In PCT after epistane cycle and I'm...Lactating?

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    In PCT after epistane cycle and I'm...Lactating?


    Yesterday I noticed a white spot on my nipple, squeezed it, Im lactating. Both sides. Theyre not sensitive or puffy but definitly lactating.

    Started takig B-6 as soon as I noticed it. 200mg ed.

    For PCT im taking:
    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Aromasin 12.5/12.5/25/25/25

    Anything else I can/should do?

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    Bump

    I'm on day 17 of PCT...
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    What color was the powder in EPI? (Out of curiousity)
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Is it coming out of the center of the nipple or is the white spot on the outside of it? Did it "pop" and then white stuff came out or dose it come out without you touching them? It is possible they are just whiteheads on your nips. If you were lactating your nips should be puffy. Can you continuously squeeze white stuff out or did it just happen 1 time? You def should not be lactating from Epi.
    There has been talk of a batch of Epi that was actually Tren.
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    Most Importantly!

    No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

    SERM + P.C.T Guide

    Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

    Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.


    1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

    Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
    Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
    Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
    Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

    You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

    Example Nolva Dosing:
    Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
    Wk2: 20mg everyday
    Wk3: 10mg everyday
    Wk4: 10mg everyday

    I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

    3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

    1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

    3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

    With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

    Things To Note

    1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

    2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


    3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

    4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


    5. Love your Liver!
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    Quote Originally Posted by No One Knows View Post
    Yesterday I noticed a white spot on my nipple, squeezed it, Im lactating. Both sides. Theyre not sensitive or puffy but definitly lactating.

    Started takig B-6 as soon as I noticed it. 200mg ed.

    For post cycle therapy im taking:
    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Aromasin 12.5/12.5/25/25/25

    Anything else I can/should do?
    Up your B6 to 600mg/day.
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    is it a clear liquid coming out?..see your doctor bro, and be honest with him/her
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    There has been talk of a batch of Epi that was actually Tren.
    I've got a bottle of Epi that has the black top. Are you guys saying I have Tren?
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    Go to the doctor and tell/show them what is going on. Seriously. I would be running to the doctor if that happened to me!.
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    Lets see -

    Bassgod - They're def lactating. Its not whiteheads or anything.

    Matthew - White Top epi with white caps.

    John - Clear liquid. I don't wanna see the doc because I don't want him putting anything about steroids in my file and possibly messing up my health insurance. Plus most docs are retarded when it comes to this stuff. All he'll probably tell me is "Stop taking that stuff and let it get out of your body"...

    I've been taking the b6 @200mg ed for 3 days now. When I woke up this morning I tried squeezing and nothing came out. One 1 side a tiny little bit came out. Im going to continue the b6 for a couple more days and possibly get some p5p. I'll see how everything looks in about 2 weeks when Im done PCT
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Do not do this please. B6 can cause permenant nerve damage at doses higher than 200mg. I know this from personal experience, trust me. Drop the B6 and buy some Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P-5-P) It has no toxicity issues and 50mg of P-5-P is equivalent to 250mg of B6. Take the P-5-P 3 times per day. You may want to look into some bulk 1-carboxy from Nutra. It is L-Dopa and dopamine significantly effects your prolactin levels. Also, did your Epi bottle have a white or black top?
    You can go to 600mg B6/day. Any nerve damage is NOT permanent.

    Once it stops his lactating, he can reduce the dose again.

    P5P is better, but not everyone has a Vitamin Shoppe around for immediate pickup.
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    a batch of Epi being tren? is this true? i have 2 bottles from the first release i hope they are good to go.
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    You are experiencing prolactin gyno, in which case a serm or AI will not help and you need Dostinex. But as already mentioned you should balls up and tell your doctor whats going on. Dostinex is very expensive, although you only need to take it every 3 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No One Knows View Post
    Lets see -

    Bassgod - They're def lactating. Its not whiteheads or anything.

    Matthew - White Top epi with white caps.

    John - Clear liquid. I don't wanna see the doc because I don't want him putting anything about steroids in my file and possibly messing up my health insurance. Plus most docs are retarded when it comes to this stuff. All he'll probably tell me is "Stop taking that stuff and let it get out of your body"...

    I've been taking the b6 @200mg ed for 3 days now. When I woke up this morning I tried squeezing and nothing came out. One 1 side a tiny little bit came out. Im going to continue the b6 for a couple more days and possibly get some p5p. I'll see how everything looks in about 2 weeks when Im done post cycle therapy
    I would try a Mucuna Pruriens product(USP Labs Powerfull, Applied Nutriceuticals Lipotrophin-PM, LG Sciences I-GH-1), b/c those have worked well for me to control prolactin on cycle and in PCT(I've been in your shoes before). If you were to begin using one of those products, you'd likely find relief in about 7-10 days. Also, try and refrain from squeezing your nipples, b/c this can also prolong the lactation, due to overstimulation. This is a far superior alternative to B-6 consumption and and a safer/cheaper option than pharmaceutical cabergoline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No One Knows View Post
    Yesterday I noticed a white spot on my nipple, squeezed it, Im lactating. Both sides. Theyre not sensitive or puffy but definitly lactating.

    Started takig B-6 as soon as I noticed it. 200mg ed.

    For post cycle therapy im taking:
    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Aromasin 12.5/12.5/25/25/25

    Anything else I can/should do?
    SEXY!!!

    bumping it
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    Bro you seriously need to get dostinex, there are 2 different kinds of gyno, estrogen related and prolactin related which causes exactly what you describe. Nolva, aromasin or any other serm or AI will not help. So since you can't tell your doc then get looking for some dostinex. I know this from personal experience.
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    Oh yeah and stacking aromasin and Nolva is kind of redundant being that aromasin is a suicidal inhibitor to the aromatase enzyme resducing estrogen by like 90%. Nolva is specifically designed to stop the estrogen from binding to breast tissue, making it very useful for gyno. But what I am saying is they both reduce estrogen. You should stack aromasin with clomid for it's ability to get your natural test levels back to par.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelEntity View Post
    Oh yeah and stacking aromasin and Nolva is kind of redundant being that aromasin is a suicidal inhibitor to the aromatase enzyme resducing estrogen by like 90%. Nolva is specifically designed to stop the estrogen from binding to breast tissue, making it very useful for gyno. But what I am saying is they both reduce estrogen. You should stack aromasin with clomid for it's ability to get your natural test levels back to par.

    As you said tamox is just to stop the binding of the estro with the tissues, it doesn't mean it stop the production, isn't it that's why there's the theory of AI+Serm taken inverse?
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    WOW so this is from the Black cap epistane tren.. not pure epistane ?
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    The 60 tablet Now brand P-5-P bottle is only $6.99. Go get some. Not sure where you live, but P-5-P is not that difficult to find in grocery or health stores. I bought some a few weeks ago, took me 15 minutes to find it and only went to 2 stores.

    If it were me, I would go to the doctor. Besides, you were taking a legal product. If you feel your doctor is not up to date, you should consider going to a different doctor.

    I hope you get better soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    If it has a black cap, it's tren. Yes, this is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i don't personally known anyone that has run the black cap under any controlled conditions. I know mass spec though.
    Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - What was the final verdict on Havoc/Epistane?

    Please provide your proof to back up your statement. Thank you. Always be careful about what you state to be 100% truth / fact. I'll wait patiently for you to back up this claim. Links etc

    To everyone else, I'm no guru but talk to those that are these statements make no sense what so ever. I have been over this numerous times.

    IBE states that what is in the bottle is what is listed on the label..enough said.

    If you don't want to run it or want to get rid of it I'll take it off your hands for shipping cost!

    Much Love,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    There has been talk of a batch of Epi that was actually Tren.
    Definitely don't start this again.

    This is the first I have heard of this though honestly. Not sure if it is a prolactin problem or not, but if it is, some find cabergoline does the trick.
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    Carbergoline (google search for the "where") is what you need, as this is a prolactin problem NOT an estrogen problem.
    Last edited by diminuendo; 02-17-2008 at 06:45 PM.
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    remove that post ^^^^.

    No source posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    In your link PA states that there are 2 different chemicals in each bottle. I have used the white cap version myself and it was indeed Epistane. What is in the black cap version then?
    Link or quote please and we'll discuss.
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    "I have nipples Greg, could ya milk me?



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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    In your link PA states that there are 2 different chemicals in each bottle. I have used the white cap version myself and it was indeed Epistane. What is in the black cap version then?
    Same exact thing. There were times where we couldn't obtain black tops for the sized bottles we had so we went with white tops to prevent any backorders.

    There was never two versions, all versions were tested more thoroughly than any other company on the market. If any company would like to challenge us on that then they are more than welcome to step forward but we had two separate labs do tests and one of which is a very renowned lab. I can guarantee no one else had X-Ray diffraction done on their compounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD View Post
    Not sure if it is a prolactin problem or not, but if it is, some find cabergoline does the trick.
    Definately a prolactin problem. Cabaser (cabergoline ) or bromocriptine will clear it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelEntity View Post
    You are experiencing prolactin gyno, in which case a serm or AI will not help and you need Dostinex. But as already mentioned you should balls up and tell your doctor whats going on. Dostinex is very expensive, although you only need to take it every 3 days.
    he may also try to get a less expensive version of cabergoline than Dostinex, such as Sogilen or Cabaser.

    at least to me, Dostinex would be about roughly 15$ for 1 tab of 0.5mg, but Sogilen (as example) would be roughly 3$ for 1 tab of 1mg each (which you can take at 1/2 tabs). Cabaser was even less expensive, but possibly more difficult to get.

    because it may take some time to get this stuff in case you need it, i always consider it great insurance to have SOME cabergoline lying around (just for cases like this). and it's great for sex, too...

    THE INTERLOCUTOR
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    Nice to see you over here INT, quality peeps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    This quote from PA: "there is more than one form of epistane apparently. a black cap and a white cap version with different chemicals in each. on top of that, the user feedback varies quite widely." I loved Epistane myself, and the supposed "tainted" batch is long gone from the shelves, so it really doesn't matter anymore I guess. IBE is a great company and I will definitely be purchasing Epi again when it comes out in the near future. I've just read posts from people using the black cap version and they were reporting bad sides as opposed to those who used the white cap version like myself. Those people reported great cycles with little to no sides at all. I'm confused as PA stated in that quote that the 2 different bottles contained 2 different chemicals. Is he just going by the reviews that have been posted or did he actually test both bottles?

    He did not test both bottles. He thinks that the different colored caps means different compounds when really we just had a shortage of a particular color cap. At any rate lets get back on subject. There are numerous threads on this subject on various boards .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interlocutor View Post
    he may also try to get a less expensive version of cabergoline than Dostinex, such as Sogilen or Cabaser.

    at least to me, Dostinex would be about roughly 15$ for 1 tab of 0.5mg, but Sogilen (as example) would be roughly 3$ for 1 tab of 1mg each (which you can take at 1/2 tabs). Cabaser was even less expensive, but possibly more difficult to get.

    because it may take some time to get this stuff in case you need it, i always consider it great insurance to have SOME cabergoline lying around (just for cases like this). and it's great for sex, too...

    THE INTERLOCUTOR
    nice to see you over here bro, welcome
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    also bromocriptine will help ya
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonek View Post
    also bromocriptine will help ya
    see http://pituitary.mgh.harvard.edu/e-s-962.htm for an example comparison between bromo and cabergoline.

    T.I.
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    I tried Carber once for it sexual benefits. I had to stop after the second dose. I felt like I was having a panic attack until it left my system. Constantly felt nervous and scared for about a week till it left my system. Then I also read the thread about it causing heart valve problems....
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    You could always lend yourself out as a surrogate mother or something
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - What was the final verdict on Havoc/Epistane?

    Please provide your proof to back up your statement. Thank you. Always be careful about what you state to be 100% truth / fact. I'll wait patiently for you to back up this claim. Links etc

    To everyone else, I'm no guru but talk to those that are these statements make no sense what so ever. I have been over this numerous times.

    IBE states that what is in the bottle is what is listed on the label..enough said.

    If you don't want to run it or want to get rid of it I'll take it off your hands for shipping cost!

    Much Love,

    Neoborn
    I ran the infamous 'black cap' bottle of Epi and had nothing but GREAT gains and 0 side effects. I've also researched, and if I'm not mistaken, even IF there was a chance it was tren in the caps, there wouldn't be enough there to make a damn difference being the dosage amounts are too low in that little cap and cost to put it in there.

    I just read a thread on these forums about that a week or so ago.

    I did see some black helicopters flying over my house earlier today however.......
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    I've been taking 200mg of b6 every day since I noticed it. After the 3rd day there was nothing. I'm going to continue taking the b6 for another week and end when my pct is finished.
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    Well that's all very nice and dandy, pfff, you'll never go far with that straightforward and logical thinking . I hope your 'logic' works out for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Packenwood View Post
    I ran the infamous 'black cap' bottle of Epi and had nothing but GREAT gains and 0 side effects. I've also researched, and if I'm not mistaken, even IF there was a chance it was tren in the caps, there wouldn't be enough there to make a damn difference being the dosage amounts are too low in that little cap and cost to put it in there.

    I just read a thread on these forums about that a week or so ago.

    I did see some black helicopters flying over my house earlier today however.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Well that's all very nice and dandy, pfff, you'll never go far with that straightforward and logical thinking . I hope your 'logic' works out for you



    I'm going to send those black helicopters your way.
  

  
 

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