JW isn't advertised as containing a methyl. Wtf?

[MuscleGuyinNY]

Am I missing something?

 

[bbkhan87]

they are so damn shady why even bother with them

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

If you look on any website selling it, then it doesn't mention anything 'methyl' on the ingredients label.

I was just looking at my bottle and I saw this:

'17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4, 6-dien-3-one-17-ol'

 

[pantera101]

I was going to say well maybe thats cause it isn't.Looks like it obvisouly is though.You gona use it?17-HD doesn't mention that it's methylated either.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

I'll eventually get around to stacking it with Epi. I've heard of people stack the two since they're both very mild, yet so effective. I've also seen a lot of people stack Epi and Fura.

I just think it's funny how NP or any other online retailer selling JW doesn't advertise it as being methylated, but the label clearly states that.

I just took the above pic.

I was going to say well maybe thats cause it isn't.Looks like it obvisouly is though.You gona use it?17-HD doesn't mention that it's methylated either.

 

[stxnas]

Plz see below:

Is it 17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17-ol and in a red bottle? If so we did the label correction coming on 2 years ago. This is simply the 17a methyl analog of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one that started so much contraversy about a year or more ago. The issue was "is it an androgen or an AI?". Well, both as is teslac, aromasin ATD and most other AIs. However it sucks as a serious anabolic as even n higher dosages it fails to show up in total testosterone as an AAS should. Patrick Arnold and I do not agree that a methyl bond at 17a still allows for AI activity. Though I usually agree with PA this would be to say that Masterone has no AI value and that the lower estrogen levels blood work has shown durring testing were wrong as well. It also would mean that several journals and patent applications are in error. So is it an AI?

Well, hell yes...

A synopsis of the anti-aromatase (anti-estrogenic) capacity of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one and its preferential nature in this capacity over other agents

17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one is an anti-aromatase in the family of other ‘6-delta’ androstenes. The addition of a 6-delta (6-ene) group allows for any androstene to become predominantly anti-estrogenic by creating a compound that now potently induces anti-aromatase activity. In this family 3,17-diones (ie., androsta-1,4,6-trien-3,17-dione, androsta-4,6-dien-3,17-dione) are the most potent anti-aromatase agents in regard to the effect of the 3 and 17 position functional groups on activity. However, these agents appear to have a disposition to induce unwanted side effects which include gynecomastia. It has been found that 17-hydroxy-3-one agents still display a sound potent anti-aromatase capacity (though of a slightly lower potency than 3,17-diones), but do not appear to have any predisposition to unwanted negative side effects, particularly the highly unwanted potential for gynecomastia. Overall they are the preferred agents to allow the body to have optimized estrogen modulation without undesirable drawbacks. The 4,6-dien is preferred over the 1,4,6-trien analogue as simply it is superior still in overall cost effectiveness and thus the most superior commercial agent for the purpose of positive estrogen modulation.

Documentation that expounds on the nature of 17b-hydroxy-androsta-4,6-dien-3-one as well as related agents as an aromatase inhibitor (AI) can be found in the below reference:
A Schering patent that cites the compound as an AI and the reference it is within:
Combination of dehydroepiandrosterone and aromatase inhibitors and use of this combination to produce a medicament for treating relative and absolute androgen deficiency in men - US Patent 6696432 (link to patent)
(excerpt)
For the purposes of this invention, aromatase inhibitors are all those compounds that prevent estrogens from being formed from their metabolic precursors by inhibiting the enzyme aromatase (inhibition of biosynthesis). As aromatase inhibitors, therefore, all compounds are suitable that are suitable as substrates for aromatase, such as, for example, the testolactone (17a-oxa-D-homoandrost-1,4-diene-3,17-dione) that is described in the "Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism," 49, 672 (1979); the compounds that are described in "Endocrinology " 1973, Vol. 92, No. 3, page 874:
androsta-4,6-diene-3,17-dione,
androsta-4,6-dien-17beta-ol-3-one acetate,
androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione,
4-androstene-19-chloro-3,17-dione,
4-androstene-3,6,17-trione;

Again all androstene compounds will have a predominantly AI capacity if the 6-position is altered. Such alterations include the abovementioned 6-delta alteration, the commonly known 6-oxo alteration, as well as many others including alkylations, brominations, et. al. While 17-one compounds in this class have a higher AI potency they are unfavorable due to their inherent predisposition to cause unwanted effects. The 17-hydroxy variants are superior overall as to their strong AI potency that while slightly below 17-one agents do not have the potential for unwanted side effects found with their 17-one counterparts.

Make sense why we still believe in Jungle Warfare after all the bashing by other company reps? We have good research to support this but naturaly some idiot will call it otherwise.

...here's a thread about this too: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/l-r-i/63651-jungle-warfare-what.html

 

[pantera101]

Yeah,I remember seeing on a discussion board how 17 HD was methylated.But the adds don't say anything about it.Then a guy was telling me how it's actually good for you cause of certain things it does.So I was thinking maybe it's not and I misheard/misremembered.But yes,it is.Supp companies are shady for the most part.I still believe CEL's is the most straight forward upstanding trustable company considering they only sell designers.My m-drol bottle says;
"M-drol is a pro anabolic clone.due to it's potent nature,M-drol is not a suitable option for a first pro anabolic cycle.First time pro anabolic users may want to consider P-plex or H-drol.Agter finishing M-drol,it is important to be familiar with and do proper Post Cycle Therapy."

Thats the most informative info on a designer bottle i've ever seen!

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

Safe to stack with Epi then?

Plz see below:



...here's a thread about this too: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/l-r-i/63651-jungle-warfare-what.html

 

[nephilim666]

imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.

 

[pantera101]

imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.

About the hair loss.Did it go away then come back?Were you thinning and then it stopped after you discontinued it?What exactly happened?

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Safe to stack with Epi then?

yes.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

Did you use any methods of on-cyle support, or PCT? I know most people disregard PCT while using JW, but I will be taking extra precautions.

imo staythe **** away from JW. it gave me NO gains, terrible headaches, bad libido crash, bad joints, and hair loss... not to mention GI discomphort and bizzare ass dreams.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

I figured. Just wanted a second opinion. I've even seen people stack Epi/Fura, which is why I asked.

yes.

 

[ReaperX]

FYI: just because something is methylated it does not mean it is liver unfriendly.

The methyl combined with the anabolic:androgenic ratio is what determines the liver toxicity associated with these compounds.

Jungle Warfare is allegedly an aromatase inhibitor. Ok, so differentiating from an androgen, this would not exhibit liver toxicity to a substantial degree as a bonefide anabolic would.

I'm not sure what they are writing up but on any product: 17a

typically indicates that there is a methyl there. The ADED nomenclature that said something like 17 alkayl or whatever the f-ck it said, would indicate something is also going on on the 17th carbon. Most likely a methyl as I see no other reason to toy with it like that.


In regards to Jungle Warfare, I have a red bottle I have not yet used. I am on the border of selling it for piss cheap due to the shady tactics used by ALRI.

The ingredients were brought into question almost a year ago, and people are still scratching their heads about WTF is really going on with the product.

 

[pantera101]

So i'm guessing 17-HD is not too bad either.The guy was saying thats what he uses when he's cutting cause it makes cardio so much easier.He was also saying it's good for you cause it increases oxygen uptake and # of certain blood cells(prob red) and other good things.He was also saying they have had it for x amount of years,and it's still one of his favorites.I was thinking I prob wont mess with it cause of the methyls I have already used and will be using.Your avi made me laugh reaper!

 

[ReaperX]

I'm not even sure what 17-HD is. I know it is some herb they try to make sound like a steroid.

If that it the case, there should not be any reason why this is liver toxic if the herb does not actually offer any anabolic activity. This is kinda the same thing with ALRI's Pro-Anabol which is methylated Ecdysterone.


I have yet to try 17-HD and Fenugreek and I think I probably will try both next time I order supplements.


What 17-HD and Fenugreek is everyone taking ? I was thinking about ordering the IDS's Testofen and 17-HD to try out.


Also another thing to note:

Just because something is unmethylated does not mean it is not toxic. For example, if you take Furazadrol or Prostanozol, well typically people take those compounds in the 300mg area. Fair high doses. When I took Furazadrol, I just stuck to 150mg (which is 3 capsules recommended on the bottle) and blended the compound in oil for better uptake.


Ok, so let's think about Superdrol and Phera-Plex. Superdrol has good potentcy @ 10mg. Phera-Plex (DMT) does as well at 10-15mg. My friend only uses 15mg maximum and gets good results. These are effective at such low doses due to the methylation that allows them to pass through the liver without being destroyed.


Back to Prostanozol and Furazadrol, well when you ingest 300mg+ of this, you are not getting 300mg+ in your blood stream due to 'losses' of the compound. You can easily come to the conclusion that these losses are occuring in the liver, during the 'first pass'. Where else would the compound get lost (deactivated) ?

It is not that the compound losses are not harmful at all.

Really people who take mega amounts of non-methyls should just stick to methyls because it is all relative. In the same respect, if you do not want to take methyls and take LOW DOSES of non-methyls then your results will probably not be as great.

So how do you address both these issues ? Injectables.

 

[pantera101]

It seems vyotech's 17-HD is the better option.I used ids's and felt great the first day,the first time.It tells you to take it twice a day.After the first time,I never felt anything.I think it's a mix of herbs.Suposively one is close to a designer.It's suposively lacking one thing.

 

[ReaperX]

Ok, I see nutra sells Vyotech 17-HD. I'll try it sometime.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Ok, I see nutra sells Vyotech 17-HD. I'll try it sometime.

I've used it back in the day. It's prob. the best pre-workout stim I've ever taken. Ups strength, mood, etc.. It's pretty nice..

I did use the IDS version though.. But, they're supposed to be the same. Oh, and I believe that it works best on an empty stomach, in fact, I'm nearly certain.

 

[pantera101]

I've used it back in the day. It's prob. the best pre-workout stim I've ever taken. Ups strength, mood, etc.. It's pretty nice..

I did use the IDS version though.. But, they're supposed to be the same. Oh, and I believe that it works best on an empty stomach, in fact, I'm nearly certain.

IDS's isn't methylated.I think I heard one say it's at twice of 17-HD's doses.Although it seems most like 17-HD better.Prob cause of the methylation.

 

[DriverDan]

To the OP: Check the blood tests that were posted in the ALRI section. No one had elevated liver values.

 

[sogone2day]

there is blood work on jungle warfare in another thread as i was a tester. Liver values after 4 weeks were a little off bit but nothing significant. An i gained about 7lbs.

 

[ReaperX]

riseboi's blood tests are missing.

I really wouldn't be worried about liver enzymes. I don't understand everyone's weird obsession with liver and liver enzymes.

I think I've had the highest liver enzymes out of everyone on this board.

My ALT/AST were well over 500.

They went down. I got multiple bloodwork over it. It is no big deal.

People need to be more worried about their lipid levels.

 

[slow-mun]

IDS's isn't methylated.I think I heard one say it's at twice of 17-HD's doses.Although it seems most like 17-HD better.Prob cause of the methylation.

I hate to break the news to you, but...............

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will explain how this product bothers me on an unparalleled scale. It is what is wrong with the industry. Shawn Ray uses it…hmm. This product is deceptive, trying to sound like a prohormone or even a potent steroid. The company has stated they did not decide on the name or try and be deceptive it was what the “scientist” (seriously) named it...so that's what they went with...HAHAHA! Even if they have a "scientist" of some sort, which they probably don't, that guy is not in control of their financial fate in the naming/marketing/advertising of the product.

17-HD (17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone): To review the choice of name here, by marketing NOT SCIENCE…let’s review.

1.)17 – As is c17a, the 17th carbon at the alpha position is where anabolic steroids have their potency and toxicity and often is where a methyl group is as attached.
2.)Halo – Besides being a great X-Box game, it is another group of steroids such as the popular halotestin, also halodrol is quite popular in the prohormone world.
3.)Methyl – See #1. Also – see buzz word of the year (#2 is ethyl ester)
4.)Dianadrone – Diana(bol) aka methandrostenolone, comes pretty close to hitting the whole 17-HD name is one fall swoop.
5.)17-HD, or 17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone, sounds like a chemical compound doesn’t it? Sounds like one heck of a methylated potent oral steroid. Right?

Guess what? It’s not. Matter of fact it’s just a bunch of herbs. I’d say this is pretty deceptive so far, but lets get into the useless or even counterproductive part.


Here is the ingredients according to the write-up:

17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
Smilax Officinalis
N.O. Oliliacae

Betaecdysterone 100mg
Wild yam extract 100mg
Glabra 100mg
Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
Citric acid 50mg

__________________________________________________ ________________
We'll start with wild yam and go from there.
Wild Yam is great at regulating estrogen...there's a potent benefit! And I will quote:

"Wild yam has been used for menstrual cramps or pain, menopausal symptoms, rheumatic conditions, and gallbladder complaints. Wild yam is sometimes suggested as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy. While components of wild yam are chemically manufactured into the hormones progesterone or estrogen, the body is unable to use wild yam in the same way."
http://www.drugs.com/MTM/wild_yam.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Ge Gen is aka kudzu and I quote:

"Chemicals extracted from kudzu include isoflavones known as daidzein, daidzin, genistein, and puerarin. Isoflavones are plant chemicals that have estrogenic and antioxidant effects."
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...Ge+Gen,00.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

How 'bout Smilax? Let's go for the trifecta shall we? Smilax officinalis is also known as sarsparilla.
I'll quote again...

"In the United States, sarsaparilla is sold primarily as an oral remedy for skin conditions such as psoriasis. It is believed that chemicals in sarsaparilla may attach to endotoxins (the remnants of bacterial cells) that are common in individuals with psoriasis and certain other conditions. By eliminating or reducing the amounts of endotoxins in the body, sarsaparilla may help to relieve the condition.

Orally, sarsaparilla also has weak diuretic and laxative effects, which may make it useful in promoting the loss of excess water from the body and also in treating mild constipation. It may also promote sweating, which may help to reduce fever. Additionally, sarsaparilla contains chemicals that may act as a mild expectorant – a substance that may loosen bronchial mucus and promote coughing. However, none of these effects has been verified through clinical studies and they may vary greatly depending on the amounts and type of sarsaparilla that is used. "
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...inalis,00.html
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Hmm...well we've established it raises estrogen, has laxative effects...is there anything else this miracle supplement can do for me you ask?

Well I am glad you asked...Glabra is cute renaming (as every ingredient is and the product itself) of Glycyrrhiza glabra, aka Licorice. Licorice you say? Yes, THE ultimate bodybuilding supplement. And I will quote:

"Licorice is also a mild laxative. Large doses of glycyrrhizinic acid and glycyrrhetinic acid in liquorice extract can lead to hypokalemia and serious increases in blood pressure, a syndrome known as apparent mineralocorticoid excess. These side effects stem from the inhibition of the enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (type 2) and subsequent increase in activity of cortisol on the kidney. 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase normally inactivates cortisol in the kidney; thus, licorice's inactivation of this enzyme makes the concentration of cortisol appear to increase. Cortisol acts at the same receptor as the hormone aldosterone in the kidney; thus, the effects mimic aldosterone excess, although aldosterone remains low or normal during licorice overdose. Cortisol does not actually increase either; however, its activity in the kidney effectively increases due to the disabling of this enzyme. To decrease the chances of these serious side effects, deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) preparations are available.

Licorice affects the body's endocrine system. It can lower the amount of serum testosterone, but whether it affects the amount of free testosterone is unclear. A PubMed search for licorice AND testosterone will provide additional information."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice

Well, cool, Licorice decrease testosterone, increases blood pressure and may increase catabolic hormones. Oh yeah, and again its a laxative.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

So lets tally up the results: we got elevated estrogen, decreased testosterone, increased cortisol, increased blood pressure, and 2 laxatives.

Lastly, there is one ingredient listed that, in fact, does not exist…so I can’t tell you what it is other than it is an herb. N.O. (sounds like Nitric Oxide – Buzz Word!) Olilicae. Sorry. Given the collective data one WHAT IS IN THERE, I wouldn’t hope for much.

Well the only thing of benefit I see here is the 50mg of Vitamin C (citric acid), which doesn't even meet the lowly RDA. Sweet formulation. Really.

Good luck to anyone who uses this. The supplement industry loves you.
__________________
Shawn Wells, MPH, RD, CISSN
Chief Clinical Dietitian
Certified Sports Nutritionist

 

[pantera101]

I hate to break the news to you, but...............

You hate to break what to me?

 

[slow-mun]

You hate to break what to me?

Did you not read the entire post about 17-HD?:frustrate

 

[pantera101]

Did you not read the entire post about 17-HD?:frustrate

Yeah I read it.Many like the supplement alot.The guy at the supplement store who has straight up told me not to buy a supplement a couple of times,and also told me it's pointless to stack an energy/creatine/pump supp with creatine,told me that it has been there for years,and it is still probably his favorite supplement they carry.I wasn't asking about it,or asking about a type of supplement.He just told me it's what he uses when he cuts cause it makes cardio so much easier.To be exact,I asked him if he stays lean or if he actually cuts.Many say they love the energy it gives you.Theirs one in this thread!

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Yeah I read it.Many like the supplement alot.The guy at the supplement store who has straight up told me not to buy a supplement a couple of times,and also told me it's pointless to stack an energy/creatine/pump supp with creatine,told me that it has been there for years,and it is still probably his favorite supplement they carry.I wasn't asking about it,or asking about a type of supplement.He just told me it's what he uses when he cuts cause it makes cardio so much easier.To be exact,I asked him if he stays lean or if he actually cuts.Many say they love the energy it gives you.Theirs one in this thread!

I think slow-mun was pointing more towards the fact that it's not actually methylated.

 

[pantera101]

I think slow-mun was pointing more towards the fact that it's not actually methylated.

Well thats why I asked "you hate to break what to me?"I didn't see what he was breaking to me.I seen them dis the supplement,but many like it.Some things serve as other purposes and have synergy affects when combined.If thats what he meant,he should of said "it's not methylated."Thats what I would of said anyways.

 

[slow-mun]

Well thats why I asked "you hate to break what to me?"I didn't see what he was breaking to me.I seen them dis the supplement,but many like it.Some things serve as other purposes and have synergy affects when combined.If thats what he meant,he should of said "it's not methylated."Thats what I would of said anyways.

I'm pointing out the fact that its basically a worthless supplement and did so by posting an article by one of the formulators at MAN. If you think its a good supplement then more power to ya. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, b/c it will do me no good. Next time I'll just post 17-HD=UNMETHYLATED, HERBAL, GARBAGE.

 

[pantera101]

I'm pointing out the fact that its basically a worthless supplement and did so by posting an article by one of the formulators at MAN. If you think its a good supplement then more power to ya. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, b/c it will do me no good. Next time I'll just post 17-HD=UNMETHYLATED, HERBAL, GARBAGE.

I have atually never used it.I used IDS's version and got a great rush the first time I took it.I'm just pointing out that many do like it,not all,but many.Thats how all supplements are though.I did research it and thats what I concluded from people who actually used it.Never heard anything positive or negative about increasing test,but most love the energy from it.

 

[slow-mun]

I have atually never used it.I used IDS's version and got a great rush the first time I took it.I'm just pointing out that many do like it,not all,but many.Thats how all supplements are though.I did research it and thats what I concluded from people who actually used it.Never heard anything positive or negative about increasing test,but most love the energy from it.

I've used it as well and had an energy rush that went away with consistent usage. Its not worth the price IMHO. IDS's version is, but the product is still of questionable worth. If people really want a preworkout boost, then things like RPM and R4W are much better options. I'm telling you this, b/c I have wasted a sh!t ton on products that were worthless. I sometimes come off as a d!ck, but I'm trying to save people money.

 

[pantera101]

I've used it as well and had an energy rush that went away with consistent usage. Its not worth the price IMHO. IDS's version is, but the product is still of questionable worth. If people really want a preworkout boost, then things like RPM and R4W are much better options. I'm telling you this, b/c I have wasted a sh!t ton on products that were worthless. I sometimes come off as a d!ck, but I'm trying to save people money.

I'm wanting to try RPM.I have two bottles of drive to use with nolva after m drol.I am going to try hemadraulix aventually.Prob once I run out of xlevol.I absolutely love xlevol!I don't feel wired or edgy,but once I start lifting,i'm ready to go!I didn't like R4W though.I still have most of the bottle sitting in my cupboard.I'm only looking for something else to cycle with the xlevol,instead of using it all the time.

 

[slow-mun]

I'm wanting to try RPM.I have two bottles of drive to use with nolva after m drol.I am going to try hemadraulix aventually.Prob once I run out of xlevol.I absolutely love xlevol!I don't feel wired or edgy,but once I start lifting,i'm ready to go!I didn't like R4W though.I still have most of the bottle sitting in my cupboard.I'm only looking for something else to cycle with the xlevol,instead of using it all the time.

I usually use Hemodraulix, b/c I'm addicted to morning coffee. Stimulant containing preworkout suppplements are usually to much for me if taken to close to the morning. I actually liked R4W better than RPM, but that's just me. I'm anxious to try the new formula of R4W, it looks very good.

 

[pantera101]

I usually use Hemodraulix, b/c I'm addicted to morning coffee. Stimulant containing preworkout suppplements are usually to much for me if taken to close to the morning. I actually liked R4W better than RPM, but that's just me. I'm anxious to try the new formula of R4W, it looks very good.

I have heard liquids are better than pills on average.I have heard good things about hemadraulix though.I'll probably try it,and stick with xlevol and that if I like it.It took me lots of money and time to find one I like.(xlevol)I highly reccomend it.You can search "try xlevol" to see what i think about it.I'm kind of scared to try hemadraulix though,even though I heard so many good things.Thats how R4W was.I knew I would like it and noticed nothing.I think it was the new version too.The one thats blue and silver with the bencher on it.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

I'm concerned about my lipid levels and especially my libido.

That's why I've been asking a lot about JW.

riseboi's blood tests are missing.

I really wouldn't be worried about liver enzymes. I don't understand everyone's weird obsession with liver and liver enzymes.

I think I've had the highest liver enzymes out of everyone on this board.

My ALT/AST were well over 500.

They went down. I got multiple bloodwork over it. It is no big deal.

People need to be more worried about their lipid levels.

 

[pantera101]

I'm concerned about my lipid levels and especially my libido.

That's why I've been asking a lot about JW.

Take you cycle support and niacin.(not the flush free)I completely agree with reaper too.I don't get the obsession over the abuse to a self healing organ?Anyone else kind of like the taste of cycle support?I got the chocolate and kind of like it in a sick way.It leaves a nice aftertaste that last and last.I drink it straight too.

 

[ReaperX]

Well, there has been a very recent article that indicated that lower LDL and higher HDL levels didn't do jack towards heart disease. This came off from perscription drugs (i.e. Vytorin and Zetia). These perscription drugs were clinically shown to have lowered LDL and raise HDL.


That means a few things here:

1. Since HDL/LDL levels apparently don't have any correlation on reducing risk of heart disease, well then what does ? The answer seems to still be correlated with cholesterol.......possibly.

2. Since Anabolic Innovation has several ingredients that specifically address HDL/LDL. Well, if Vytorin/Zetia which have been proven to address these don't lower heart diease, this kinda makes Cycle Support/Life Support less useful. (The ingredients that address lipids).

3. Since we don't know specifically what the exact mechanism of heart diease is (despite having perscription drugs that work not reduce heart disease), you very well may be f.ucking yourself by taking harsh orals that destroy your lipid profiles. Why ?

Because even if you manage to get them back to normal (either through a hospital or on their own), this is not to indicate that you are not taking a gamble towards your own possible increased risk of heart disease. The heart diease risk is suddenly now allegedly not related to HDL/LDL, so even if you get those back in check you still might be f'ed anyway. That's kinda a scary proposition (at least to me).

 

[pantera101]

Fvck it all!!!Live for today and don't worry about it!!!Give me a syringe plumb full of test,heroine,meth,and gh......:woohoo:

 

[ReaperX]

This is just my own personal opinion:


If you are going to use Jungle Warfare, you might as well just run H-Drol instead. They will probably do equal damage to your body (just my own guess), but you'll come out ahead more with H-Drol and at least you know what is in H-Drol.


From general feedback, JW seems like sides in a bottle (not to mention more expensive than H-Drol).

 

[pantera101]

Did you change your avi again reaper?Or is that the same one?It makes me laugh everytime!

 

[slow-mun]

This is just my own personal opinion:


If you are going to use Jungle Warfare, you might as well just run H-Drol instead. They will probably do equal damage to your body (just my own guess), but you'll come out ahead more with H-Drol and at least you know what is in H-Drol.


From general feedback, JW seems like sides in a bottle (not to mention more expensive than H-Drol).

I'd like to echo that opinion. Some of their products are great, but this is one that I will never touch again. You are better off finding something else to use. The first version was good, but not enough to go through any amount of trouble trying to procure one.

 

[ReaperX]

Uh, its slightly different, but the 'man on man' concept from Brokeback Mountain is still there.


It appears that making any types of gains from Jungle Warfare is a stretch vs. H-Drol. Not worth it, IMO.

 

[sogone2day]

Before jw
Lipid Battery

Triglyceride .75 mmol/L

Cholesterol 2.61

HDL .89 [>.90] WAS A BIT LOWER THAN NORMAL

LDL 1.38

Total Chol/HDL ratio 2.9


Electrolytes
Sodium 139
Potassium 4.0
Chloride 102
Total Co2 28
Anion Gap 9


Bilirubin total 42 umol/L [<20] I'm high on this one


Test Am 18.8 nmol/L

Estraidol 165 pmol/L

TSH 1.87 mU/L


Alkaline Phospates 80
Alt 22
Ast 20

Creatinine 103
calculated GFR >60


After JW

alkaline phosphatase 85

alt 26

ast 29

creatinine 102
calculated gfr >60


cholesterol 2.81


triglycerides .47

hdl .82 dropped a few points


ldl 1.78


Bilirubin 22
went down a lot not sure whats up here i think maybe melanotanII might be a cause of the high beginning

Testosterone am 21.6 up from 18.8 few points

Estradiol 135 down 30

 

[ReaperX]

Unless this is some type of new system, I don't really understand your blood results.

HDL/LDL/Total Cholesterol should be in whole numbers.

My most recent blood work shows my

Cholsterol=142
Triglycerides=37

 

[ReaperX]

I'm not understanding your results at all, unless you are throwing in decimal points where they should not be.

This is what my first page metabolic panel looks like


Glucose: 94
BUN: 14
Creatinine: 1.0
Sodium:143
Potassium: 4.2
Chloride: 105
CO2: 32 (high)
Anion Gap: 10
Calcium: 9.2
Total Bilirubin: 0.4
Alk Phosphatase: 57
SGOT (AST): 25
SPGT (ALT): 36
Total Protein: 6.9
Albumin: 4.6
Globulin: 2.3 (low)
Alb/Glob ratio: 2.0
GFR=102

Cholesterol: 142
Triglycerides: 37


I have more tests done, but you get the idea.

My blood work looks vastly different from yours.

 

[sogone2day]

no thats how they came from the doctor not sure and were in mmol/L and such whatever also the tests were here in canada so i dunno if that makes a difference

 

[ReaperX]

Ok yeah, that makes sense.

My markers were measured differently than yours.

I think the majority of them were measured in: g/dL or mg/dL.

 

[ReaperX]

Ok, so in mg/dL units here are your results:

Trigylcerides

.75 mmol/L= 13.5 mg/dL-old
.47 mmol/L= 8.459 mg/dL-new


Cholesterol

46.98 mg/dL-old
50.58 mg/dL-new



I am pretty sure I am converting these right.


Based off of what my health markers show:

Normal Cholesterol: 120-199 mg/dL
Triglycerides: 0-150 mg/dL



I guess your triglycerides are within normal range. Your cholesterol is insanely low.


Do you have low testosterone ? I haven't seen cholesterol that low before. Mine falls in at 142 mg/dL.


I don't really understand your lipid levels. I must be reading this wrong, or somehow not converting properly.


Your testosterone increase from JW might have been a direct result from a higher level of cholesterol.

 

[ReaperX]

http://health.howstuffworks.com/cholesterol.htm/printable