Proposed "lean bulker" test/EQ cycle
- 03-28-2008, 11:17 PM
Proposed "lean bulker" test/EQ cycle
Well fellas, its been a while but I'm back on the scene. I'm currently looking to run a "lean bulker" and am looking for some tips and advise. Let me start of with the proposed cycle..
Weeks 1-14 test enan. 600mg/wk
weeks 1-13 EQ 500mg/wk
weeks 15-18 igf-1 60mcg/day
weeks 16-19 Tamoxifen citrate 40/40/30/20
Now for the age old question, my question is.. knowing that EQ is known for its appetite increasing capabilities could it also be beneficial as a lean bulker since is also increases red blood cell count aka vascularity?
Can you guys help me make the best of this lean bulker as possible!?
I wanted to end the cycle with primo but i am unable to obtain it and am not willing to end with winny because i'm already losing my hair and my joints can barely handle what i work out with now as it is naturally. Any suggestions with something to help lean me out at the end of the cycle will be greatly appreciated.
Quick background info, i actually ran basically this exact cycle about 2+ years ago as a BULKER with great results and my one and only injectable cycle and have been working out naturally ever since with for a total of 5+ dedicated years of pushing heavy ass weight around.
My diet is what i've been playing around with for the last few years as i (until now) wanted to remain drug free and still get the most out of my workouts. My job allows me to have a VERY strict diet. Every morning i have 4 eggs (3 whites and 1 whole) at 730, a protein shake at 1030, my 1215 lunch either consists of 10oz haddock or chicken , 8oz salmon or steak, or tuna and brown rice. All Lunches always also have a cup of broccoli or rice or potatoes. Protein shake at 4, workout at 5 another shake when i'm done with 2 spoonfuls of honey to spike the insulin levels and dinner 2 hours later with snacks before 10.
One more thing, my stats are i'm 6' 216 with currently 10% body fat..
- 03-29-2008, 06:50 AM
if you are trying to lean bulk make sure you get an AI to keep down the bloat. Why dont you try anavar to end it or even epidrol?
how much did you gain on bulker the last time you ran this?
- 03-29-2008, 08:39 AM
test will decrease bodyfat. EQ will help with hardness and vasc., and the igf will get u down another 1-2% so i think ur fine.
03-29-2008, 09:09 AM
03-29-2008, 09:20 AM
i think you should push PCT to week 17 starting...
the var i havent used before but id say around 50mg ed for weeks 11-16.....epidrol would be good too and alot cheaper. You could run that 30/40/50/50 weeks 13-16
03-29-2008, 12:59 PM
i noticed nothing really from var under 60mg. and even at 100mg the effects were mild at best. i would sugget going with and epi . it will get you lean as **** and kill all estro in your system getting you dry and hard.
03-29-2008, 06:58 PM
Sorry if this makes me sound ignorant but what exactly is epi and how do you suggest running it? I've never heard of it until i came to this forum.. is it just an anti-e? And how about the 40mg dosage thats recommended and when during my cycle do you reccomend..
03-29-2008, 09:36 PM
dont think that test/EQ wont make you lose hair at those dosages. if you're prone, i almost guarantee some loss if you dont take precautions.
otherwise, i'm ok with the cycle in general. EQ will certainly make you hungrier (good or bad depending on goals of course), and yes it does increase vascularity a good bit.
people say "lean bulker" and it can be a bit confusing as to what they mean...i generally assume they mean that they dont want to look like a balloon ON the cycle, nevermind the afterwards part...other people mean that they want to end up much harder and veinier than before, and just put on pure muscle with no fat. whichever your goal is, i think these points are applicable:
1) test and EQ both aromatize. you very likely will retain water and LOOK kinda bloaty on the cycle (as opposed to rock hard like you might if you were on, say, winny or var solo)
2) without a 5A-reduced steroid in the mix, you arent going to get real hard on the cycle (muscles, not the other thing that gets hard...)
3) you're already a big boy, i wonder how much extra you'll have to eat to gain on the cycle...probably not much if you go with such strong ammunition as test and EQ....anyway, you'll be the best evaluator of that.
4) the first 3 weeks are gonna be BORING. why no jumpstart?
03-30-2008, 02:21 PM
Well first let me start by saying, thanks for the input. I'm not really sure what you meant by "no one doing old school injectable cycles on here anymore" but i'll take it as constructive criticism.
1. I was thinking about taking the nolva or letro e3d's or so to keep bloating to a minimum
2. Would you suggest me starting to cycle with 4 weeks of var at say 80mg/day and ending the last 5 weeks (11-15) at the same dosage to keep the "muscles hard"??
As for gaining weight.. unfortunately i do not gain very easily and i'm going to have to really up my calories to get my desired look but im planning on increasing my already clean diet to add the extra calories/protein i need.
and have you had any experience with epistane?
03-30-2008, 03:14 PM
epistane is good and has an anti e effect some would say. It gives lean gains n nice strength gains, at least it did for me. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than high dosed var thats for sure!!!
03-30-2008, 07:41 PM
03-30-2008, 07:45 PM
03-30-2008, 09:04 PM
nah trust me i know it was legit i just like winny alot better. halostein was decent for me, primobolan still gives me the best harness and is my best cutting/ pre contest agent.
03-30-2008, 09:15 PM
03-31-2008, 02:16 AM
primo is just an awesome steroid from the sound of it, sounds like the ultimate if you can afford it with no problems.
03-31-2008, 02:39 AM
that said, i prefer tbol to all orals...i am planning a course of h-drol soon, curious to see if it's comparable, seeing as the target hormone is tbol.
as for the AI on your cycle - it's all a matter of preference...for some, they simply CAN'T gain all that extra water weight, for work or whatever...others LOVE the crazy strength gains, smooth joints and mild euphoria you get from excess estrogen. or maybe you wont bloat all that bad...certainly having a good AI on-hand is the best option, because you can always start and stop as needed....i will mention, though, that it stands to reason that a cycle with more estrogen is likely to be more suppressive, as the ERs will be slammed and providing negative HPTA feedback, in addition to ARs...try some deca if you want to hammer the trifecta of suppression! (PgRs)
oh, also 80mg of var has also been known to cause hairloss, and like neph said, a much lighter wallet.
03-31-2008, 04:35 PM
yea var is simply just not cost effective. and primo i run 600-800 mg for as long as i need until i look the way i desire. it makes me rock solid and shreds me up really nice. wonderful for getting me in contest shape.
03-31-2008, 07:18 PM
03-31-2008, 07:38 PM
Real Primo is not easy to find,and when/if you do find it,expect to pay serious cash for a full cycle at an adequate dose.
03-31-2008, 11:53 PM
04-01-2008, 06:37 PM
04-01-2008, 08:48 PM
04-26-2008, 09:46 AM
Ok, so i started my cycle last night but instead of enanthate im doing prop at 150mg eod for 12 weeks to help keep gains leaner SO I THOUGHT.
I went to bed last night and have never been in so much pain in my freaking life. I wake up and feel like i got punched in the ass..... with a metal baseball bat... by Barry Bonds.
Guys, does the injection of prop always hurt so bad every shot???
(i even put the vial under hot water for like 2 minutes before i shot too!!
04-26-2008, 11:02 AM
heating up the oil wont effect the pain factor it just makes it easier to inject. You should get used to it but youre in for a long 12 weeks lol.
04-26-2008, 11:13 AM
cut your prop with eq or something or extra sterile oil, etc. (seriously cut it with something or it will suck doing that for 12 weeks) put some heat pack on the injection site afterwards and rub.
eq and test will bloat you, they have done to me nicely in the past ahhaha even eq by itself. oh yeah i thought test prop is less bloating but it has bloated me just the same, just hits you quicker. its like saying test suspension will be less bloating cuz its faster acting...noway. 150mg eod of prop is alot of test, you will bloat.
so like others have said i agree with running those comps with some AI or even t3 (25mcg)
if you cant afford primo or anavar, test/eq with AI will be 'about' the same for a low budget 'lean' bulker.
04-26-2008, 11:44 AM
I can get an AI but would nolva at say 10ml eod be sufficient?
Also which one should i suck up in the syringe first to help with the pain the prop or the eq?
The pain from the inject is not a problem whatsoever its the 24/7 pain afterword that blows!!!!!!!!
04-26-2008, 03:14 PM
no i was talking about the heavy ester pain after shooting
you can mix whichever first, draw extra bubble and mix it by holding your syringe up and down so on. then take out that extra bubble obviously before shoot.
you mean 10mg not ml of nolva eod? nolva is SERM, so it will protect you from gyno but it wont keep you from bloating, you need aromatase inhibitor (arimidex, letrozole and etc)
goodluck with everything, should be good.
04-27-2008, 10:45 AM
Yes, sorry i was talking about 10ml of nolva but i will get some arimidex tomorrow.. What is the minimal dose of that, that you would recommend me running to keep bloat down but still yield some of the added estrogen benefits? I was thinking 0.5mg e3d's or so? And what will this do to my lipid profile? Would letro be a better option?
04-27-2008, 11:33 AM
ive only used arimidex before, but not for a long time so i cant say much about the lipid profile, im sure it will be messed up by the end anyways due to other cholesterol (your gears)
hopefully someone can answer which is better letro vs arimi
but arimi worked fine for me eod at 0.5mg im sure e3d is okay, i say play with the dosage since this is your first experience with it.
04-27-2008, 09:39 PM
anyone ever shoot prop in their delts before?? Hows that for pain?
My ass is still KILLING me and i can hardly walk/get in and out of bed still.. Did my second shot today..
only 36 more shots to go!!
04-28-2008, 01:01 PM
christ i hate prop...what a waste, IMHO. low concentration means big ML shots, but they still hurt worse than enanthate @ 300mg/ml...you're gonna have to cut it if you got some painful prop. otherwise you'll never get through the cycle. i dont even see the point of prop for 12 weeks...a longer ester would do the same thing with half the shots and no pain...
the only painless prop i've used was human grade (Farmak or BM are both good) or the stuff in EO.
arimidex is easier on most people than letro (letro is stronger but you generally dont need that much AI action, really). .5mg EOD sounds good...but .25mg might be enough.
04-28-2008, 07:02 PM
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