Delayed gyno from SD/Pplex pulse

[Wood]

Well I can say I never thought it would happen to me but it has damnitt. I did a 6 week superdrol pplex pulse cycle, I must say the results where awesome and I felt great the whole time. Well that ended 2 months ago and low and behold my left nipple started hurting and before I knew it there was a lump. I did start with nolva as soon as I felt some pain but I guess it was too late. My right side is fine but my left one hurts like hell.

I've just started Epi hoping it would work but I wanted to share with everyone that just because you do a pulse doesn't mean you'll be ok. I had nolva on hand the whole time thinking i would be ok, looking back I should have run my normal pct and for that matter I don't even think I would have pulsed, i would have just run a straight cycle.

 

[Motox]

good posting pulse is overrated

 

[Wood]

Motox, I don't know that it's overrated but I will say that you still have to worry about the SD delayed gyno. I've run two ohter straight SD cycles and was fine. I guess I pushed it using it to pulse.

What's funny(not really funny) is that I had always read about gyno but thought it couldn't be that bad. Guys if you don't have it or have never had it, trust me you don't want to get it. It hurts and just isn't very pretty on the nips.

 

[Marsh11]

What was your PCT like?

 

[RenegadeRows]

Agreed.

Just because you PULSE doesn't mean your not introducing a steroid into your body. Alot of times you won't recover on the off days, especially from a strong combo like that.

I think in theory pulsing something like Epistane where shutdown is not prevelant is a good idea.

Pulsing something like SD is not a good idea because shutdown is almost guaranteed.

 

[ManBeast]

I think that pulse or no pulse, you should do a full PCT afterwards because of the fluctuating hormones and some inevitable shutdown.

MB

 

[Wood]

I ran nolva for 7 days based on what I read from DrD in the pulse thread. I should add that I took a week off in between so it was really 3 weeks on 1 week off then 3 weeks on then my 7 days of Nolva.

Again, I felt great the whole time. I felt great for 2 months and then it hit me. I'm not saying pulsing doesn't have it's place and I'm also not saying I did it correctly but the reason I shared my gyno is because I want others to know what CAN happen(especially the guys that lurk but dont' post)

 

[Hate4TheWeak]

D@mn bro I'm sorry to hear that, that sucks ass!!! How were you dosing the phera-super??

 

[ManBeast]

Wasn't trying to knock you or Dr. D. I was just stating my opinion on PCT in general. Unless it is going to hurt you, there is no such thing as "too much PCT."

I wish you the best and a speedy recovery from this.

MB

 

[Wood]

Manbeast, I didn't take as you trying to knock me or D. Actually I think I was typing my post on my pct as you where posting yours. There is nobody to blame here except for me. I just want others to realize the risk.

Hopefully this Epi for gyno isn't just bs. So much of the crap I read on these boards I don't know whether or not to believe or if it's just hype to sell products. I can say this, if it works I'll let everyone know and if it doesn't I'll let you know. I'm just pissed because I was getting ready to run some CJC 1295 and now I don't know whether or not I need to wait. Most important thing at this point is getting rid of the gyno. Today is the 7th day on epi and it still hurting like hell.

 

[ManBeast]

Ouch, I've yet to (and hope never) to have to deal with gyno. But I was also always super paranoid about it and my PCT. My PCT often cost more than the rest of the compounds used for the cycle.

I thank you for sharing your experience, and I must say this is one of the most stand-up and honest boards I've ever been on irregardless of the type of board (hobby, lifestyle, etc.).

MB

 

[Ziquor]

Actually there can be too much pct if an AI is involved as they're suppressive too. Some docs think this may be the cause of many gyno cases - too long on an AI (pct). Also I'd be cautious using Epi for gyno. It is a steroid and is also suppressive as it may add fuel to the fire. The only med that's been proven to 'cure' gyno is Letrozole.

 

[ManBeast]

I know there can be too much, which is why i said:
"Unless it is going to hurt you, there is no such thing as "too much PCT."."

MB

 

[Ziquor]

I made my coffee double strength today so I may be reading through everything too fast, only seeing every other word. Don't mind me.

 

[ManBeast]

LOL! I know the feeling... I once made the mistake of just downing one of those large sugar-free energy drinks in like 5 minutes... I was wired for the rest of the hour and a bit of the next, LOL.

MB

 

[maynehood171]

I'm actually going to try and run a 3 on / 4 off pulse protocol with just SD...maybe every 2 weeks I'll take a week off...still planning on running a full PCT...

Though I have seen also where people have stated that an AI during PCT can cause delayed gyno but what are your feelings guys on after PCT is finished to run it?

 

[Ziquor]

I'm actually going to try and run a 3 on / 4 off pulse protocol with just SD...maybe every 2 weeks I'll take a week off...still planning on running a full PCT...

Though I have seen also where people have stated that an AI during PCT can cause delayed gyno but what are your feelings guys on after PCT is finished to run it?

IMO you'd be fine low dosing an AI after a pulse. With something like Super, it's been shown to supress estrogen pretty strongly itself while ON. Many think dosing this every day and having all that estro supression, and then going to an AI for pct - which gives you even more estro supression, after it's suppressed for so long there's a solid chance it could cause a nasty estrogen rebound, hence delayed gyno. It seems like this has happened with ATD more so than other AI's which makes sense. ATD seems to be more suppressive on estrogen than most other AI's. I think this is a good theory & I believe it too. But like I said IMO if you'r not dosing every day anyhow you shouldn't have to worry.

 

[maynehood171]

IMO you'd be fine low dosing an AI after a pulse. With something like Super, it's been shown to supress estrogen pretty strongly itself while ON. Many think dosing this every day and having all that estro supression, and then going to an AI for pct - which gives you even more estro supression, after it's suppressed for so long there's a solid chance it could cause a nasty estrogen rebound, hence delayed gyno. It seems like this has happened with ATD more so than other AI's which makes sense. ATD seems to be more suppressive on estrogen than most other AI's. I think this is a good theory & I believe it too. But like I said IMO if you'r not dosing every day anyhow you shouldn't have to worry.

It's just I searched threads saying that they got gyno/delayed gyno after SD pulsing (one I remember said EOD for 6 weeks) but me giving a 4 - 5 days off in a row should hopefully help with that...just was getting paranoid but do have full PCT in hand just in case*...I'll low dose AI

 

[Wood]

Mayne, I'll have to say that I would never ever touch SD again. Sometimes I don't believe the things I read on these boards and usually I don't worry about any negatives but I'll say this, you don't want the delayed gyno. It sucks. You work your butt off to make your body look good and then something like this f's it up and maybe everyone won't notice it but I do. I would go with something else if I was you. There's just no need to risk it. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[dkkon1]

How are can you possibly attribute your gyno to the s-drol (you ran phera too, which easily could have been the culprit), I don't think you should discourage anyone from taking it, as you admitted yourself that your PCT could have been better, Some people are sensitive to gyno, some aren't, ran with a good pct the chances of gyno on s-drol (or any steroid) is quite low. I'm not giving you a hard time or anything man, just don't think that you should blame s-drol for what possibly might have been user-error. I hope that you get good results with the epi, if not you could try ralox, if that didn't work then maybe letro. Good Luck Man :cheers:

 

[maynehood171]

How are can you possibly attribute your gyno to the s-drol (you ran phera too, which easily could have been the culprit), I don't think you should discourage anyone from taking it, as you admitted yourself that your PCT could have been better, Some people are sensitive to gyno, some aren't, ran with a good pct the chances of gyno on s-drol (or any steroid) is quite low. I'm not giving you a hard time or anything man, just don't think that you should blame s-drol for what possibly might have been user-error. I hope that you get good results with the epi, if not you could try ralox, if that didn't work then maybe letro. Good Luck Man :cheers:

Damn, I'm pulsing SD 3 on / 4 off but might just run it like that for 4-5 weeks...take a week off and switch to Havoc again...now I'm paranoid...I always follow with a full PCT (minus AI) however so I guess we'll just see

 

[Ziquor]

How are can you possibly attribute your gyno to the s-drol (you ran phera too, which easily could have been the culprit), I don't think you should discourage anyone from taking it, as you admitted yourself that your PCT could have been better, Some people are sensitive to gyno, some aren't, ran with a good pct the chances of gyno on s-drol (or any steroid) is quite low. I'm not giving you a hard time or anything man, just don't think that you should blame s-drol for what possibly might have been user-error. I hope that you get good results with the epi, if not you could try ralox, if that didn't work then maybe letro. Good Luck Man :cheers:

I agree. I attribute mostly all gyno/delayed gyno to an improper pct. Or a OTC pct to be exact. Too many people think since these compounds are sold otc the can easily use no pct or a otc pct and have no worries but people need to realize these are steroids. And some are damn strong steroids at that. If you can't take the time to do proper research on SERM's and proper pct and where to find these then you shouldn't be using any of these IMO. Obviously pulsing can be an exception, sometimes...

 

[Hate4TheWeak]

If you can't take the time to do proper research on SERM's and proper pct and where to find these then you shouldn't be using any of these IMO. Obviously pulsing can be an exception, sometimes...

Not this time....... But...............................

I had herd, dat ifs you drinked dat berry favored "VitaminWater" dat dat wuza sufikant pct fo shu!! You comes on here to tell to me dat dat aint sufikant?? Drankin dat wotar gots me F'in swelled up to da max bizth!!!!!!!!:rasp:

 

[neoborn]

I would be interested to know the following:

Length Of Cycle:

Cycle Dosages:

Length of PCT:

PCT Supps Used:

Previous Cycles:

M1T Usage?:

Post PCT Notes:

Length of Time From End PCT To Flare Up:

Previous Gyno?:

Gyno Sensitive?:

SERM Used?:

Type of SERM?:

Symptoms On Cycle?:

How Far Into Cycle Symptoms Appear?:

 

[305Rob]

I would be interested to know the following:

Length Of Cycle:

Cycle Dosages:

Length of PCT:

PCT Supps Used:

Previous Cycles:

M1T Usage?:

Post PCT Notes:

Length of Time From End PCT To Flare Up:

Previous Gyno?:

Gyno Sensitive?:

SERM Used?:

Type of SERM?:

Symptoms On Cycle?:

How Far Into Cycle Symptoms Appear?:

X2,NEO gots the right idea goin here.Much easier to assess things after we see the whole picture.

 

[silverSurfer]

I think too many assumptions were made with the "pulse" method. There is a thread in here somewhere that details the pusling method as a preferred way to minimize side effects and maintain healthier lipid profiles - basically less stress on the liver. This has nothing to do with hormone levels and by no means implies a faster hormonal recovery... but who knows...

 

[MizXXL]

Wood I have made a few posts recently about possible delayed gyno from Superdrol. I went to the doctor as directed and he made the coment that basically myself and everyone here on the boards laughed at and said that it isnt gyno and could be a possible cyst. So I decided to run another cycle of superdrol, the pain has basically stayed the same and the lump is still there. As stated before in my other posts I have my SERM on hand but am pretty much living with the pain in my left nipple and hoping that when I do my PCT it will go away. My question is does this sound like what you are going through and could the information that I am getting be wrong and I am developing gyno? Thanks bro

 

[neoborn]

Individually or Collectively I have seen no resolution or the cause of this delayed 'Gyno'.

I would personally like to see the above details from everyone who is having the problem, unless someone has figured this out. The way to figure this out is to find the commonalities and then we can deduce what is causing it and how to stop it happening.

So far I have seen very little troubleshooting but a whole lot of individuals scrambling.

 

[Mass_69]

This issue has been coming up again lately. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89630-superdrol-gyno.html

A couple of days ago I picked up the May issue of Muscular Development, and PA wrote his hypothesis on SD Delayed Gyno. It had most to do with skewing the androgen/estrogen ratio, and estrogen receptors becoming more sensitive... Nothing ground breaking. He did suggest that the PCT run for SD was done incorrectly, and recommended his own, starting with a SERM and ending with an AI, kinda similar to Dr. D's Running a SERM Inverse to AI (ATD) protocol: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/37790-running-serm-inverse.html

 

[maynehood171]

This issue has been coming up again lately. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89630-superdrol-gyno.html

A couple of days ago I picked up the May issue of Muscular Development, and PA wrote his hypothesis on SD Delayed Gyno. It had most to do with skewing the androgen/estrogen ratio, and estrogen receptors becoming more sensitive... Nothing ground breaking. He did suggest that the PCT run for SD was done incorrectly, and recommended his own, starting with a SERM and ending with an AI, kinda similar to Dr. D's Running a SERM Inverse to AI (ATD) protocol: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/37790-running-serm-inverse.html

WOW! That is funny as I PM'n Easy and Ziquor yesterday asking their opinion about running an AI after SERM...

 

[Wood]

Well, I'm about 12 days into my Epi and nothing noticed on any reduction of pain or size. Currently taking it 3 times a day(morning, afternoon and night)

 

[neoborn]

:toofunny: now this spurs the question is this Epi'something' or Epistane?

If Epistane how many mg's and this is an ED right?

Did you see my FAQ?

 

[Wood]

Neo, I'm using Epistane from IBE and everyday. What AI would you suggest I use? I'll be taking 40mgs starting tomorrow, morning, noon, dinner and night. If there's anything I need to change please let me know.

I appreciate any help.

 

[Hate4TheWeak]

I wouldn't take it at night wood, cause it could affect your sleep. Most ph's are known to do this but if sleeps not a problem for you then go for it....

 

[Wood]

I can't remember if I'm 3 or 4 weeks in to my Epistane but I have to say that my gyno is gone. I have no pain and I can't feel a knot anywhere now. It's pretty amazing, it seemed to go away very quickly once it did. Either that or I've been so busy that I stopped worrying about it and just noticed this morning it's not there anymore. All I can say is "thank you epi"

I'm not one to believe much spewed on this board by others but I'm going to have to say Epi for gyno is the real deal.

Now, once I'm done with the Epi should I run a normal pct with nolva or what? I don't want to get the gyno back. Also, I'm considering running igf during my pct so hopefully that won't affect it.

 

[maynehood171]

I can't remember if I'm 3 or 4 weeks in to my Epistane but I have to say that my gyno is gone. I have no pain and I can't feel a knot anywhere now. It's pretty amazing, it seemed to go away very quickly once it did. Either that or I've been so busy that I stopped worrying about it and just noticed this morning it's not there anymore. All I can say is "thank you epi"

I'm not one to believe much spewed on this board by others but I'm going to have to say Epi for gyno is the real deal.

Now, once I'm done with the Epi should I run a normal pct with nolva or what? I don't want to get the gyno back. Also, I'm considering running igf during my pct so hopefully that won't affect it.

Epi is still suppressive my friend so yes on the PCT. Only thing is I am not sure about a FULL PCT. I tried something different and ran with a 2 week Nolva run of 40mg first 3 days, then 20 for a week then 10 to finish out...then continued on with just the Post Cycle Support. Post Cycle Support was designed to be the PCT for a cycle of Havoc/Epi so you could just run that as your PCT.