OHTest DOES supress natural test-production right?

[Kerruptt]

I was reading another post on this forum somewhere last night and a post implied that natural test production would not be shut-down. The only thing I"ve ever heard doing this would be anavar so just to clear things up it IS supressive correct?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Var shuts you down.

 

[Kerruptt]

Not everyone.

Studies have shown natty test production at even high doses.

 

[windwords7]

Anything androgenic shuts you down eventually. Some things are simply slower than others.

 

[bigswole30]

Well VPX who does more research on ph's than any company has found that it actually raises LH and FSH with use.

 

[windwords7]

Well VPX who does more research on ph's than any company has found that it actually raises LH and FSH with use.

Prove everything you just said.....

 

[SoupBone1]

That would be nice....endless cycle!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Not everyone.

Studies have shown natty test production at even high doses.

Wrong. Studies show that 2.5mg of Var suppresses you. Check PubMed.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I did it for you.


Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial. PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

 

[maggmaster]

vpx does bullshit in house studies that prove everything they want them to prove. Bobos right ANYTHING androgenic will shut you down. If we had a pure anabolic it MIGHT not shut you down.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Not really because the metabolites will still shut you down. Actually estrogen metabolites are more supressive (E2, 17-methyl E2, etc..) In other words, exogenous hormones suppress you

 

[SoupBone1]

vpx does bullshit in house studies that prove everything they want them to prove. Bobos right ANYTHING androgenic will shut you down. If we had a pure anabolic it MIGHT not shut you down.

T-mag also claims that studies indicate that 4-ad won't shut you down by itself....or at least that 12-16 week cycles of JUST 4-ad (NOT Mag-10) should be safe.

 

[size]

Anavar will inhibit HPTA even at low dosages. i had blood work prove it.

 

[Kerruptt]

NOT WRONG

Supression..yes
will you be completey shut down from var alone...NO



It inhibits the HPTA by the 5-6th day. But it may never shut you down completely. In some studies that were done to determine if Ox shuts down LH the boys only experienced a drop of 34-89%. But they were still not shut down completely.


[1]J Pediatr 1979 Apr;94(4):657-62

The effect of synthetic androgens on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis in boys with constitutionally delayed growth.

Hopwood NJ, Kelch RP, Zipf WB, Hernandez RJ.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

NOT WRONG

Supression..yes
will you be completey shut down from var alone...NO



It inhibits the HPTA by the 5-6th day. But it may never shut you down completely. In some studies that were done to determine if Ox shuts down LH the boys only experienced a drop of 34-89%. But they were still not shut down completely.


[1]J Pediatr 1979 Apr;94(4):657-62

The effect of synthetic androgens on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis in boys with constitutionally delayed growth.

Hopwood NJ, Kelch RP, Zipf WB, Hernandez RJ.

No, your wrong. No steroid completely shuts you down. If you were, you'd be in a hospital. Anavar supresses you just as much as any other AAS, thats the point. You still produce testosterone even with high doses of tren, test adn every other AAS but your natural production of noraml levels in inhibited and will continue to be until the AAS is discontinued. THe perception that Var doesn't shut you down as much as other steroids is BS.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1976 Dec;83(4):856-64 Related Articles, Links


Effect of an anabolic steroid (metandienon) on plasma LH-FSH, and testosterone and on the response to intravenous administration of LRH.

Holma P, Adlercreutz H.

Plasma levels of testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) as well as the response of LH and FSH to the intravenous administration of 100 mug of luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LRH) were measured in 16 well-trained athletes (mean age 30 years) before and after 2 months of daily oral intake of 15 mg of metandienon, and anabolic steroid (Anabolin, 17 alpha-methyl-17beta-hydroxy-1,4-androstadien-3-one, Medica, Finland). All athletes continued to train regularly, just as they had done for several years. During administration of metandienon the mean plasma testosterone level fell 69%, from 29.4 +/- 11.6 nmol/1 to 9.1 +/- 7.5 nmol/1. The mean plasma levels of LH and FSH also fell significantly (P less than 0.001 and P less than 0.01, respectively), both about 50%. Because LH and FSH levels were low after administration of the steroid the maximum stimulation values after LRH administration were also lower than pre-treatment values although the mean increments did not differ significantly before and after administration of the anabolic steroid. However, after treatment, the FSH response curve had a biphasic pattern in most subjects, with peaks at 10 to 20 and 50 to 60 min after the iv injection of LRH. Administration of LRH after the treatment period had no effect on FSH secretion in two subjects and no effect on LH secretion in one. Our results show that administration of an anabolic steroid causes a pronounced lowering of plasma levels of testosterone, LH and FSH but causes no gross alteration in the response of LH secretion to stimulation by LRH. The reason for the biphasic response pattern of FSH to LRH administration in most subjects is not known.

And thats D-bol. In steroid terminology D-bol "shuts you down". Anavar will do the same. But if you want to literally define shut you down as in 0 production, nothing shuts you down then.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

BTW- You can qualify for HRT if your producing as much as 70% of normal values, so Var's ability to supress as much as 34-89% is pretty damn significant.

 

[windwords7]

BTW- You can qualify for HRT if your producing as much as 70% of normal values, so Var's ability to supress as much as 34-89% is pretty damn significant.

Indeed Bobo. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[Fastflight]

Well done,it´s only the ads,that makes you belive in things

even if they look scientific.

It´s very intersting to see,that Testosterone does not alter your levels at 50mg/month and increases gh.
I wonder how much test is needed to see a significant decrease in LH/FSH/Test-Plasmalevels.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I was reading another post on this forum somewhere last night and a post implied that natural test production would not be shut-down. The only thing I"ve ever heard doing this would be anavar so just to clear things up it IS supressive correct?

Looks like everyone has got you covered....but let me give you a little trick I use to figure these kinds of things out.

When it doubt, assume for the worst If VPX says it, be in doubt!

 

[THEBRAKES]

And thats D-bol. In steroid terminology D-bol "shuts you down". Anavar will do the same. But if you want to literally define shut you down as in 0 production, nothing shuts you down then.

good posting - except this one point....remember supersoldier's M1T thread?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12132&page=2&pp=30

post #45 his test is 0.00

BUT, all the following occurred to make that happen:
- heavy drinking that weekend
- exactly 90 minutes after popping the pill (when it is strongest)
- several days into the cycle, which is when M1T generally hits hardest

your original point remains strong - PH/AAS shuts your test down such that the levels (non-zero or otherwise) are virtually insignificant.

a little off-topic: about how much time does it generally take your body to get back to, say, 90% of pre-cycle test production? i know it varies person-to-person, but is there an accepted range? of course using proper PCT...let's say nolva only.

 

[chasec]

Well VPX who does more research on ph's than any company has found that it actually raises LH and FSH with use.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahha



:goodpost: NOT!


ahahahahahahahahahahhaa

 

[Dwight Schrute]

good posting - except this one point....remember supersoldier's M1T thread?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12132&page=2&pp=30

post #45 his test is 0.00

BUT, all the following occurred to make that happen:
- heavy drinking that weekend
- exactly 90 minutes after popping the pill (when it is strongest)
- several days into the cycle, which is when M1T generally hits hardest

your original point remains strong - PH/AAS shuts your test down such that the levels (non-zero or otherwise) are virtually insignificant.

a little off-topic: about how much time does it generally take your body to get back to, say, 90% of pre-cycle test production? i know it varies person-to-person, but is there an accepted range? of course using proper PCT...let's say nolva only.

You still produce extremely small amounts that are not detectable. Complete shut down means no LH, no test, no estrogen, etc...

Since your body senses exogenous amounts, free testerone will be aromzatized at a MUCH quicker rate.

As for a time period, its almost impossible to tell because recovery depends on the androgen used and the lenght of use.