Cortisol control during cycle pros/cons

[Nightwanderer]

people have been urging me to save any cortisol control products exclusively for PCT and not to use while on cycle. What I'm having trouble understanding is why a person would want to avoid a cortisol blocker while on cycle. I plan on definately taking it as part of PCT, but I want to learn how exactly reduced cortisol production or cortisol blockage would be detrimental to your gains or otherwise bad for you during your actual cycle.
Bear with me as I am relatively new to this area of the fitness 'scene', but my understanding so far of cortisol's effects on the body specifically related to bodybuilding are as follows, as outlined in the wikipedia: Cortisol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CONS:

Amino acids
Cortisol raises the free amino acids in the serum. It does this by inhibiting collagen formation, decreasing amino acid uptake by muscle, and inhibiting protein synthesis

Cortisol can weaken the activity of the immune system .

It increases blood pressure by increasing the sensitivity of the vasculature to epinephrine and norepinephrine. In the absence of cortisol, widespread vasodilation occurs.



PROS:
It has anti-inflammatory effects by reducing histamine secretion and stabilizing lysosomal membranes.

It stimulates hepatic detoxification by inducing tryptophan oxygenase (to reduce serotonin levels in the brain), glutamine synthase (reduce glutamate and ammonia levels in the brain), cytochrome P-450 hemoprotein (mobilizes arachidonic acid), and metallothionein (reduces heavy metals in the body).

So other than possibly causing more strain on your liver, what would be undesireable? High blood pressure is also very bad for your internal organs and lower cortisol apparently helps keep your blood pressure in check, so, during a cycle it appears to be a trade-off as liver strain and high blood pressure due to cholesterol increase are the two main areas of concern during a cycle.

I'd like to clarify here that I'm not assuming wikipedia is always an authoritative source of information, although its footnotes link to its sources of information. however in the absence of
legitimate and licensed medical advice from an MD, it seems no less substantial than the majority of advice or published articles over the internet. (which often don't include source information or specific study details). I am not attempting to dispute or invalidate anyone's opinion or advice. I am simply trying to learn as best I can, because I feel a cortisol control supp. might help during cycle but don't want to further risk my health for what would be minimal or non existent gains.

 

[MkUltra]

from my understanding (im not a doctor) most steroids are going to be blocking cortisol production to begin with, so it would just be a waste of cortisol blocker

 

[Nightwanderer]

from my understanding (im not a doctor) most steroids are going to be blocking cortisol production to begin with, so it would just be a waste of cortisol blocker

I can't find anything in writing that suggests that. Either that or it's
buried too deep in techincal terms to the point where I'm not using appropriate search terms.

 

[MkUltra]

maybe someone can chime in that knows more about this

 

[Nightwanderer]

I did find this here:
Anabolic Steroids: Mechanisms and Effects

The 2 statements in bold seem to imply cortisol is a trade-off
rather than an outright bad thing.

Anabolic steroids may block the effects of hormones such as cortisol involved in tissue breakdown during and after exercise. Anabolic steroids may prevent tissue from breaking down following of an intense work-out. This would speed recovery. Cortisol and related hormones, secreted by the adrenal cortex, also has receptor sites within skeletal muscle cells. Cortisol causes protein breakdown and is secreted during exercise to enhance the use of proteins for fuel and to suppress inflammation that accompanies tissue injury.

Anabolic steroids may block the binding of cortisol to its receptor sites, which would prevent muscle breakdown and enhances recovery. While this is beneficial while the athlete is taking the drug, the effect backfires when he stops taking it. Hormonal adaptations occur in response to the abnormal amount of male hormone present in the athlete's body. Cortisol receptor sites and cortisol secretion from the adrenal cortex increase.'

So in other words, during cycle in regards to cortisol you're trading nutrient absortion in echange for decrease in recovery time. It seems there's a contradiction there in the Wiki vs this article in regard to nutrient uptake.

 

[pantera101]

I just bought some phosphatidylserine for cortisol during pct.I'm going to use it year round though,except for during cycles.

 

[Nightwanderer]

I just bought some phosphatidylserine for cortisol during pct.I'm going to use it year round though,except for during cycles.

What's your reason for avoiding it on cycle?

 

[pudzian2]

What's your reason for avoiding it on cycle?

I agree.. I think if you use it year round.... depending on your cycle structure of course, it SHOULD NOT be excluded from your cycle.

 

[Nightwanderer]

I agree.. I think if you use it year round.... depending on your cycle structure of course, it SHOULD NOT be excluded from your cycle.

I'm just trying to get people to elaborate on their reasoning either way, so I can be better informed.

On one hand I feel that cortisol control might help you cut up
more, and faster.

On the other, a reasonable hypothesis could be, that by reducing
cortisol even further than what may be reduced by your cycle, you'll cause the rebound to be further exaggerated during PCT. Also, if the body builds tolerance to your cortisol blocker during cycle, then come time for PCT on top of the possible higher cortisol rebound, your blocker might be less effective due to a raised tolerance level.

 

[pudzian2]

I'm just trying to get people to elaborate on their reasoning either way, so I can be better informed.

On one hand I feel that cortisol control might help you cut up
more, and faster.

On the other, a reasonable hypothesis could be, that by reducing
cortisol even further than what may be reduced by your cycle, you'll cause the rebound to be further exaggerated during PCT. Also, if the body builds tolerance to your cortisol blocker during cycle, then come time for PCT on top of the possible higher cortisol rebound, your blocker might be less effective due to a raised tolerance level.

yea i see what you are saying. I think that's a good way of putting it. However cycle length determines the cortisol up-regulation to some degree. that in part, plays a role in why gains plateau and why there IS such a post cycle cortisol rebound. It also depends on the compounds used. I mean, some compounds may block cortisol at the receptor but not reduce production. And the increase in production is the issue that causes the rebound upon cessation of cortisol BLOCKING AAS. now if you do short cycles, the body may not upreg cort production to any great degree, and post cycle only cortisol control would suffice. HOwever longer cycles may benefit from a mid-way start of cortisol modulation in the form of total cortisol lowering (which phosphatidylserine dose and things like retain 2 do not). see what im gettin at?

 

[Nightwanderer]

now if you do short cycles, the body may not upreg cort production to any great degree, and post cycle only cortisol control would suffice. HOwever longer cycles may benefit from a mid-way start of cortisol modulation in the form of total cortisol lowering (which phosphatidylserine dose and things like retain 2 do not). see what im gettin at?

yes, perfectly. In my particular situation I've just started my first cycle, an Epistane stand alone. Now, I may decide to extend the cycle beyond 4 weeks to a maximum of six weeks depending on my general sense of well being and any noticeable sides. At six weeks is it still considered a short cycle, or should I begin a low dose of my anti-cort. (which happens to be retain 2) at week 4 and ramp up through week 6 and keep it going through PCT?

 

[pudzian2]

yes, perfectly. In my particular situation I've just started my first cycle, an Epistane stand alone. Now, I may decide to extend the cycle beyond 4 weeks to a maximum of six weeks depending on my general sense of well being and any noticeable sides. At six weeks is it still considered a short cycle, or should I begin a low dose of my anti-cort. (which happens to be retain 2) at week 4 and ramp up through week 6 and keep it going through PCT?

here is what I would do. Because I actually need to TRY for epistane to shut me down 50+mg 4+ weeks, I would do this:

starting week 4 begin using 500mg PS per day, by the end of week 6 be between 800-1000mg per day and extend that into 1-2 weeks pct then ramp down to 500mg PS per day slowly and discontinue after PCT unless you choose to use say 200-500mg all year

 

[Nightwanderer]

Sorry I'm a bit lost there, by 'PS' you mean what?

 

[pudzian2]

Sorry I'm a bit lost there, by 'PS' you mean what?

oh sorry... phosphatidylserine

 

[pantera101]

What's your reason for avoiding it on cycle?

I haven't started taking it yet,or even recieved it.My reasoning for taking it,is to be in a more anabolic,and less catabolic state.When you have a steroid in your system,you're pretty damn anabolic.So i figure it's a waste of money.I have heard that cortisol levels get high after cycles,so many use one during pct because of this.I just figure i will use one year round.Once i start i might not quit taking it.I just don't see the need for it during cycle.

Everyone has stress in life,and i also have a physical job.One guy on here also said one theory on hardgainers is that they have a high level of cortisol.I have always heard the bad affects of cortisol,so figured i would start using a cortisol reducer......why not.

 

[pudzian2]

I haven't started taking it yet,or even recieved it.My reasoning for taking it,is to be in a more anabolic,and less catabolic state.When you have a steroid in your system,you're pretty damn anabolic.So i figure it's a waste of money.I have heard that cortisol levels get high after cycles,so many use one during pct because of this.I just figure i will use one year round.Once i start i might not quit taking it.I just don't see the need for it during cycle.

Everyone has stress in life,and i also have a physical job.One guy on here also said one theory on hardgainers is that they have a high level of cortisol.I have always heard the bad affects of cortisol,so figured i would start using a cortisol reducer......why not.

look back at my thread on cycle length and compounds used. cortisol will get awefully high towards the latter half of a longer cycle. this is partly why gains plateau. its just that when the anabolics clear, you are left with low T, high E (maybe) and High C (cortisol) it isnt caused by PCT, its caused by the AAS. cortisol control during the latter half of a longer cycle, and into the first few weeks of PCT is a very good idea.

 

[pantera101]

look back at my thread on cycle length and compounds used. cortisol will get awefully high towards the latter half of a longer cycle. this is partly why gains plateau. its just that when the anabolics clear, you are left with low T, high E (maybe) and High C (cortisol) it isnt caused by PCT, its caused by the AAS. cortisol control during the latter half of a longer cycle, and into the first few weeks of PCT is a very good idea.

That makes sence.I wasn't saying that pct caused it.I was under the impression though,that it raised after the stop of the steroid.I will start using it halfway through cycle then.Maybe a small dose year round,and a higher dose during and after cycle.Thats what i do with hawthorne berry.

 

[pudzian2]

That makes sence.I wasn't saying that pct caused it.I was under the impression though,that it raised after the stop of the steroid.I will start using it halfway through cycle then.Maybe a small dose year round,and a higher dose during and after cycle.Thats what i do with hawthorne berry.

sounds good man. best of luck to you