This is how I got androgel
- 08-09-2003, 04:16 AM
This is how I got androgel
*Below is a letter I wrote to my Doctor, after reading several books, including "The testosterone syndrome". Possibly this will help you get androgel from your Doctor.
I am not a doctor and can’t prescribe therapy, but I have learned a lot in the last few months and discovered several facts concerning Androgel, and Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) that I think you will find interesting: Amazingly this is not a problem afflicting a minor number of men. Sixty to eighty percent of men are in need of (HRT).
XXX you need to find a doctor that understands your health concerns (Most are very caring people). If you feel your doctor is not concerned, and wants to follow current guidelines and statistics, based upon outdated faulty studies, which have become popular opinion, then your health may well continue to decline placing you in danger.
Locating a doctor that doesn’t hold the opinion that testosterone is dangerous or evil, may be difficult. You need to find a doctor that is up to date on the most recent studies and findings (Most don’t have the time for research). Based upon your statement your current doctor may be unable to help you...
Here is a hypothetical scenario to ponder: You are 45 years old and your total testosterone is 550ng/dl and your doctor says you’re within the acceptable range! Which is (300-1000ng/dl)? If you are or were a high testosterone male and in your prime you had levels at or above 1100ng/dl, and now you are in your thirties or forties and it has dropped by 50%? You probably have noticed a definite difference in your quality of life.
Most Doctors will find your level of 550ng/dl acceptable!
Possibly you were a man who in his prime had levels of 500ng/dl and now your levels have dropped to 300ng/dl. It’s possible this man feels fine at 300ng/dl.
Remember everyone is different.
Ask your Doctor if he thinks that number may be low for you? If he says absolutely not, you may need to get another opinion. Below are some things you should be aware of:
1). You will need to be in a fasting state before giving blood (my first blood test was faulty because I had just eaten a large meal). My last blood test was in a fasting state and my total testosterone was low (328ng/dl). Seek to have several substances checked during your blood test: Dheas, testosterone, free testosterone (also called bioavailable testosterone), and Estradiol: (estradiol; anything over 30ng/dl is too high): If estradiol is too high it means the testosterone you are taking is being converted into estrogen. The free testosterone level is the most important and does decline with age, whereas the total testosterone may not change as you age, so it is often unreliable and dangerous to look at the total testosterone level and assume all is well. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) increases with age due to increased estrogen production. So, it’s important to be monitored if you’re receiving T.R.T. If the level of SHBG is high, more testosterone will be bound by SHBG while the free testosterone levels will be low, but the total testosterone levels unchanged. Receiving more testosterone (A higher dosage) will not increase the free testosterone blood levels.
* SEE DOCTORS QUOTE AT THE END OF THIS LETTER.
2). Almost all of the supposed facts (though widely accepted) have been wrong, since they are based on old and often faulty studies, Many male problems are now known to be associated with low testosterone and High Estrogen some are; prostate enlargement, high blood pressure, depression, cholesterol, heart attack, diabetes, rage, weight gain, irritability, low libido, E.D, low energy, loss of interest in life. ETC.
3). If your Dr. wants to give you injections or if he says “you don’t need therapy, you’re just getting older!” you’ll find yourself struggling against a system that is suppose to help you, but instead is increasing your worry, frustration, and in some endocrinologist’s opinion, your health. Injections are not the preferred method of administration, (other than the fact it is inexpensive) but it is not necessarily safe. Androgel is the safe alternative; it is natural, and metabolized by the body as a natural substance.
4). Depending on your Doctors orders, androgel can be applied up to 3-4 times per day.
Ex: If your doctor prescribes 1 dose of 5g androgel (50mg / 300ng/dl + or – 200) will a single 5g dose help you? It may not. With the plus or minus 200 factor you may need 2-4 doses, spread evenly thru out the day. According to the A.M.A, two doses equals 700ng/dl + or – 200. Three doses of 5g applications puts you on the medium/high end (1000ng/dl + or – 200). Also if you have a lot of fat, the fat cells may not release the androgel as readily as if you were a thin person, so the absorption percentage of 10% has to be taken into consideration.
Following is my experience:
** I noticed my symptoms about 4 yrs ago. I didn’t know then what was wrong; neither did any of the doctors I went to. I don’t fault them; most Doctors can’t do case studies or read each new publication. Most have a very heavy patient work load.
This left me doing a lot of research including reading medical books, books written by doctors and visiting medical websites like the AMA, to find an answer, and if you look at the symptoms of low testosterone, I have almost every symptom, SEE pages 23-26 in book recommended below.
I went to four doctors and I described my problems and symptoms to each of them.
First I saw a family practitioner, then a pulmonary specialist, then an endocrinologist, and finally my current doctor, Thank God for him, he is the only one that said, “Rod, you don’t need to feel this way, and I’ll fill your prescription I want you to come back and see me in three to four weeks”. Thank You Dr. xxxx!
Now I’m feeling a LOT better, (it can take up to a year to feel your best), but after one month you should feel a big difference, and I do. I have a lot more energy, my attitude is really different, I’m not grouchy, I even have a lot of energy, and am sleeping well, I’m not getting up to pee all night, and best of all my E.D. is gone. Amazingly two additional low testosterone symptoms; the swelling in my legs, and the muscle cramps are also gone! (This swelling was the reason I first saw Dr.xxxx).
I started with one pack of androgel for a few days and then tried 2 packs but I really felt the difference when I started using 3 packs per day, applied at 7 am, 1pm, and 7 pm, I’ve done some experimenting with the dose to be able to report my findings to Dr. xxxx. During this month I’ve also neglected to apply my androgel, or I applied only one packet, most of the symptoms return, especially the non existent morning erection and by the end of the day I felt wore out, my wife said, “You’re being grouchy; did you forget your androgel?”
As you know one of my greatest concerns was that I have performed very heavy labor for the past twenty years and have another twenty years to go, so I’m very happy to have found the reason for not being well.
In conclusion, the natural testosterones are safe, they are not synthetic, and are not the same as those abused by athletes, (not anabolic steroids), which are often dangerous, because of there differing chemical structure and the amounts used.
Even if androgel was dangerous (and its not), I would be willing to risk a loss of longevity, in order to continue with the quality of life I am now experiencing. This would be much better than living as I was prior to using androgel.
You should get the book: “The Testosterone Syndrome” by a doctor of internal medicine. Or I could pick it up for you. There are probably one or two dozen good books by leading doctors concerning new studies and treatments for male andropause.
If you have an estrogen problem, (some men have high estrogen and remedying this takes care of their problems). The current books and research recommend proviron, and or teslac, they are not just a dose of estrogen, to inhibit its uptake, and (You do need some estrogen in order to be healthy). You may need the estrogen medicine, if you have a high estradiol count (30ng/dl). If this is true for you, make sure you discuss this with you doctor, or no matter how much testosterone you take it will be converted to estrogen!
*Quote: “The genital-pelvic region is packed with testosterone receptors that are ultra-sensitive to free testosterone-induced sexual stimulation. Clinical studies using testosterone injections, creams, or patches have often failed to provide a long-lasting, libido-enhancing effect in aging men (98). We now know why. The testosterone can be converted to estrogen. The estrogen is then taken up by testosterone receptor sites in cells throughout the body. When an estrogen molecule occupies a testosterone receptor site on a cell membrane, it blocks the ability of serum testosterone to induce a healthy hormonal signal. It does not matter how much serum free testosterone is available if excess estrogen is competing for the same cellular receptor sites. Estrogen can also increase the production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), which binds the active free testosterone into an inactive "bound testosterone." Bound testosterone cannot be picked up by testosterone receptors on cell membranes. For testosterone to produce long-lasting, libido-enhancing effects, it must be kept in the "free" form (not bound to SHBG) in the bloodstream. It is also necessary to suppress excess estrogen because this hormone can compete for testosterone receptor sites in the sex centers of the brain and the genitals.”
- 08-09-2003, 09:35 AM
I just showed him a tube of Testrogel that I had and told him that Androgel was the prescription strength version, and that I wanted to try it. He wrote me a scrip good for a year. Then when I found out how much the gel cost, I had him switch it to the patch, it's cheaper and easier to use than the gel. To get enough of the gel you have to use it 5-6 times a day, and each time should not cover up for at least 20 minutes. The gel and patches aren't really cost effective, but can be used the way you might use test prop at the beginning or end of a cycle, since it's in and out of your system quickly.
- 08-09-2003, 12:23 PM
Hey there, this is my first time on a board like this so please bare with me. you talk about SHBG affecting the levels of free test that can be used, what if anything can you tell me about useing Diindolylmethane to reduce SHBG and free up a lot more test for the body to use? I saw it on a site from Austraila claiming the body make all the test you need but SHBG prevents it from being useable. According to them Diindolylmethane reduces the amount of SHBG freeing up the test for use. The american sites I looked at about it described it as, I guess an estrogen controler for women but they never mentioned it for use in men or as a bodybuilding sup. Maybe this has to do with FDA regs regarding advertizing? The price of it is so low if it has value, I would like to know more about it.
Thanks for any help
08-09-2003, 07:06 PM
Please feel free to comment on my fasting blood chemistry taken on
my 53 birthday. I have been hypogonadic for over a year due to 1-T,
4AD, boldione, 5AA and Nordiol. I have been off the prohormones for a number of months now - time enough for a restoration of the HTPA. My problem is not a result of aging but of the above androgen usage.
Testosterone - 282 ng
Free T - 90 pg, near the median for my age
Bio T - 173 normal is [84-402]
SHBG - 16 [7-50] low normal
Estradiol - 59 [0-50] rather high, bad T/E ratio.
Prolactin - 4.7 low normal
LH - 9.3 high normal
FSH - 8.2 Mid range
TSH - mid range
glucose - 91
HDL Chol - 42
Triglycerides - 116
Total Chol - 159
Chol/HDL ratio - 3.8 good normal
Rest of blood work including blood counts completely within normal limits.
Last week I started a diet of 10 calories per pound of weight and
bicycle cycling of 120 miles per week to reduce my fat weight 30 pounds.
After I lose this weight I plan to start a 1-Test cycle of 4 weeks using
150mg of Test Ether/day dissolved in sesame oil taken 3 times / day.
Will this result in too much HTPA repression? I plan to take 6-OXO or
Formastat for recovery afterwards.
I am awaiting your comments.
08-09-2003, 10:21 PM
out of my league/not my purpose...
Guys I enjoy the positive attitudes, but I think you guys are out of my league...
I'm sorry, I have no interest or knowledge about steroid use.
I posted my letter with the desire to help older men like myself.
Good luck in your quest for knowledge but I don't know enough to help you. So if I don't reply, please understand I am not being rude, I just don't have the knowledge to help you, plus I think the synthetics are dangerous.
Androgel is made to naturally simulate your own production, it is not a bodybuilding supplement, unless you used a huge amount.
08-10-2003, 09:57 PM
Testosterone Gel is a steroid and inhibits recovery - as long as you take it your LH & FSH would be inhibited. Testosterone gel is used for Primary Hypogonadism which means limited testicle production - as a means to bring levels up to about 550 ng. Androgel does not naturally stimulate testosterone production - in fact just the opposite. My gonads are still working! And I plan to bring them up to speed. I am not an old geezer - I can still beat most men half my age around the track.
Upon thinking about it - I think I will take 50 mg before training - once per day instead of three times / day. This shall greatly reduce inhibition and facilitate a faster recovery at the price of smaller gains. My problem upon reflection is the low Testosterone to Estrogen ratio - which is something I can deal with on my own. Doctors are a pain in the ass to deal with. I use them to get information and feedback - like the lab report I shared with you. My doctor would never prescribe Androge because all my lab results are all within normal limits and his attitude is why fix something that ain't broke? Androgel like synthetic thyroid is not a cure but a supplement used to correct low values to restore healthful functioning. It is my good luck that I happen to be in the top 10% in terms of health for my age. I have to take care of myself - which is what I am doing.
08-11-2003, 02:30 AM
Frankie I think you have the knowledge to do this, as you have stated. Good luck..Oh I did not mean stimulate, I think I wrote simulate?
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