What is going on in the US???!!!WTF

[Brian5225]

Hey guys, read this. wtf is going on here.

FDA Announces Plan to Eliminate Vitamin Companies

 

[Necroticism]

back when my dad was working with max muscle he was telling me about this. the fda is out of control.

 

[drewh10987]

The FDA and America is out of control. Don't take me wrong, I am 100% American, but I hate the direction the government is heading. Every action the government makes is based upon extending there power and influence and increasing profits, all while making the general masses easier to control. There is so many more important and more life affecting issues out there that our government could be focusing on, but instead they want to take down supplement companies and worry about harmless steroid users.

 

[somewhatgifted]

This is only a small part of the corruption and greed rampant in the world. Were embarking on a crazy ride to the destruction of humankind and the world we live in. I dont get the incessant need to accumulate money and die rich at the cost of ruining lives.

 

[somewhatgifted]

The FDA and America is out of control. Don't take me wrong, I am 100% American, but I hate the direction the government is heading. Every action the government makes is based upon extending there power and influence and increasing profits, all while making the general masses easier to control.

Good post.

 

[Ziquor]

Yeah this is so fuc!ed up. It seems like the FDA's easily becoming one of the most corrupt branches of the US gov't. Like how there's prescription drugs available in Canada & other countries that are made by the EXACT same companies in most cases and always with the exact same formulations as US "FDA approved" meds - but in Canada & other countires they're 50% or more cheaper. It'd be great for seniors on a fixed income and those without insurance who can't afford their meds but the US/FDA says it's illegal to import these meds even though they're the exact same thing only much cheaper. Why? Because even though they're identical meds, since they're not manufactured in the US, the FDA/US gov't doesn't make a percentage off of them like they do off of the ones that are made in the US here. Yet the FDA gives the reason to why this's illegal as being 'since they're made in another country they may not be safe.' Yet most are made by the same US based company with 100% the exact same formula & process. I don't even wanna get started on this...

 

[EasyEJL]

to me there is nothing wrong with this. Who here wants to take supplements that aren't tested by the manufacturer, are put together in a facility that doesn't need to be checked ever by an outside authority, and by a mom and pop operation who if it happens they mislabel something or cross contaminate don't have enough money to sue to be able to cover your medical costs?

I know I don't. I think this sort of thing is a good idea.

 

[somewhatgifted]

to me there is nothing wrong with this. Who here wants to take supplements that aren't tested by the manufacturer, are put together in a facility that doesn't need to be checked ever by an outside authority, and by a mom and pop operation who if it happens they mislabel something or cross contaminate don't have enough money to sue to be able to cover your medical costs?

I know I don't. I think this sort of thing is a good idea.

People have the rights to choose an inferior manufacturer, i can be fat dumb and illiterate. If we were protected and advocated for by our governments for health reasons we would not purchase over the counter addictive carcinogens.

 

[Ziquor]

I think if the FDA wants to approve and test vitamins & supplements that could possibly be a good thing when it comes to quality & the consumer. Though I think they shouldn't force people to go their way only and in the end we should be left with a choice.

 

[EasyEJL]

Again the cigarettes have the warning on the side. Are you saying the supplements should have a warning "this bottle may or may not have the ingredients listed on the label in it" ?

It is a significant issue of consumer safety when you don't know what is actually in the product. Look what even happened recently within the bodybuilding community. Competititve Edge Labs sold a batch of M1,4ADD that wasn't. It tests similar to DHEA, but that is after the fact. What if it had been something heavily carcinocenic, or far more liver toxic? Strychnine even. CEL would close down before a lawsuit from a death, and would probably just reopen with a new name. Not quite the way i want my "health supplements" to work out

 

[T-Bone]

Again the cigarettes have the warning on the side. Are you saying the supplements should have a warning "this bottle may or may not have the ingredients listed on the label in it" ?

It is a significant issue of consumer safety when you don't know what is actually in the product. Look what even happened recently within the bodybuilding community. Competititve Edge Labs sold a batch of M1,4ADD that wasn't. It tests similar to DHEA, but that is after the fact. What if it had been something heavily carcinocenic, or far more liver toxic? Strychnine even. CEL would close down before a lawsuit from a death, and would probably just reopen with a new name. Not quite the way i want my "health supplements" to work out

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:


Cheers to you my friend!. That is one of the best posts I have seen in long time!.

 

[EasyEJL]

Its the difference of being older. I don't want to give my 3 year old "Organic food based vitamins" that happen to have some mercury or lead in them because they used crappy equipment or never tested their raws

 

[machine528]

I dont mind the FDA setting higher standards for supplement companies. I will flip out if they decide to BAN nutritional supplements.

 

[Ziquor]

Quality control needs to be there definitely but when they hijack vitamin companies so they can 'quality control' stuff that's already ISO approved for quality it's obvious what their intentions are. ISO standards are actually more strict than the FDA's own process in some cases. It's always been the American way to have a choice. You always get what you pay for and most people (me included) are willing to spend a bit extra to be certain the quality is there. I just don't think people should be forced to. Otherwise I'd move to North Korea. PH's are strange topic when it comes to quality control. I think most realize it's only a matter of time before all the most popular PH's are banned. If I were a betting man, which I'm not though, I'd say before summer without a doubt. The heats already on certain companies by the fda.

 

[drewh10987]

It's not that I don't think their should be regulations and standards for supplements. I just see this as a first step in a chain of events that is going to have a very negative effect on the supplement community.

 

[drewh10987]

I think part of my problem is I feel that if the FDA is more involved in the supplement industry, then its going to be a lot harder for companies to put out PH's and DS's. So yes regulations might make things safer, but for someone who wants to use these kind of products, I can definitely see the end approaching. Personally I think that real gear is always the better route anyways, but I still like the option/availability of the over the counter anabolics.

 

[Ziquor]

I'm with ya Drew. I'm not trying to argue on here, these are just my opinions and like *******s everyone has one, or so goes the saying. Good commercial with Big Ben during the Superbowl, you from Pitt?

 

[PhilABowl]

Hey guys, read this. wtf is going on here.

FDA Announces Plan to Eliminate Vitamin Companies

Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you... -Nirvana

"I read it on the internet - it MUST be true!!!"

If you want reliable news, you should strive to find a source that isn't so radically slanted in one direction or the other - that story was EXTREMELY biased, which means they will tend to ignore facts and/or present their opinions as fact.

Ask yourself "Is the government really going to allow them to put someone like the makers of Centrum or Vitamin C tablets out of business?"

Think about whether or not something makes sense before believing it.

 

[drewh10987]

I'm with ya Drew. I'm not trying to argue on here, these are just my opinions and like *******s everyone has one, or so goes the saying. Good commercial with Big Ben during the Superbowl, you from Pitt?

I'm not personally from Pittsburgh, but all my family is and no that commercial was terrible. None of the guys I was watching the game with were Steelers fans and they all gave me hell about it the rest of the night.

 

[Ziquor]

Yeah of all the commercials BB had to do that one. And Phil, I'm young enough to be an ignorant prick but yet old enough to the point where I only believe what I want to anyhow so I'm a lost cause. Besides after I found out about you & my mom I haven't been the same.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

The FDA and America is out of control. Don't take me wrong, I am 100% American, but I hate the direction the government is heading. Every action the government makes is based upon extending there power and influence and increasing profits, all while making the general masses easier to control. There is so many more important and more life affecting issues out there that our government could be focusing on, but instead they want to take down supplement companies and worry about harmless steroid users.

Nailed it. I couldn't have said it better.

 

[matthew76]

The FDA needs to shut down the Research Chem labs/sites and mandate a proper ingredient profile regulation sanction upon supplement companies. The abuse has to stop.

 

[MashedPotato]

Just wanted to make an interesting point here guys...

Say "hypothetically" the fda decide that all nutrional supps have to be tested by them before release....

...Well, slap me if im wrong (which i may be), but wouldnt that mean that before any supplement can be released it would have to undergo trials (i.e 1-4 years) before being allowed to be released?

For example something like a simple NO product (contains a varying amount of herbs, chemicals etc) but has not previously been tested to be safe by the FDA. Take creatine for example, the fuss that causes, you just know they'd have to do some stupid 4 year trial on it, before it is available for release.

Im pretty sure most if not all companies would go under, as it costs hell of a lot to get anything tested and approved.

AXs 3-AD is a prime example of the speed of these FDA things....

 

[datBtrue]

Its the difference of being older. I don't want to give my 3 year old "Organic food based vitamins" that happen to have some mercury or lead in them because they used crappy equipment or never tested their raws

Let me introduce you to the FDA "regulated" pharma business.

...
Rick Roberts, a San Francisco resident, has experienced the horror of counterfeit drugs. The 40-year-old, who teaches at the University of San Francisco, purchased Serostim, a growth hormone used to combat wasting in AIDS patients from a CVS ProCare pharmacy in the Castro in late 2000.

After noticing a burning sensation at the injection site as well as some subtle changes in the packaging, he brought up those concerns to his pharmacist in January 2001.

He was shocked to learn from his pharmacist that he could have possibly received a fake version of the drug. It took six anxiety-riddled months to determine that the substance he injected -- a fertility hormone and a pediatric dose of the growth hormone -- wasn't harmful. - SOURCE: "Counterfeit drugs hit pharmacies" by Victoria Colliver SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE Sunday, August 3, 2003​

AND

CVS Corp. said yesterday it would stop buying drugs from wholesalers that use middlemen in an effort to crack down on counterfeits infecting the drug supply.

The disclosure comes several weeks after the country's second-largest drug distributor said it would curb the trading of pharmaceuticals with secondary wholesalers, and three years after a 16-year-old liver transplant patient was injected with a fake version of the Epogen drug bought from CVS.
... - SOURCE: "CVS takes step to keep fake drugs off shelves" by Jenn Abelson BOSTON GLOBE May 25, 2005​

 

[EasyEJL]

Let me introduce you to the FDA "regulated" pharma business.

I'm not sure how thats relevant. Its not products put out by a licensed company, its criminals trying to make a fast buck with fact products.

 

[EasyEJL]

Just wanted to make an interesting point here guys...

Say "hypothetically" the fda decide that all nutrional supps have to be tested by them before release....

The testing they are talking about is ingredient assays. That what is on the label is what is in the product, and ALL that is in the product. Not pharmaceutical grade clinical testing.

 

[strategicmove]

If the FDA's true intent, without any hidden agenda, is to sort out the unethical companies from the supplements' industry, then it would be a great service to consumers, not just in the USA, but also worldwide. If, however, the true motive is to directly or indirectly protect the entrenched interests of Big Pharma, then it should be construed as a dangerous move that would eventually drive up the cost of supplements by a significant factor. It is hard to tell what exactly is on the FDA's true agenda in this case and at this point in time. Time and the FDA's actions would make things clearer.

 

[EasyEJL]

Seems to me that if you look for signs of conspiracy you can find them in any action.

 

[drewh10987]

If the FDA's true intent, without any hidden agenda, is to sort out the unethical companies from the supplements' industry, then it would be a great service to consumers, not just in the USA, but also worldwide. If, however, the true motive is to directly or indirectly protect the entrenched interests of Big Pharma, then it should be construed as a dangerous move that would eventually drive up the cost of supplements by a significant factor. It is hard to tell what exactly is on the FDA's true agenda in this case and at this point in time. Time and the FDA's actions would make things clearer.

Great point. Unfortunately I see the monetary interest being the true motive behind this. Sadly however, I don't think that there's many government projects/actions that aren't in somehow financially motivated in one way or another.

 

[strategicmove]

Seems to me that if you look for signs of conspiracy you can find them in any action.

Probably. Yet, I am not after identifying probable conspiracies. I am only being pragmatic. It would be naive to assume that Big Pharma would be happy seeing the supplements' industry introducing innovative compounds and products that translate into lower sales and margins for them (Big Pharma). Who would insist on a medication (from Big Pharma) for high blood pressure, for instance, if a combination of Anabolic Innovations' Cycle Support, Post Cycle Support, and, say, Cocoa Polyphenols, and Omega-3 Fatty Acids, would do the same job? Just an example. Even without being a conspiracy theorist, it may be enough to just consider how many senior FDA officials leave the FDA to take on lucrative positions in Big Pharma to understand that vested interest (and, to an extent, conflict of interest) may be at work.

 

[datBtrue]

I'm not sure how thats relevant. Its not products put out by a licensed company, its criminals trying to make a fast buck with fact products.

CVS Pharmacy one of the largest licensed drug retailers has had many instances where they have sold fake drugs. This is usually kept quiet but it has occured and has been going on for the last 7 or so years.

The simple point is that you are not as safe as you think you are when you purchase products that are suppose to be distributed under the FDA's "watchful" eye.

 

[EasyEJL]

Who would insist on a medication (from Big Pharma) for high blood pressure, for instance, if a combination of Anabolic Innovations' Cycle Support, Post Cycle Support, and, say, Cocoa Polyphenols, and Omega-3 Fatty Acids, would do the same job? Just an example. Even without being a conspiracy theorist, it may be enough to just consider how many senior FDA officials leave the FDA to take on lucrative positions in Big Pharma to understand that vested interest (and, to an extent, conflict of interest) may be at work.

See the thing is that if that combination really did work, then a pharmaceutical company would do the studies to get FDA approval and then it would own it, and the supplement companies would be forced to drop it ALA levastatin from RYR.

 

[PhilABowl]

Yeah of all the commercials BB had to do that one. And Phil, I'm young enough to be an ignorant prick but yet old enough to the point where I only believe what I want to anyhow so I'm a lost cause. Besides after I found out about you & my mom I haven't been the same.

Your mother and I love each other very much, and were going to tell you when you got older.

LOL!

You need Cryogenic technology from MuscleTech!

Just think, if the FDA gets involved, they'd only be able to market things as doing what they can prove it does.

 

[strategicmove]

See the thing is that if that combination really did work, then a pharmaceutical company would do the studies to get FDA approval and then it would own it, and the supplement companies would be forced to drop it ALA levastatin from RYR.

That combination was an example, although it would work for many. Some of these issues are sometimes rather complex. A typical "pharmaceutical" company would prefer to sponsor expensive and lengthy original research into new, preferably, synthetic compounds they can claim patents on, if they work. That's where the huge profits lie. And they need such potential blockbusters to justify the huge investment in research. Consequently, they are unlikely to bother much with straight fish oil and cocoa polyphenols, for instance, because these compounds are readily available, and more importantly, command relatively low profit margins.

 

[Mass_69]

See the thing is that if that combination really did work, then a pharmaceutical company would do the studies to get FDA approval and then it would own it, and the supplement companies would be forced to drop it ALA levastatin from RYR.

Actually, something like this has already happened with the FDA & RYR: http://heartdisease.about.com/b/2007/08/10/apparently-some-red-yeast-rice-still-contains-lovastatin.htm

Pharma companies typically don't pursue making drugs that cannot be patented... ie - in the case of drugs like hormones, they try to patent the delivery system, etc.

 

[EasyEJL]

yes, that was though what I meant, that if an herbal was strong enough, a pharm co still could and would follow through and do something similar. Again I fail to see the problem with that even. They put out the money to prove it was safe and effective. Why should the rest of the world profit from it? its like selling bootleg movies.

 

[neoborn]

I sound like a broken record but you can quote me on this "Nothing good will come of handing anything over to goverment control".

Again I find it very hard to swallow that anyone of sound mind actually believes anyone with any power in the government has your best interests at heart. If you believe this you are part of the problem NOT the solution.

There are countless things that are good for you or good for your life that they don't allow you to do or have. They take you for a fool and rip you off left right and center while smiling and reaching into your pockets.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not for a government less environment just a governed less environment.

I honestly can make sound decisions in relation to my health, wealth and wellbeing. I think I should at least be allowed the choice.

If you want to take law as an example I see no reason why it's illegal to carry an ice cream in my back pocket on a sunday but it's illegal in some states! Yeah they've got it right :rasp:

The Dumbest of Dumb Laws - Associated Content

Welcome to thirty dollar bottles of eight dollar niacin.

Remember this is the same government that will send you to jail for smoking a joint but allow you to drown yourself in Alcohol!

 

[Brian5225]

Okay, I realize the article was biased. But at the same time, if you read some of what the FDA was quoted on, that doesn't seem like they have our "best interests" at heart. I mean hey, no one is going to object to regulations as to purity, but when the company regulating actually acknowledges that they are aware that it will put shops out of business, and that it will lead to a decrease in the supplement industry and consumer spendings on supplements, you can see there's another motive here. How many times has a decision regarding health been made in our interest in this country? Remember, we don't have socialized medicine because apparently as some of the politicians (who are on the Big Pharma's bankroll) have stated "its a stepping stone to communism". It's one thing to have regulations to make sure people stay healthy, it's another to knowingly attempt to decrease competition and raise prices DURING a recession scare.

 

[EasyEJL]

Okay, I realize the article was biased. But at the same time, if you read some of what the FDA was quoted on, that doesn't seem like they have our "best interests" at heart. I mean hey, no one is going to object to regulations as to purity, but when the company regulating actually acknowledges that they are aware that it will put shops out of business, and that it will lead to a decrease in the supplement industry and consumer spendings on supplements, you can see there's another motive here. How many times has a decision regarding health been made in our interest in this country? Remember, we don't have socialized medicine because apparently as some of the politicians (who are on the Big Pharma's bankroll) have stated "its a stepping stone to communism". It's one thing to have regulations to make sure people stay healthy, it's another to knowingly attempt to decrease competition and raise prices DURING a recession scare.

I think you are misreading it again, and catching the bias. The FDA mentions that not because it is their goal to do such, but because that is part of the "impact" section of their report. As a government agency, they have to list "side effects". So they are listing in their report that one of the side effects of this new regulations is that small companies will likely not be able to comply at a reasonable price. Similarly when airbags were legislated, there is a section that mentions that the pricing on cars will likely rise. That doesn't mean it was a conspiracy to put custom car makers out of business, just that it is a side effect.

 

[Brian5225]

But you can't exactly say that everything the the FDA does is only for our "protection". I'm not naive, I know that the FDA is corrupt, and so are many other government agencies. I also know that many things in the government are done for money, not for the people.

 

[EasyEJL]

I can't really say either way I don't work at the FDA, so I can't tell why what is done. Attempting to assign motivations to somewhere else is just idle mental games. I can't tell why my wife or kids do some of the things they do either. When I start to say "they must have done it because _____ " all I am doing is mirroring my own feelings onto them, what I would do in their situation. The FDA isn't one person either, so its motivations are even harder to guess.

But I am more comfortable with my supplements having more ingredient testing and documentation than having less.

 

[Brian5225]

Right, and I would have no objections to knowing how pure my supplements are eitherI just fear the FDA having too much control. Also the fact that I'm already having enough trouble affording whey, I don't need the prices jumping again.

 

[jarhead]

The fda is one of the most inept and corrupt government agencies. I cannot understand why anyone could see this as being anyway positive. This is not about regulating anything or safety. These are the same people responsible for approving a drug that killed over 60,000 Americans. On a yearly basis something like 2 million people are injured by drugs that get stamped "safe" AND over 100,000 are killed. They are deep in the pockets of big pharm companies. Quality control is one thing but people are not dropping dead from tainted vitamins. This type of oversight from such a corrupt agency would be a tragedy for the consumer.

 

[FX01]

The fda is one of the most inept and corrupt government agencies. I cannot understand why anyone could see this as being anyway positive. This is not about regulating anything or safety. These are the same people responsible for approving a drug that killed over 60,000 Americans. On a yearly basis something like 2 million people are injured by drugs that get stamped "safe" AND over 100,000 are killed. They are deep in the pockets of big pharm companies. Quality control is one thing but people are not dropping dead from tainted vitamins. This type of oversight from such a corrupt agency would be a tragedy for the consumer.

Amen to that.
How many times do we watch commercials about the next "greatest drug"on the market?Then they always say "ask your doctor if ........is right for you.What a frickin joke.

It's all about the money,and like Neo said in an earlier post,it's just one more hand in our pockets.

No offense Easy, I agree with you on the safety of our children,what I don't agree on is our governments decisions.:think:

 

[Brian5225]

we're getting some good discussion in here.

 

[somewhatgifted]

The fda is one of the most inept and corrupt government agencies. I cannot understand why anyone could see this as being anyway positive. This is not about regulating anything or safety. These are the same people responsible for approving a drug that killed over 60,000 Americans. On a yearly basis something like 2 million people are injured by drugs that get stamped "safe" AND over 100,000 are killed. They are deep in the pockets of big pharm companies. Quality control is one thing but people are not dropping dead from tainted vitamins. This type of oversight from such a corrupt agency would be a tragedy for the consumer.

Great post.

 

[AM07]

Whomever thinks the FDA is pursuing this for the purpose of safety is extremely naive about the U.S. government's actions.

The FDA is the reason why big pharma can't release life-saving drugs quicker to the American market, because the FDA's bureaucratic ways are so slow when it comes to investigating.

For the most part, turn a program over to the federal government, and everything becomes more expensive and inept.

By the way, it's always about the children. Politicians trying to pass a bill just need to mention the children, and chances are, it will get passed. In reality, this has done more harm to America than good.

This bill is just another example in the direction of government control. What's next, the FBI wants the traits of every person in America??? Ooops, I spoke too soon, seems like they are pursuing this as well: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping - CNN.com

All in the name of terrorism

 

[somewhatgifted]

Man i wanna rant but theres too much to bother lol. I wonder when i get my strings attached?

 

[Dr Packenwood]

By the way, it's always about the children. Politicians trying to pass a bill just need to mention the children, and chances are, it will get passed. In reality, this has done more harm to America than good.

God damn stupid John McCain and equally as stupid Orrin Hatch used this very argument to start the whole ball rolling on banning PH's and spending my tax dollars enforcing MLB rules for hells sake. It makes me sick.

 

[Iron Warrior]

The FDA has killed more Americans then terrorists and vitamin companies combined but now we're supposed to trust them with our supplements ? WTF ! ? I'll take my chances with supplement companies if the FDA is my other option. The fvcking nonsense has to end !