Help....First Cycle Blood Test Results...

  1. New Member
    bax333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    85
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    15.33%

    Help....First Cycle Blood Test Results...


    Need some help regarding my first cycle and blood test results.

    Stats: 41 Y.O
    6'
    225
    W/O on and off for 25 yrs

    I just finished a four week cycle of Halodrol 50/75/75/75. I took Hawthorne Berry, LIV-52 etc for support supps...

    Two weeks into PCT which includes a SERM.

    I just received the results of a blood test taken a couple of weeks ago. I take meds for anxiety. It has been a couple of years since I had blood tests but everything has always come back normal.

    My recent test results show my liver function is off.

    AST (SGOT) normal 0-40: My results 108 IU/L
    ALT (SGPT) normal 0-55: My results 305 IU/L

    I have set up a Drs. appointment for next week.

    In the meantime I have a few questions and hope I can get some advice.

    What do I do regarding my PCT? Do I stop taking the SERM which I understand is liver toxic and switch to an AI?

    Should I start taking anything else for my liver?

    Are these results as bad as they look to someone who has little knowledge of bloodwork?

    Should I get all my life insurance in order?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. Senior Member
    nunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,528
    Rep Power
    1320
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    23.18%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bax333 View Post
    Need some help regarding my first cycle and blood test results.

    Stats: 41 Y.O
    6'
    225
    W/O on and off for 25 yrs

    I just finished a four week cycle of Halodrol 50/75/75/75. I took Hawthorne Berry, LIV-52 etc for support supps...

    Two weeks into post cycle therapy which includes a SERM.

    I just received the results of a blood test taken a couple of weeks ago. I take meds for anxiety. It has been a couple of years since I had blood tests but everything has always come back normal.

    My recent test results show my liver function is off.

    AST (SGOT) normal 0-40: My results 108 IU/L
    ALT (SGPT) normal 0-55: My results 305 IU/L

    I have set up a Drs. appointment for next week.

    In the meantime I have a few questions and hope I can get some advice.

    What do I do regarding my post cycle therapy? Do I stop taking the SERM which I understand is liver toxic and switch to an AI?

    Should I start taking anything else for my liver?

    Are these results as bad as they look to someone who has little knowledge of bloodwork?

    Should I get all my life insurance in order?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    your values are crazy bro, search a doc ,drop the serm, go with a product like ax perfect cycle,drop all other meds and by the way , how do you feel?
  3. New Member
    Eagleman003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    220
    Rep Power
    202
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    34.76%

    dude if those were ur values on cycle or even in your PCT with a liver toxic SERM there obviously ognna be f'ed up bigtime.
    •   
       

  4. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    if the blood was drawn within a couple of hours of a dose of halo, there is no telling. you really need it to be a day or two after dosing anything that effects it.
  5. Senior Member
    quigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,252
    Rep Power
    10633
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    96.78%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bax333 View Post
    Need some help regarding my first cycle and blood test results.

    Stats: 41 Y.O
    6'
    225
    W/O on and off for 25 yrs

    I just finished a four week cycle of Halodrol 50/75/75/75. I took Hawthorne Berry, LIV-52 etc for support supps...

    Two weeks into post cycle therapy which includes a SERM.

    I just received the results of a blood test taken a couple of weeks ago. I take meds for anxiety. It has been a couple of years since I had blood tests but everything has always come back normal.

    My recent test results show my liver function is off.

    AST (SGOT) normal 0-40: My results 108 IU/L
    ALT (SGPT) normal 0-55: My results 305 IU/L

    I have set up a Drs. appointment for next week.

    In the meantime I have a few questions and hope I can get some advice.

    What do I do regarding my PCT? Do I stop taking the SERM which I understand is liver toxic and switch to an AI?

    Should I start taking anything else for my liver?

    Are these results as bad as they look to someone who has little knowledge of bloodwork?

    Should I get all my life insurance in order?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    What other drugs/medications (if any) are you taking?
  6. New Member
    Haltera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    Rep Power
    178
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    56.81%

    Unhappy


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    if the blood was drawn within a couple of hours of a dose of halo, there is no telling. you really need it to be a day or two after dosing anything that effects it.
    what you said has no sense at all... why get a bloodwork if not to know how things really affect your body??

    One thing is to stop working out 2 days before the test to really know how the products affect your body (avoiding this way interferences like hepatic extress from exercise...). Another complete thing is to stop taking the product to get a better result... then why take the product???
  7. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Its the same as getting your blood drawn after fasting for the last 12 hours. Get your blood glucose level checked while fasting, then another time get it checked after eating a bowl of sugar frosted flakes first. Your results will be quite different on the two. Same thing, in the immediate period while your liver is processing out the steroid, your enzyme levels will be higher than they would be a day or two after stopping.

    A blood test for testosterone levels would also be compeletely useless while on cycle.
  8. New Member
    Haltera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    Rep Power
    178
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    56.81%

    BTW those results look pretty weird if you ask me...

    Did you drink heavily before the cycle (my assumption is that you did not drink during it)... It looks like you had problems before taking halodrol to me...

    hope everything comes well for you bro...
  9. New Member
    Haltera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    139
    Rep Power
    178
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    56.81%

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Its the same as getting your blood drawn after fasting for the last 12 hours. Get your blood glucose level checked while fasting, then another time get it checked after eating a bowl of sugar frosted flakes first. Your results will be quite different on the two. Same thing, in the immediate period while your liver is processing out the steroid, your enzyme levels will be higher than they would be a day or two after stopping.
    I get your point but still has no sense to me to get a bloodwork after stopping the steroid... the goal here is to get some values during the steroid use to compare them with the same markers of your body without the drug...

    Thats the reason why people get blood tested... just to know how your body reacts to something exogenous...

    BTW the glucose level is always taken with an empty stomach here Spain. Thats the way they compare the results... always doing the test at the same time (different days) under the same circunstances.
  10. New Member
    bax333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    85
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    15.33%

    Thanks for all of the help guys...I have been really lethargic and was taking a nap....

    Not a heavy drinker...Few beers on the weekend...Nothing on cycle or post cycle therapy...

    I fasted for 12 hours before the test and it had been about 18 hrs since my last dose of H-drol...

    I take klonopin and effexor for anxiety..

    I am going to drop the SERM immediately...I was feeling really lethargic at the end of the cycle....to the point where I cut it short a couple of days....I guess I need to get into the Doc sooner rather than later...I am going to try to get in ASAP....

    Thanks for all of the help.....
  11. Diamond Member
    Trauma1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    15,424
    Rep Power
    57342
    Level
    72
    Lv. Percent
    77.65%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    What were the rest of the results from your electrolyte/Lft(liver function tests)? Did they do a urinalysis? Are you having any symptoms outside the lethargy such as right upper quadrant abdominal pain, dark urine, clay colored stools, Jaundice(yellowing of the skin/eyes), or pruritis(itching)?

    Here's a previous post where i broke down liver function results:

    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post

    AST(aspartate aminotransferase)is a test that is less specific to hepatic liver disease/damage. It can be elevated with many other disease processes, skeletal/cardiac muscle injury, or illness. In general it's less specific to true hepatic function. It's mainly used to correlate ratios with ALT to determine degree of hepatic cellular damage/death.

    ALT(alanine aminotransferase) is primarily hepatic specific and the most sensitive test marker to determine acute hepatic cellular disease/death. Alanine aminotransferrase (ALT) is an enzyme present in hepatocytes(liver cells). When a cell is damaged, it leaks this enzyme into the blood, where it is measured. High levels of ALT in the bloodstream mean that there may be significant liver inflammation and/or damage. This test however cannot predict the amount of liver damage or disease progression. It is simply a direct measurement of the amount of ALT in the person's bloodstream at the time of the test. In true hepatic damage this level/ratio will be significantly elevated while correlating with a mild/moderate elevation in AST.

    ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE is another test used to determine hepatic/biliary damage. It's more closely associated with the biliary tract(liver, gallbladder, pancreas, and common bile duct) and not hepatic specific. It can be elevated with renal(kidney), or intestinal damage also. It's used to correlate with ALT, AST, GGT, TOTAL BILIRUBIN in determining degree of hepatic/biliary damage.

    GGT is often done to correlate that an elevated ALK PHOS is of hepatic etiology.


    TOTAL BILIRUBIN has to due with the breakdown of hemoglobin within the liver where it's eventually excreted into bile. An elevation in TOTAL BILIRUBIN usually indicates hepatic cellular damage, or bile duct damage within the liver itself. In all honesty from my own experiences you will see a significant elevated ALT/ AST ratio in acute hepatic injuries be it from viral induced hepatitis(A,B,C), alcohol induced hepatitis, autoimmune hepatitis, or drug induced hepatitis.

    The levels you listed of AST:108, ALT:305 are concerning for many reasons. The biggest being that your AST/ALT ratio largely indicates significant hepatic cellular stress/damage at the time of blood draw. An ALT/AST 2:1 ratio is considered significant for hepatic injury. The results of the rest of your electrolyte/liver fuction tests would also help to further determine and correlate findings. Yes, exercise muscle damage(skeletal,cardiac), and illness can alter levels certain liver fuction tests to a degree(however this is almost exclusively found in AST elevation), that's where the AST/ALT ratio becomes important. ALT in general is a much more specific indicator of direct hepatic damage from an underlying source(viral,alcohol,auto-immune,drug induced.), especially when effectively correlated with a mild/moderate AST elevation.

    Now many outside factors could certainly have influenced these results to a degree as Easy stated, including the fact that you had taken halodrol 18 hours prior to the testing. However, even with that in mind the AST/ALT levels and ratio that you displayed remain very significant nonetheless. Some other factors that could have further negatively contributed to this issue while on cycle would be, other medications/substances that are hepatically metabolized(acetaminophen,ibup rofen,klonopin,effexor), or ingestion of ETOH(alcohol.) The only way to truly determine the amount of hepatic damage is through a liver biopsy.


    There also could be the possibility of an undiagnosed issue that was present prior to your cycle that you have been unaware of. The underlying etiology or possible pathologic process at this point could be many things which is why you need further evaluation and testing by your physician.


    I would stop all intake of anything with direct hepatic effects or metabolization immediately and address this issue ASAP with your primary physician for further evaluation. If symptoms begin to progress, seek medical attention emergently. Good luck with everything bro and keep us updated.
    Last edited by Trauma1; 06-20-2008 at 12:53 AM.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

  12. New Member
    bax333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    85
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    15.33%

    Thanks for all of the help Trauma1.

    I have moved my Drs. appointment up from next thursday to this friday. That is the soonest that I can get in.

    I didn't have a urinalysis done just the blood work. I usually go in once a year to get it done because of the other meds that I am on. I have never had a problem before.

    My TOTAL BILIRUBIN is .5 mg/dl
    Is the GGT Globulin Total? That shows 3.1 g/dl

    Those both look like they fall in the normal area.

    I purposely don't take any acetaminophen,ibuprofen because I know that they can be hard on the liver especially with the effexor and klonopin.

    I haven't had any of the other symptoms that you mentioned.
    I just feel really run down and towards the end of the cycle I felt like something wasn't right. That's why I cut it short a couple of days. I actually started feeling better when I stopped the cycle and started PCT. I have stopped taking the SERM and pretty much everything else until I can get in to see the Doc...

    If I start having any of the other symptoms that you mentioned I will head into the ER asap....Thanks again.........
  13. Senior Member
    nunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,528
    Rep Power
    1320
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    23.18%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    What were the rest of the results from your electrolyte/Lft(liver function tests)? Did they do a urinalysis? Are you having any symptoms outside the lethargy such as right upper quadrant abdominal pain, dark urine, clay colored stools, Jaundice(yellowing of the skin/eyes), or pruritis(itching)?

    Here's a previous post where i broke down liver function results:




    The levels you listed of AST:108, ALT:305 are concerning for many reasons. The biggest being that your AST/ALT ratio largely indicates significant hepatic cellular stress/damage at the time of blood draw. The results of the rest of your electrolyte/liver fuction tests would also help to further determine and correlate findings. Yes exercise, muscle damage(skeletal,cardiac), and illness can alter levels certain liver fuction tests to a degree(however this is almost exclusively found in AST elevation), that's where the AST/ALT ratio becomes important. ALT in general is a much more specific indicator of direct hepatic damage from an underlying source(viral,alcohol,auto-immune,drug induced.), especially when effectively correlated with a mild/moderate AST elevation.

    Now many outside factors could certainly have influenced these results to a degree as Easy stated, including the fact that you had taken halodrol 18 hours prior to the testing. However, even with that in mind the AST/ALT levels and ratio that you displayed remain very significant nonetheless. Some other factors that could have further negatively contributed to this issue while on cycle would be, other medications/substances that are hepatically metabolized(acetaminophen,ibup rofen,klonopin,effexor), or ingestion of ETOH(alcohol.)


    There also could be the possibility of an undiagnosed issue that was present prior to your cycle that you have been unaware of. The underlying etiology or possible pathologic process at this point could be many things which is why you need further evaluation and testing by your physician.


    I would stop all intake of anything with direct hepatic effects or metabolization immediately and address this issue ASAP with your primary physician for further evaluation. If symptoms begin to progress, seek medical attention emergently. Good luck with everything bro and keep us updated.
    very good post, this should be a sticky, all methyl users should have access to these thread, I saw so many kids stacking methyl's and abuse them without knowing the risks they are taking
  14. New Member
    PhilABowl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    473
    Rep Power
    329
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    87.42%

    My personal recommendation for anxiety is Lexapro. My GF takes Effexor and she gets crazy withdrawal if she's even an hour late taking it, and Klonopin is in the same family as Valium I believe... Lexapro has totally changed my life, no BS. It gets "good" at about 2 weeks, but at 6-12 months its GREAT and your anxiety just doesn't exist anymore. I've taken a variety of different things and this works best... and you're also taking a 10mg pill once a day instead of 75,150,225,or even 300 mg like with effexor... I am not a doctor, but it seems to me that if you're filtering less drugs out of your body every day it could only help your liver.
  15. Diamond Member
    Trauma1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    15,424
    Rep Power
    57342
    Level
    72
    Lv. Percent
    77.65%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by bax333 View Post
    Thanks for all of the help Trauma1.

    I have moved my Drs. appointment up from next thursday to this friday. That is the soonest that I can get in.

    I didn't have a urinalysis done just the blood work. I usually go in once a year to get it done because of the other meds that I am on. I have never had a problem before.

    My TOTAL BILIRUBIN is .5 mg/dl
    Is the GGT Globulin Total? That shows 3.1 g/dl

    Those both look like they fall in the normal area.

    I purposely don't take any acetaminophen,ibuprofen because I know that they can be hard on the liver especially with the effexor and klonopin.

    I haven't had any of the other symptoms that you mentioned.
    I just feel really run down and towards the end of the cycle I felt like something wasn't right. That's why I cut it short a couple of days. I actually started feeling better when I stopped the cycle and started post cycle therapy. I have stopped taking the SERM and pretty much everything else until I can get in to see the Doc...

    If I start having any of the other symptoms that you mentioned I will head into the ER asap....Thanks again.........
    Glad to help my friend. Your total bili and GGT levels look fine, so that is good. Always be safe when cycling. Not to use your case as an example, but this situation is why bloodwork in both pre and post cycle is so vital and important. The best advice i can ever give is always listen to your body. If you feel like something could be wrong, the odds are many times you are right and worth investigating. I'm glad to see you're getting in to see your primary physician over the next few days.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

  16. Diamond Member
    Trauma1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    15,424
    Rep Power
    57342
    Level
    72
    Lv. Percent
    77.65%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    very good post, this should be a sticky, all methyl users should have access to these thread, I saw so many kids stacking methyl's and abuse them without knowing the risks they are taking
    I actually plan on making an overall bloodwork post(maybe it'll be a sticky ) that explains their significance in laymans terms for all to more accurately understand. This would help give many people a better understanding of what they're looking at in their labs, and what should be considered normal vs. alarming. Thanks for the kind words brotha!

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

  17. Advanced Member
    maynehood171's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    29
    Posts
    846
    Rep Power
    509
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    48.35%

    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I actually plan on making an overall bloodwork post(maybe it'll be a sticky ) that explains their significance in laymans terms for all to more accurately understand. This would help give many people a better understanding of what they're looking at in their labs, and what should be considered normal vs. alarming. Thanks for the kind words brotha!
    OH PLZ DO!!! would b very helpful or at least good to know!
  18. Diamond Member
    Trauma1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    15,424
    Rep Power
    57342
    Level
    72
    Lv. Percent
    77.65%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by maynehood171 View Post
    OH PLZ DO!!! would b very helpful or at least good to know!
    I'll definately get around to making it.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

  19. New Member
    Eagleman003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    220
    Rep Power
    202
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    34.76%

    Those blood tests are abosultely pointless. First off bodybuilders should never fast for 12 hours hehehe, jk. anyway your liver values and whole body is screwed up from a cycle, thats why your **** is whacked. You should have waited till after PCT to get your stuff tested and even then liver values wouldbe off due to the toxic SERM you were taking. Go to the viatmin shoppe and by a full body detoxify kit and drink mad mad water and run and you should be better in a few weeks.
  20. Registered User
    jonny21's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    46
    Posts
    2,254
    Rep Power
    3917
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    96.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I'd relax and wait to see your MD. ALT can be elevated just from the Clonazepam. Your numbers aren't all that crazy but the ratio is indicative of something hepatic. Toremifene can also cause elevated LFT's. Don't forget, rigorous exercise will also cause elevations in your enzymes.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
  21. Diamond Member
    Trauma1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    15,424
    Rep Power
    57342
    Level
    72
    Lv. Percent
    77.65%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Any update bax333?

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary

  22. Bananas
    TripDog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,084
    Rep Power
    5553
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    41.8%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by bax333 View Post
    Thanks for all of the help Trauma1.

    I have moved my Drs. appointment up from next thursday to this friday. That is the soonest that I can get in.

    I didn't have a urinalysis done just the blood work. I usually go in once a year to get it done because of the other meds that I am on. I have never had a problem before.

    My TOTAL BILIRUBIN is .5 mg/dl
    Is the GGT Globulin Total? That shows 3.1 g/dl

    Those both look like they fall in the normal area.

    I purposely don't take any acetaminophen,ibuprofen because I know that they can be hard on the liver especially with the effexor and klonopin.

    I haven't had any of the other symptoms that you mentioned.
    I just feel really run down and towards the end of the cycle I felt like something wasn't right. That's why I cut it short a couple of days. I actually started feeling better when I stopped the cycle and started post cycle therapy. I have stopped taking the SERM and pretty much everything else until I can get in to see the Doc...

    If I start having any of the other symptoms that you mentioned I will head into the ER asap....Thanks again.........
    BUMP on the update
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Help reading my blood test results
    By asmith1012 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-12-2012, 03:24 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-09-2012, 08:35 PM
  3. help with my blood test results!
    By runnakednecu in forum Supplements
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-06-2010, 04:41 PM
  4. got my pre cycle blood test results, ?'s
    By 2slow in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-28-2009, 05:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in