never fully recovered. PCT years later?

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    never fully recovered. PCT years later?


    as the title implies i did a few cycles a while back with proper PCT from an ancillary company. of course these companies arent regualted so who knows if my liquid nolva or liquid clomid was legit. unfortunately i have never felt like a have fully recovered. i am just not the same. i have gone to many doctors with hope they would see eye to eye with me but not surprisingly i was not succesful. my hormone levels have always been in the "normal" ranges but far from the "optimal" ranges. so after i long time without recieving any help from doctors that i paid to waste my time, i have decided to try to take matters into my own hands just for a bit. i was thinking of experimentinq with some anti estrogens just to see if i feel anything. i want to try something that could eventually be used long term if i feel better. do any experts have any suggestion and could point me in the right direction? letro? arimidex? nolva? that new nolva that DR D. liked? any help is appreciated

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    What was your cycle/post cycle therapy? How long ago was this cycle? Was this your first cycle?


    Sounds like it could all be in your head if you've been tested and your hormone ranges are normal.
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    What about Dermacrine Sustain (Sustain Alpha)? Thats probably what I would try, since it is legally available and would probably help.

    Nolva seems to be better for preventing gyno than it is for bounce back of the 'boys'. I have seen studies where Clomid was used to treat low LH and Testosterone.

    The closest thing I can find to Clomid legally would be Sustain Alpha.
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    Did you take progestins during your cycle?
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    there are a couple VERY good threads in the PCT section on guys who had this same problem, and btw nothing like HCG and tor to make sure you come back 110%
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    as the title implies i did a few cycles a while back with proper post cycle therapy from an ancillary company. of course these companies arent regualted so who knows if my liquid nolva or liquid clomid was legit. unfortunately i have never felt like a have fully recovered. i am just not the same. i have gone to many doctors with hope they would see eye to eye with me but not surprisingly i was not succesful. my hormone levels have always been in the "normal" ranges but far from the "optimal" ranges. so after i long time without recieving any help from doctors that i paid to waste my time, i have decided to try to take matters into my own hands just for a bit. i was thinking of experimentinq with some anti estrogens just to see if i feel anything. i want to try something that could eventually be used long term if i feel better. do any experts have any suggestion and could point me in the right direction? letro? arimidex? nolva? that new nolva that DR D. liked? any help is appreciated
    if I was you first I would make a cycle with 6-oxo or atd , man for me that stuff works wonders I fell like a teenager, then if nothing more works go with hcg 2x week 250-500iu for a month, but don't forget first do a 6-oxo or atd cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    if I was you first I would make a cycle with 6-oxo or atd , man for me that stuff works wonders I fell like a teenager, then if nothing more works go with hcg 2x week 250-500iu for a month, but don't forget first do a 6-oxo or atd cycle.
    Yeah, 6-oxo works wonders for me as well, but if your having estrogen problems, you may want to taper off. Oh, and what is your cheif complaint? Libido, Bloat, ect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde12 View Post
    Did you take progestins during your cycle?

    all i did was m1t. nothing else. i did not take anything else. this was about 2 years ago.

    my main complaint is erections that are not as hard. libido is down. a slight amount of bloat maybe. i feel tired and down. i just dont feel alive.

    i can go to an online pharmacy and get some generic scripts (clomid, amrimadex, etc) which i almost prefer cuz they seem to be more reliable as far as quality and research. but really i just want the best whether it be a supplement or script.

    were you guys taking 6oxo orally or transdermal? i hate transdermal.
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    i really dont know where to get hcg. if i took it, and it worked i guess that would narrow my problem to my hypothalimus(sp).
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    i really dont know where to get hcg. if i took it, and it worked i guess that would narrow my problem to my hypothalimus(sp).
    in your case it`s easy go to a doctor , expose your problem and I`m sure he will prescribe you
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    i have been to 4 doctors. 3 of them did not give a flying ****. which the did not hide in their 30 second consultations. one endo actually seemed to care but my syptoms were not severe enough to rate medication. although my hormones were low they were still in the normal range. he sympathyzed with me however he could not prescribe me anything which i understand. most doctors are not familiar with using serms and AIs in males.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    i have been to 4 doctors. 3 of them did not give a flying ****. which the did not hide in their 30 second consultations. one endo actually seemed to care but my syptoms were not severe enough to rate medication. although my hormones were low they were still in the normal range. he sympathyzed with me however he could not prescribe me anything which i understand. most doctors are not familiar with using serms and AIs in males.
    I'd go back on cycle... with something less harsh as m1t then follow up with a proper PCT again.

    This isn't the first time I've heard of people being shutdown hard by m1t. I'm glad that stuff was banned before I got my hands on it.
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    that would be cool to go back on cycle and all but my hair is thinner now thanks to the m1t. so thats not really something i am interested in doing. why do you think going back on cycle would help?
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    You should probably go see Dr. John. He's probably the only doctor who will be able to help you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    that would be cool to go back on cycle and all but my hair is thinner now thanks to the m1t. so thats not really something i am interested in doing. why do you think going back on cycle would help?
    wow, m1t even thinned your hair!? Man that **** just sounds horrible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by St1ff View Post
    I'd go back on cycle... with something less harsh as m1t then follow up with a proper post cycle therapy again.

    This isn't the first time I've heard of people being shutdown hard by m1t. I'm glad that stuff was banned before I got my hands on it.
    Why would you want to BACK on a cycle when you are already suppressed? It's not like you can't do post cycle therapy without doing another cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by St1ff View Post
    wow, m1t even thinned your hair!? Man that **** just sounds horrible.
    Have you seen the before and after pics of people that have done M1T cycles?!?

    That stuff is POWERFUL.
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    Nolvadex xt makes me bounce back so well that I got gyno from too much test last cycle after pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimalG View Post
    Have you seen the before and after pics of people that have done M1T cycles?!?

    That stuff is POWERFUL.
    Nope, never really seen any before/after pics. Like I said, It was banned before I ever got in to PH's.

    As far as why would he go back on cycle, to bring his test levels back up then try to lower them back to a normal range again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by St1ff View Post
    Nope, never really seen any before/after pics. Like I said, It was banned before I ever got in to PH's.

    As far as why would he go back on cycle, to bring his test levels back up then try to lower them back to a normal range again.
    Going on cycle would do the opposite. It would bring his natural test levels down, possibly completely to zero. The PCT would bring them back up.
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    yeah man if you went on, you would be shut down. it would suppress me even more.

    so does anyone have any suggestions?

    the nolvadex xt sounds like **** to me. if you got gyno on it, obviously it did nothing for suppressin estrogen which is supposed to be its main mechanism for boosting test. just thinking out loud
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    the nolvadex xt sounds like **** to me. if you got gyno on it, obviously it did nothing for suppressin estrogen which is supposed to be its main mechanism for boosting test.
    He mentioned that it was AFTER PCT that he got the gyno. That isn't surprising because if you don't slowly taper off of Novedex XT, you will get estrogen rebound. From what I read, all ATD based supps (such as Novedex XT) tend to be difficult to taper off of.
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    Go back on cycle with something mildly suppressive like h-drol or epistane. Then use an agressive post cycle therapy with something like: Nolva/clomid mix, hyperdrol, and a good natty test booster like diesel test. If this doesn't get you up and running, nothing will. This might be one of your only options besides seeeing an good endo and possibly hrt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by St1ff View Post
    Nope, never really seen any before/after pics. Like I said, It was banned before I ever got in to PH's.

    As far as why would he go back on cycle, to bring his test levels back up then try to lower them back to a normal range again.
    You mean to suppress his test levels again, then bring them back up. We want his HPTA to be supressed again, and then slam him with SERM to try and upregulate his hormonal balance. When you take a steroid, unless its pure test, then you have little to no test in your system. The body doesn't convert these oral androgens to test, they are just similar enough to test that your body doesn't know the difference, and stops producing its own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilPsychotic View Post
    You mean to suppress his test levels again, then bring them back up. We want his HPTA to be supressed again, and then slam him with SERM to try and upregulate his hormonal balance. When you take a steroid, unless its pure test, then you have little to no test in your system. The body doesn't convert these oral androgens to test, they are just similar enough to test that your body doesn't know the difference, and stops producing its own.
    That seems unnecessary. Why not just 'slam' him with a SERM without supressing him again?

    I would think another round of supression would just make things worse.
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    I saw someone mention in another thread that it may be better to run another cycle, get shut down to nil, then w/ a heavy post cycle therapy, attempt to raise your baseline. Kind of like reseting a clock.

    This is just what I read... may not be worth a crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimalG View Post
    That seems unnecessary. Why not just 'slam' him with a SERM without supressing him again?

    I would think another round of supression would just make things worse.
    Because, typically, test goes up while on a SERM, then goes back down where it started. The body seems to favor that level of homeostasis it is/was in. By going on cycle and then doing proper post cycle you hope to establish the homeostasis you had before the cycle with not-so-successful post cycle.

    EDIT: Found what I was looking for, food for thought and not necessary a recommendation. Start reading from that post down:

    Havoc Log

    Erectile Problems after PCT
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    thanks for the links man. like said before i am noit really interested in losing more hair. what is the cheapest way to shut myself down. Havoc?

    i ordered some generic arimidex from an online pharmacy. i think i am gonna try that as a standalone test booster before i try anymore anabolics.
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    You could try Halodrol 50, it is much milder and wouldn't totally shut you down, then hit it hard with an aggressive post cycle. The only reason I suggest this for you is that Halodrol 50 is very low in the androgenic side effect category, meaning you wouldn't have to worry about hair loss. You also wouldn't really require a prescription SERM, since it's much milder. However, you could use a SERM anyway, and several OTC products to make a really great post cycle, and hope to recover to a more stable range.
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    to my knowledge halodrol 50 does not even have any androgens in it. it has gotten horrible reviews. i dont think it is even capable of shutting someone down.
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    I think you are thinking of Halodrol Liquigels. Haladrol 50 is no longer sold and did have an androgen in it.
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    yes i am thinking of the liquigels. since the 50 is not sold anymore then that is kind of a pointless. hhmm, i think if i tried anything it should be something test based
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    I think there are clones/equivalents still being sold.

    I pulled this list from a post on another forum:

    EST - Hemadrol
    CEL - H-Drol
    Fast Action - H-Drol
    Juggernaut Nutrition - Oral Turinadrol
    Webber - Methandrol-50
    Generic Labz - Mega-H
    Prometabolix - HMAX 1.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    yes i am thinking ofou the liquigels. since the 50 is not sold anymore then that is kind of a pointless. hhmm, i think if i tried anything it should be something test based
    You are right. Why mess around with prohormones. Go with Test cyp or E. If you are going to be shut down, you might as well do it in a more heathly/productive way.
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    Oh man, you're not a computer, I don't know that a re-boot is going to work for you. How about trying either dermacrine sustain or AI Post Cycle Support along with another test booster and see if that doesn't bounce you back a month later.
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    You should read more then about H-Drol..........
    Last edited by RoidGracie; 02-25-2008 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Double Post
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    yeah i am not gonna do more roids to fix the problem that roids got me into. unless i am in an "if all else fails" situation. let me look up this dermicrine you speak of.
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