it has an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 2-3/1. It's more androgenic mg per mg, but for a given anabolic effect you get less androgenic effects out of tren as you can see. To me that makes tren 2-3 times safer androgenically speaking.
    Then go take it and them come and tell me that. Like I said a million times, you rely on ratios WAY too much. I suggest you take the things you claim are more anabolic and/or more androgenic then come back and tell me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Then go take it and them come and tell me that. Like I said a million times, you rely on ratios WAY too much. I suggest you take the things you claim are more anabolic and/or more androgenic then come back and tell me.
    It was you who relied on that study in the first place in order to state that tren was more androgenic than test... but you overlooked the fact that in that study it's also stated that it's much more anabolic, hence my quotation of its ratio.
    There's a thread at CEM where we discuss whether or not tren is more androgenic than test (first I also thought it was more androgenic). As Jboldman said... It would be interesting if you took a look at this thread:

    http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/For...ght=tren+ratio

    I know I rely on ratios too much, but now tell me what you rely on to make such statement, anecdotal evidence? Sorry, that's not enough for me.
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    Anecdotal evidence? Yeah thousands of users is anectdotal evidence. Its better than you who rely on books alone when you've never even used any of this and only seem to try to find PH's that will give you the saem effect. You debate ratios like they are the end all fo stories when you've never even TAKEN ANYTHING! You sit there and presume to preach to me with ZERO experience. I relied on that study to show that mg to mg it IS more androgenic. I wasn't concerned about how anabolic it was. People don't even understnad how tren exerts in anabolic properties. SOme say its IGF-1, soms say its FGF but NOBODY KNOWS! I get up and piuss like 5 times a night on tren. I shed more hair on tren and I get more acne on tren than I do test. Plenty of people experience that same side effects but your going to sit there and tell me its not as andorgenic because of the enlargment of rat prostate wasn't as big in the Rat Levator Assay?

    If its not enough for you then do what I've told you to do a million times to get your conclusion. TRY IT! But then that would be anectdotal eviddnce in the end right? Your name suits you well. You seem to disagree with everyone all the time because some rat levator assay tellls you a different story. If that was the case people would be gaining lbs of muscle on CLENBUTEROL!
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