Epistane w/Torm and Supps Review

[props]

I will starting my first Epistane March 31st. Here is my plan.

Week 1: Life Support (AM/PM)
Week 2: Life Support (AM/PM)
Week 3: Epistane 10mg, 20mg x6, Caffeine 200mg, Liver Longer
Week 4: Epistane 20mg x7, Caffeine 200mg, Liver Longer
Week 5: Epistane 30mg x7, Caffeine 200mg, Liver Longer
Week 5: Epistane 40mg x7, Caffeine 200mg, Liver Longer
Week 6: Torm 120mg x3 90mg x4, X-Lean, Creatine, BCAA
Week 7: Torm 60mg x7, X-Lean, Creatine, BCAA
Week 8: Torm 60mg x7, X-Lean, Creatine, BCAA
Week 9: Torm 30mg (if needed), X-Lean, Creatine, BCAA

Any thoughts? This will be my first cycle.

 

[props]

bump

 

[neoborn]

Feel free to check the Epistane faq in my sig and information below. Why the caffeine?

Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


5. Love your Liver!

 

[MrDiode]

you're wayyyyyyyyyy overdoing the toremifene.

 

[props]

Feel free to check the Epistane faq in my sig and information below. Why the caffeine?

I've read, reread, and read again your suggestions. Thanks for this. Using the caffeine for focus. I've been using whiteflood for sometime now and it helps me quite a bit. I really just wanted the caffeine not everything else that comes with WF.

you're wayyyyyyyyyy overdoing the toremifene.

Really? I was following neo's FAQ and others that I have been reading about. What would you suggest?

Thanks for everyones help and feel free to criticize my plan and/or my train of thought.

 

[MrDiode]

Well first and foremost, you're running 90 for 9 days after running 120 for 5. That's too much to start out with, and neo agrees with that.

As for the doses in general.. in regards to neo's FAQ..

I understand the common practice, which I have traditionally followed as well. Yet a lot of the new case studies popping up indicate we may be overdoing it by just a tad.. these studies are on actual people rather than critters, so I'm making an effort to keep it in mind.

Nothing drastic, however I'm going to take a minor reduction and see if it has better results on my lipids..

120 x 3 days, 90x4, and 60 the rest of the way as needed.

We'll see.

 

[poopypants]

Well first and foremost, you're running 90 for 9 days after running 120 for 5. That's too much to start out with, and neo agrees with that.

As for the doses in general.. in regards to neo's FAQ..

I understand the common practice, which I have traditionally followed as well. Yet a lot of the new case studies popping up indicate we may be overdoing it by just a tad.. these studies are on actual people rather than critters, so I'm making an effort to keep it in mind.

Nothing drastic, however I'm going to take a minor reduction and see if it has better results on my lipids..

120 x 3 days, 90x4, and 60 the rest of the way as needed.

We'll see.

I agree with this protocol, maybe even down to 30mg the last week.

 

[props]

Well first and foremost, you're running 90 for 9 days after running 120 for 5. That's too much to start out with, and neo agrees with that.

As for the doses in general.. in regards to neo's FAQ..

I understand the common practice, which I have traditionally followed as well. Yet a lot of the new case studies popping up indicate we may be overdoing it by just a tad.. these studies are on actual people rather than critters, so I'm making an effort to keep it in mind.

Nothing drastic, however I'm going to take a minor reduction and see if it has better results on my lipids..

120 x 3 days, 90x4, and 60 the rest of the way as needed.

We'll see.

Well said! I'm sure this will not only help me but also help quite a few others. Thanks.

 

[props]

Just edited my stack..any more comments or concerns?

 

[neoborn]

Always remember what I suggest is for the general masses. Always go with real time, real life experience!

 

[neoborn]

I would say week 3 10mg for 2 days then 20mg for the rest of the week and the next.