+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 59

JW isn't advertised as containing a methyl. Wtf?

  1.  04-05-2008  12:37 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    JW isn't advertised as containing a methyl. Wtf?


    Am I missing something?



  2.  04-05-2008  01:02 PM
    Registered User bbkhan87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Stats
    6'0"  201 lbs.
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    228
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    179

    they are so damn shady why even bother with them

    •   


        
       

  3.  04-05-2008  01:10 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    If you look on any website selling it, then it doesn't mention anything 'methyl' on the ingredients label.

    I was just looking at my bottle and I saw this:

    '17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4, 6-dien-3-one-17-ol'

  4.  04-05-2008  01:14 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    I was going to say well maybe thats cause it isn't.Looks like it obvisouly is though.You gona use it?17-HD doesn't mention that it's methylated either.

  5.  04-05-2008  01:28 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    I'll eventually get around to stacking it with Epi. I've heard of people stack the two since they're both very mild, yet so effective. I've also seen a lot of people stack Epi and Fura.

    I just think it's funny how NP or any other online retailer selling JW doesn't advertise it as being methylated, but the label clearly states that.



    I just took the above pic.

    Originally Posted by pantera101 View Post
    I was going to say well maybe thats cause it isn't.Looks like it obvisouly is though.You gona use it?17-HD doesn't mention that it's methylated either.

  6.  04-05-2008  01:33 PM
    Registered User stxnas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    32
    Posts
    9,964
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    563377

    Plz see below:

    Originally Posted by Author L. Rea
    Is it 17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17-ol and in a red bottle? If so we did the label correction coming on 2 years ago. This is simply the 17a methyl analog of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one that started so much contraversy about a year or more ago. The issue was "is it an androgen or an AI?". Well, both as is teslac, aromasin ATD and most other AIs. However it sucks as a serious anabolic as even n higher dosages it fails to show up in total testosterone as an AAS should. Patrick Arnold and I do not agree that a methyl bond at 17a still allows for AI activity. Though I usually agree with PA this would be to say that Masterone has no AI value and that the lower estrogen levels blood work has shown durring testing were wrong as well. It also would mean that several journals and patent applications are in error. So is it an AI?

    Well, hell yes...

    A synopsis of the anti-aromatase (anti-estrogenic) capacity of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one and its preferential nature in this capacity over other agents

    17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one is an anti-aromatase in the family of other ‘6-delta’ androstenes. The addition of a 6-delta (6-ene) group allows for any androstene to become predominantly anti-estrogenic by creating a compound that now potently induces anti-aromatase activity. In this family 3,17-diones (ie., androsta-1,4,6-trien-3,17-dione, androsta-4,6-dien-3,17-dione) are the most potent anti-aromatase agents in regard to the effect of the 3 and 17 position functional groups on activity. However, these agents appear to have a disposition to induce unwanted side effects which include gynecomastia. It has been found that 17-hydroxy-3-one agents still display a sound potent anti-aromatase capacity (though of a slightly lower potency than 3,17-diones), but do not appear to have any predisposition to unwanted negative side effects, particularly the highly unwanted potential for gynecomastia. Overall they are the preferred agents to allow the body to have optimized estrogen modulation without undesirable drawbacks. The 4,6-dien is preferred over the 1,4,6-trien analogue as simply it is superior still in overall cost effectiveness and thus the most superior commercial agent for the purpose of positive estrogen modulation.

    Documentation that expounds on the nature of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one as well as related agents as an aromatase inhibitor (AI) can be found in the below reference:
    A Schering patent that cites the compound as an AI and the reference it is within:
    Combination of dehydroepiandrosterone and aromatase inhibitors and use of this combination to produce a medicament for treating relative and absolute androgen deficiency in men - US Patent 6696432 (link to patent)
    (excerpt)
    For the purposes of this invention, aromatase inhibitors are all those compounds that prevent estrogens from being formed from their metabolic precursors by inhibiting the enzyme aromatase (inhibition of biosynthesis). As aromatase inhibitors, therefore, all compounds are suitable that are suitable as substrates for aromatase, such as, for example, the testolactone (17a-oxa-D-homoandrost-1,4-diene-3,17-dione) that is described in the "Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism," 49, 672 (1979); the compounds that are described in "Endocrinology " 1973, Vol. 92, No. 3, page 874:
    androsta-4,6-diene-3,17-dione,
    androsta-4,6-dien-17beta-ol-3-one acetate,
    androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione,
    4-androstene-19-chloro-3,17-dione,
    4-androstene-3,6,17-trione;

    Again all androstene compounds will have a predominantly AI capacity if the 6-position is altered. Such alterations include the abovementioned 6-delta alteration, the commonly known 6-oxo alteration, as well as many others including alkylations, brominations, et. al. While 17-one compounds in this class have a higher AI potency they are unfavorable due to their inherent predisposition to cause unwanted effects. The 17-hydroxy variants are superior overall as to their strong AI potency that while slightly below 17-one agents do not have the potential for unwanted side effects found with their 17-one counterparts.

    Make sense why we still believe in Jungle Warfare after all the bashing by other company reps? We have good research to support this but naturaly some idiot will call it otherwise.
    ...here's a thread about this too: Jungle Warfare - What is ALRI doing?
    On Indefinite Hiatus Until Further Notice
    I'll be around a little, but not sure how much.
    RcB

  7.  04-05-2008  01:38 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Yeah,I remember seeing on a discussion board how 17 HD was methylated.But the adds don't say anything about it.Then a guy was telling me how it's actually good for you cause of certain things it does.So I was thinking maybe it's not and I misheard/misremembered.But yes,it is.Supp companies are shady for the most part.I still believe CEL's is the most straight forward upstanding trustable company considering they only sell designers.My m-drol bottle says;
    "M-drol is a pro anabolic clone.due to it's potent nature,M-drol is not a suitable option for a first pro anabolic cycle.First time pro anabolic users may want to consider P-plex or H-drol.Agter finishing M-drol,it is important to be familiar with and do proper Post Cycle Therapy."

    Thats the most informative info on a designer bottle i've ever seen!

  8.  04-05-2008  01:44 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Safe to stack with Epi then?

    Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    Plz see below:



    ...here's a thread about this too: Jungle Warfare - What is ALRI doing?

  9.  04-05-2008  02:22 PM
    Registered User nephilim666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,108
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    633

    imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.

  10.  04-05-2008  02:31 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Originally Posted by nephilim666 View Post
    imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.
    About the hair loss.Did it go away then come back?Were you thinning and then it stopped after you discontinued it?What exactly happened?

  11.  04-05-2008  02:39 PM
    Registered User ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Location
    30.2747, -97.7404
    Posts
    4,281
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5586

    Originally Posted by MuscleGuyinNY View Post
    Safe to stack with Epi then?
    yes.

  12.  04-05-2008  02:41 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Did you use any methods of on-cyle support, or PCT? I know most people disregard PCT while using JW, but I will be taking extra precautions.

    Originally Posted by nephilim666 View Post
    imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.

  13.  04-05-2008  02:43 PM
    Banned MuscleGuyinNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plattsburgh (Upstate), NY
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,106
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    I figured. Just wanted a second opinion. I've even seen people stack Epi/Fura, which is why I asked.

    Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    yes.

  14.  04-05-2008  03:39 PM
    Registered User ReaperX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Stats
    5'9"  .5 lbs.
    Age
    5
    Posts
    6,495
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    3320

    FYI: just because something is methylated it does not mean it is liver unfriendly.

    The methyl combined with the anabolic:androgenic ratio is what determines the liver toxicity associated with these compounds.

    Jungle Warfare is allegedly an aromatase inhibitor. Ok, so differentiating from an androgen, this would not exhibit liver toxicity to a substantial degree as a bonefide anabolic would.

    I'm not sure what they are writing up but on any product: 17a

    typically indicates that there is a methyl there. The ADED nomenclature that said something like 17 alkayl or whatever the f-ck it said, would indicate something is also going on on the 17th carbon. Most likely a methyl as I see no other reason to toy with it like that.


    In regards to Jungle Warfare, I have a red bottle I have not yet used. I am on the border of selling it for piss cheap due to the shady tactics used by ALRI.

    The ingredients were brought into question almost a year ago, and people are still scratching their heads about WTF is really going on with the product.

  15.  04-05-2008  03:49 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    So i'm guessing 17-HD is not too bad either.The guy was saying thats what he uses when he's cutting cause it makes cardio so much easier.He was also saying it's good for you cause it increases oxygen uptake and # of certain blood cells(prob red) and other good things.He was also saying they have had it for x amount of years,and it's still one of his favorites.I was thinking I prob wont mess with it cause of the methyls I have already used and will be using.Your avi made me laugh reaper!

  16.  04-05-2008  05:39 PM
    Registered User ReaperX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Stats
    5'9"  .5 lbs.
    Age
    5
    Posts
    6,495
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    3320

    I'm not even sure what 17-HD is. I know it is some herb they try to make sound like a steroid.

    If that it the case, there should not be any reason why this is liver toxic if the herb does not actually offer any anabolic activity. This is kinda the same thing with ALRI's Pro-Anabol which is methylated Ecdysterone.


    I have yet to try 17-HD and Fenugreek and I think I probably will try both next time I order supplements.


    What 17-HD and Fenugreek is everyone taking ? I was thinking about ordering the IDS's Testofen and 17-HD to try out.


    Also another thing to note:

    Just because something is unmethylated does not mean it is not toxic. For example, if you take Furazadrol or Prostanozol, well typically people take those compounds in the 300mg area. Fair high doses. When I took Furazadrol, I just stuck to 150mg (which is 3 capsules recommended on the bottle) and blended the compound in oil for better uptake.


    Ok, so let's think about Superdrol and Phera-Plex. Superdrol has good potentcy @ 10mg. Phera-Plex (DMT) does as well at 10-15mg. My friend only uses 15mg maximum and gets good results. These are effective at such low doses due to the methylation that allows them to pass through the liver without being destroyed.


    Back to Prostanozol and Furazadrol, well when you ingest 300mg+ of this, you are not getting 300mg+ in your blood stream due to 'losses' of the compound. You can easily come to the conclusion that these losses are occuring in the liver, during the 'first pass'. Where else would the compound get lost (deactivated) ?

    It is not that the compound losses are not harmful at all.

    Really people who take mega amounts of non-methyls should just stick to methyls because it is all relative. In the same respect, if you do not want to take methyls and take LOW DOSES of non-methyls then your results will probably not be as great.

    So how do you address both these issues ? Injectables.

  17.  04-05-2008  05:50 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    It seems vyotech's 17-HD is the better option.I used ids's and felt great the first day,the first time.It tells you to take it twice a day.After the first time,I never felt anything.I think it's a mix of herbs.Suposively one is close to a designer.It's suposively lacking one thing.

  18.  04-05-2008  05:55 PM
    Registered User ReaperX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Stats
    5'9"  .5 lbs.
    Age
    5
    Posts
    6,495
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    3320

    Ok, I see nutra sells Vyotech 17-HD. I'll try it sometime.

  19.  04-05-2008  06:09 PM
    Registered User ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Location
    30.2747, -97.7404
    Posts
    4,281
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5586

    Originally Posted by ReaperX View Post
    Ok, I see nutra sells Vyotech 17-HD. I'll try it sometime.
    I've used it back in the day. It's prob. the best pre-workout stim I've ever taken. Ups strength, mood, etc.. It's pretty nice..

    I did use the IDS version though.. But, they're supposed to be the same. Oh, and I believe that it works best on an empty stomach, in fact, I'm nearly certain.

  20.  04-05-2008  06:14 PM
    Banned pantera101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    texas
    Age
    27
    Posts
    3,312
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    I've used it back in the day. It's prob. the best pre-workout stim I've ever taken. Ups strength, mood, etc.. It's pretty nice..

    I did use the IDS version though.. But, they're supposed to be the same. Oh, and I believe that it works best on an empty stomach, in fact, I'm nearly certain.
    IDS's isn't methylated.I think I heard one say it's at twice of 17-HD's doses.Although it seems most like 17-HD better.Prob cause of the methylation.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Forum Threads

  1. T-911 Ingrediens different than advertised?
    By j rad in forum LG Sciences
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-27-2009, 12:48 PM
  2. EST Methyl XT/ Methyl Masterdrol Xplo Caps
    By summersy in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-14-2009, 09:10 AM
  3. methyl-plex methyl-drol cycle questions
    By calidood in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-07-2006, 01:12 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-24-2006, 07:18 PM

Tags for this Thread