TOREMIFENE CITRATE- BIG CONCERN? or false info?

[pudzian2]

Author L. Rea

Building the Perfect Beast:

Fareston (toremifene citrate) is an estrogen receptor mixed agonist/antagonist.
In fact it is classified as a true Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. This means that
the drug is selective in specific types of estrogen receptors it blocks and those it
activates. For anabolic steroids users this is a real plus due to the reality that many estrogen
receptor antagonists hinder glucose storage and GH release...and Fareston does not.
Sadly, it use also hinders LH/FSH production thus having no value in HPTA
regeneration. In studies upon males there was a marked reduction in HPTA activity
resulting in a decrease in androgen and sperm production. But on a plus side it has a
positive effect upon cholesterol levels favoring HDL (good cholesterol) production and
significant LDL (bad cholesterol) reduction.
An effective daily dosage for Fareston is 60mg/d and it best administered as
such even with its half-life of over 4 days. This is like Clomid in that the daily
accumulation acts as a buffer for physiological adaptation to some extent.
*l note this only due to a bottle I came across that had the right name but the wrong
chemical on the label.
FARESTON (toremifene citrate) Tablets for oral administration each contain 88.5
mg of toremifene citrate, which is equivalent to 60 mg toremifene. FARESTON is a
nonsteroidal antiestrogen. The chemical name of toremifene is: 2-(p-[(Z)-4-chloro-l ,2-
diphenyl-1 -butenyl]-phenoxy)-N,N-dimethylethylamine citrate (1:1)

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Seems like false info to me. I don't have the link, but somewhere on here someone ran torm for a month and then had bloodwork done and their hormonal profile was markedly improved.. I think it was supersoldier, not sure though.

 

[pudzian2]

yea....although author L rea seems to be a pretty knowledgeable guy to have put such info in his book. I would like to get this cleared up if it is even an issue.

 

[jmh80]

I'll just say that man, Torem really gets my libido kick-started. (And nut size.)

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/58797-toremifene-blood-work.html

 

[pudzian2]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/58797-toremifene-blood-work.html

yea i mean this is the first time i've ever heard of it suppressing LH/FSH. It hasnt proven true from people's experience.....

 

[pebble]

I posted that exact article a couple weeks back while searching for info on Torem, but I also found a couple others that seem to say otherwise or at least explain how Torem indirectly helps to restore HPA.

Hoffmann, R., Valencia, A. A gene network for navigating the literature. Nature Genetics 36, 664 (2004)

Although data concerning the outward transport of glucocorticoids from the brain [POU3F3 / Pou3f3 / Spna2] by P-glycoprotein [Abcb1a / Abcb1b / ABCB1] (Pgp [Abcb1a / Abcb1b / ABCB1]) are inconsistent, it has been hypothesized that antidepressants exert their clinical activity in parts by inhibiting Pgp [Abcb1b / Abcb1a / ABCB1], subsequently leading to enhanced brain [Spna2 / POU3F3 / Pou3f3] glucocorticoid levels and the normalization of the HPA axis function.

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Volume-activated chloride channels in neuroblastoma cells are blocked by the antiestrogen toremifene.

Díaz M
Departamento de Biología Animal, Facultad de Biología, Universidad de La Laguna, Tenerife, Spain.

The presence of volume-activated chloride channels has been examined in neuroblastoma C1300 cells using the whole-cell configuration of the patch-clamp technique. Chloride channels could not be detected under isotonic conditions. However, hypotonic challenge induced slowly developed inward and outward anionic currents that exhibited outward rectification and inactivation at the most depolarizing potentials, features that were similar to the currents described in other cell preparations where volume-activated Cl- channels have been associated with the expression of P-glycoprotein [?]. This hypotonicity-activated Cl- currents could be reversibly blocked by extracellular exposure to toremifene, a novel synthetic antioestrogen. The fact that toremifene and its analog tamoxifen, have been shown to block P-glycoprotein [?]-associated chloride channels and to reverse P-glycoprotein [?] associated multidrug resistance in a number of cell lines suggest that P-glycoprotein [?] could be involved in the generation of hypotonic-induced chloride conductance in neuroblastoma cells.

The first study claims that blocking P-glycoprotein leads to normalizing HPA axis function. The seconds study then states that Toremifene blocks P-glycoprotein. Therefore Torem leads to normalizing HPA axis function.

 

[pudzian2]

I posted that exact article a couple weeks back while searching for info on Torem, but I also found a couple others that seem to say otherwise or at least explain how Torem indirectly helps to restore HPA.



+



The first study claims that blocking P-glycoprotein leads to normalizing HPA axis function. The seconds study then states that Toremifene blocks P-glycoprotein. Therefore Torem leads to normalizing HPA axis function.

true....but this all makes me wonder whether or not OTHER SERMS like ralox, clomid and tamox do a better job at more 'directly' stimulating HPTA function.

this doesnt really prove much, but my first three weeks of PCT using torem at 120, 90, 60 after a long injectable cycle (20 weeks ish) went ok. then during week 4 I switched to Ralox, and BOOM my boys dropped, the ache in my left teste dissapeared, and my libido kicked back up. Now this could be a result of accumulated Torem use.....or it could add to the theory that OTHER serms are more suitable for that cause. I was always under the impression torem had stronger HPTA benefits than other serms. Some favored clomid, and some liked ralox. and others used the less favorable cousin of Torem....tamox.

its all trial and error I suppose. Im debating whether or not to use torem or ralox for my next PCT.

 

[pebble]

Well here is another one I found the same day.

Fertil Steril. 2007 Apr 3; : 17412336

The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

[My paper] Dimitrios Farmakiotis , Christos Farmakis , David Rousso , Anargyros Kourtis , Ilias Katsikis , Dimitrios Panidis

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate whether toremifene, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), has a beneficiary effect on all three main sperm parameters. DESIGN: Prospective interventional clinical study. SETTING: University hospital. PATIENT(S): One-hundred subfertile men with idiopathic oligozospermia. INTERVENTION(S): Toremifene (60 mg daily) was administered to all men for 3 months. At baseline and at the end of each month, serum concentrations of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, inhibin B, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were measured. At baseline and at the end, semen analysis was performed and sperm concentration, spermatozoal motility and normal sperm forms were determined. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Gonadotropin, testosterone, inhibin-B levels, total sperm count, sperm morphology and motility. RESULT(S): Toremifene administration resulted in a significant increase in FSH, testosterone, SHBG, and inhibin B levels, as well as in sperm concentration, percentage motility and normal sperm forms. Twenty-two men's partners achieved pregnancy within 2 months of the end of treatment. At the end of the third month, serum FSH levels were significantly higher in the men whose partners did not achieve pregnancy, and total sperm count and normal sperm forms were significantly lower compared with the group of men whose partners achieved pregnancy. CONCLUSION(S): Toremifene administration for a period of 3 months in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia is associated with significant improvements of sperm count, motility, and morphology, mediated by increased gonadotropin secretion and possibly a direct beneficial effect of toremifene on the testes. The above findings are also indicative of a better testicular exocrine (improved sperm parameters) response to treatment in men whose partners achieved pregnancy compared with those who did not. Further randomized, placebo-controlled trials should be conducted to determine whether this particular selective estrogen receptor modulator can be useful as an initial approach in men with oligozoospermia.

There are more studies out there and I have a few more bookmarked on a different computer I will try to post.

 

[king1033]

subbed

 

[pudzian2]

If you want to restore hpta ASAP, clomid is the best. your eyes won't like your choice though. Maybe run clomid at 50mg at bedtime ad tamox at normal dosage every morning. This would be a geat post cycle therapy. 50mg clomid would still greatly affect your hpta and at this dose, sides should be minimal. Taking it before bed would also aid in not feeling the sides as much. Slow-mun recommended this protocol to me for a cycle I had him look over.

yea clomid seems the be the SERM that is more selective towards the HPTA than it is on other things like breasts. I was thinking of using a combination of raloxifene and toremifene to kick off PCT sor for the first week or two an then phasing one out and riding the rest of PCT out with one SERM. BUT toremifene and Clomid should do the trick. Any reason you would still use tamox considering toremifene is an improved, safer, and closely related cousin?

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Doesn't answer your question, but for the record.. I made a thread awhile back about using both torem and clomid in pct. Trip seems to like this protocol: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/83361-nolva-clomid-yeah.html#post1163295

 

[pudzian2]

Nope, I only have tamox on hand. That's the only reason I said that rather than torem. I'd like to wait a while longer prior to ordering anything else for experiments.

ahh i see. yea.... i probably wouldnt use tamox over torem...but i guess better safe than sorry with research availablity

 

[king1033]

i just dont use clomid because of the nasty depression i got, it was horrible everything sucked. i was under the impression too that torem was the ****!! (in a good way) i thought it blew clomid and nolva outta the water

 

[pudzian2]

i just dont use clomid because of the nasty depression i got, it was horrible everything sucked. i was under the impression too that torem was the ****!! (in a good way) i thought it blew clomid and nolva outta the water

well nolva and clomid together is tried and true (side effects aside). this is because they COMPLIMENT each other. Now the issue is....do ralox and torem compliment eachother while providing faster safer and better results? or maybe a different combination of any of the above serms....

 

[king1033]

interesting TIME TO RESEARCH later! if i find anything ill post it