Product Question

[MasterMind79]

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone has experience with the following products? I am 5'10" 175... I am 29 and have been lifting for 3 years, I have a very controlled diet (proper foods and 800cals above maintenance) and all I have ever taken is Protein, creatine and vitamins... I feel I reached that point where nothing is going to increase my size anymore...

My goal is to float in the 195-205 range... So I have been doing some research and I am interested in something that will put on muscle and mass... Now, time is not an issue so I do not need a black market steroiod... Does anyone have experience with the following or anything similar that you would say gives results?

1. Epistine (what brand is good if this?)
2. Havoc (RPN)
3. M-Drol
4. Methyl 1-D (LGS)
5. Tren Xtreme (ameri-cell labs) stacked with Mass Xtreme or take AH-89
6.1-Andro (by AMS) and estra 4,9 diene dione (300mg of Andro and 150mg estra say should put on size)

Again, these products may be very different, so I apologize if I seem all over the place...But that is why I am here, for the experts help! If you have used any of the above what cycle support worked for you, how long was your cylce as well as Post cycle?

I know this a lot and to some are probably saying what the F? These products don't compare, but any assistance is greatly appreciated! Thanks guys and have a great day!

 

[fcpcjc]

5.) with AH-89 would be a good lean mass builder.

I wouldn't run any cycle without Nolvadex as a PCT.

 

[MasterMind79]

5.) with AH-89 would be a good lean mass builder.

I wouldn't run any cycle without Nolvadex as a post cycle therapy.

Yeah that is what i have been reading...I read a lo about taking Nolvadex and clomid as a PCT...I also read good PCT on rt-40 and vas-9 or formadrol... That is my issue. I am getting so confused by everything I have read... Everyone states one thing or another... I just want to be smart because anything is dangerous and I want to take evey precaution necessary.

I am also going to start running blackpowder today as well as my NO...

Do you know if I should use any support while cycling like a liver support?

Thanks for your post and I like the avatar!

 

[RedwolfWV]

Your #1 and #2 are the same chemical.

Really, using the search button will get you far more information than you will be able to read in in one sitting.

 

[fcpcjc]

Yeah that is what i have been reading...I read a lo about taking Nolvadex and clomid as a post cycle therapy...I also read good PCT on rt-40 and vas-9 or formadrol... That is my issue. I am getting so confused by everything I have read... Everyone states one thing or another... I just want to be smart because anything is dangerous and I want to take evey precaution necessary.

I am also going to start running blackpowder today as well as my NO...

Do you know if I should use any support while cycling like a liver support?

Thanks for your post and I like the avatar!

You need a real SERM as PCT. Don't be confused by Gaspari's Novedex. NOLVADEX (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Clomid is the only things I will use for PCT. I don't use any OTC drugs (6-oxxo, formadrol, etc.) Those will not fully get the job done. You must use Nolvadex or Clomid.

I normally end a cycle with Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 (then if I'm still not feeling ''normal'' I do 10mg/ed until i do)

YES, USE SUPPORT SUPPS!

I use:
Milk Thistle
LIV-52
Hawthorne Berry
(Just added) Taurine & Potassium (calf pumps)
General Multi-Vitamins

 

[MasterMind79]

You need a real SERM as post cycle therapy. Don't be confused by Gaspari's Novedex. NOLVADEX (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Clomid is the only things I will use for PCT. I don't use any OTC drugs (6-oxxo, formadrol, etc.) Those will not fully get the job done. You must use Nolvadex or Clomid.

I normally end a cycle with Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 (then if I'm still not feeling ''normal'' I do 10mg/ed until i do)

YES, USE SUPPORT SUPPS!

I use:
Milk Thistle
LIV-52
Hawthorne Berry
(Just added) Taurine & Potassium (calf pumps)
General Multi-Vitamins

Awesome! thanks... And to the other post, thank you as well... I have done research through the internet and on the threads... It is very difficult to trust the info you read. You never know if it is a rep or a user you know? So i figured asking people for their specific experiences kind of weeds those "seeds" out you know?

Thanks guys, I hope more people respond.

 

[neoborn]

1. Epistane / Havoc / Epidrol :thumbsup:

Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


5. Love your Liver!