Help me plan my first cycle!

  1. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Help me plan my first cycle!


    I'm very interested in doing an epistane/clone cycle, but I am a major NEWB to compounds this strong, so please do not flame. I want to make the best gains while on a cycle and keep as much as possible. I know that I will need to eat more while keeping it clean.

    Please help me figure out what else I need to take to be 100%safe and keep all of my gains.

    As of right now this is what I plan on running:
    Optimum- 100% Whey and Serious Mass
    IBE- Epistane or EST- Methyl E
    Competitive Edge Labs- H-Drol
    Scivation-Xtend
    Nature's Science- Milk Thistle
    Toremifene

  2. Board Sponsor
    Aggravated's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,746
    Rep Power
    1501
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    50.94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bwrestler31 View Post
    I'm very interested in doing an epistane/clone cycle, but I am a major NEWB to compounds this strong, so please do not flame. I want to make the best gains while on a cycle and keep as much as possible. I know that I will need to eat more while keeping it clean.

    Please help me figure out what else I need to take to be 100%safe and keep all of my gains.

    As of right now this is what I plan on running:
    Optimum- 100% Whey and Serious Mass
    IBE- Epistane or EST- Methyl E
    Competitive Edge Labs- H-Drol
    Scivation-Xtend
    Nature's Science- Milk Thistle
    Toremifene
    Being that this is your first cycle, I would stay away from the h-drol. Or at least take one or the other. Preferably the Epi. h-drol will kick your liver in the balls. Do your research man! Also, I see that you are taking NO ON CYCLE OR POST CYCLE SUPPORT. Like I said, do your research or have fun with your horrible lipid profile.
  3. Board Sponsor
    Aggravated's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,746
    Rep Power
    1501
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    50.94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I am not sure if the milk thistle will be enough for h-drol.
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Being that this is your first cycle, I would stay away from the h-drol. Or at least take one or the other. Preferably the Epi. h-drol will kick your liver in the balls. Do your research man! Also, I see that you are taking NO ON CYCLE OR POST CYCLE SUPPORT. Like I said, do your research or have fun with your horrible lipid profile.
    Well for a PCT I'm going with torem. For on and pcs supports I was thinking about AI cycle support and post cycle support... I do not really have anything set in stone. I haven't ordered anything yet and do not plan on starting a cycle until march. Right now I'm just looking for some help/tips so I am fully ready for a great cycle in a couple months.
  5. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    H-Drol really is quite mild from everything I read.. Liver toxicity really shouldn't be an issue, either way, with epi or h-drol.

    Get yourself some Cycle Support and run it during cycle and post cycle.
  6. Senior Member
    LilPsychotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,606
    Rep Power
    902
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    90.3%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    H-Drol really is quite mild from everything I read.. Liver toxicity really shouldn't be an issue, either way, with epi or h-drol.

    Get yourself some Cycle Support and run it during cycle and post cycle.
    I agree, h-drol is pretty mild (compared to other designers in terms of hepatoxicity and HPTA shutdown).
  7. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    H-Drol really is quite mild from everything I read.. Liver toxicity really shouldn't be an issue, either way, with epi or h-drol.

    Get yourself some Cycle Support and run it during cycle and post cycle.
    Alright thanks man.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilPsychotic View Post
    I agree, h-drol is pretty mild (compared to other designers in terms of hepatoxicity and HPTA shutdown).
    Agreed. I hope I do not have any shutdown.
  8. Board Sponsor
    Aggravated's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,746
    Rep Power
    1501
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    50.94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    H-Drol really is quite mild from everything I read.. Liver toxicity really shouldn't be an issue, either way, with epi or h-drol.

    Get yourself some Cycle Support and run it during cycle and post cycle.
    Sorry, my mistake. I get that and m-drol confused. Sorry for the misleading post.
  9. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Sorry, my mistake. I get that and m-drol confused. Sorry for the misleading post.
    Yeah, way to try and warn him though, m-drol is straight up nazzsty!
  10. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    Sorry, my mistake. I get that and m-drol confused. Sorry for the misleading post.
    It's alright man. I know h-drol has mild sides when compaired to m-drol.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Yeah, way to try and warn him though, m-drol is straight up nazzsty!
    I appreciate any help. I rather have someone tell me something is worse then it is then make it seem like there is no sides.
  11. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bwrestler31 View Post
    It's alright man. I know h-drol has mild sides when compaired to m-drol.



    I appreciate any help. I rather have someone tell me something is worse then it is then make it seem like there is no sides.
    Hey, you wanted cycle advice too right? Like, I mean, do you have any specific questions? Your first one was QUITE vague..
  12. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Hey, you wanted cycle advice too right? Like, I mean, do you have any specific questions? Your first one was QUITE vague..
    Well obviously I know that I need to ramp up epi, but I'm not sure how to dose epi and h-drol. Should I go 4 weeks epi then 2 h-drol and at what doses?
  13. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bwrestler31 View Post
    Well obviously I know that I need to ramp up epi, but I'm not sure how to dose epi and h-drol. Should I go 4 weeks epi then 2 h-drol and at what doses?
    Really, I'd just stick with a 4 weeker of epi..

    Imo, 2 weeks on h-drol isn't worth it; it takes a while to kick in, at least 3 or 4 weeks from what I've read.
  14. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Some of my body stats:
    5'10"
    177-182lbs depending on time of day and food/water intake.
    10% bodyfat-estimated.

    I've been training for a few years on and off. I got serious about strength training in September 2006 and competed in my first powerlifting competition in November 2006. Since then I've gained quality mass with good strength gains. I always bulk in spring because I'm to active with sports/classes in the fall/winter and in the summer I am to busy with work to really keep my diet 100%.

    What I want from this cycle: I'm hoping to be 190-195lbs. I know most people are gaining 5-15lbs with just epi. I hope that by adding h-drol and a serm I hope my gains will be pretty lean and I will be able to keep them.

    The training game plan:
    Current:
    For the last 3-4 months I've been doing a lot of mat work and cardio to improve my overall shape for wrestling. When I say a lot I mean I go all out. I'm on the mats atleast 12-18 hours a week. I also have been doing slight dehyration/skipping meals when I have to cut on short notice. This has had a negative effect on my lifting. I've only been weight training 1-3 hours a week. My strength and size have both went down a bit since October, but this was expected.

    The change:
    I plan on changing my training at the end of Feb. I will cut the cardio/mat time to 3-9 hours a week. I will also be weight training to 6-10 hours a week.

    The diet game plan:
    Current:
    Right now my diet is high carbs, medium fat and protein intake. With any other type of diet I get tired or always feel hungry. I think my body need carbs to keep a normal flow of energy during my long training sessions.

    The change:
    I am going to lower the carbs and up the protein. I will moniter my intake and aim for taking in 400g protein, 400g carbs, and 150g fat.

    With the change in my diet, supplementation, and training I should be able to gain my strength back quickly.
  15. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Most Importantly!

    No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

    SERM + P.C.T Guide

    Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

    Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.


    1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

    Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
    Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
    Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
    Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

    You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

    Example Nolva Dosing:
    Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
    Wk2: 20mg everyday
    Wk3: 10mg everyday
    Wk4: 10mg everyday

    I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

    3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

    1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

    3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

    With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

    Things To Note

    1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

    2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


    3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums
    From this I am more confused. I understand that this quote has everything I need in it, but I'm not sure I understand it 100%.

    As I ramp down my torem I am going to go
    Week 1 @ 120mg
    Week 2@ 60mg
    Week 3@ 60mg
    Week 4 @ 30mg

    How should I ramp up the Formestane doses?

    What does should I take AI-Cycle Support during/post cycle?

    Should I take an anti cort and test booster or is it overkill? If I should what doses of which product would you recommend?

    Thanks for all the help so far guys. I'm trying to make this the safest cycle possible and keep all the gains!
  16. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Well guys I've done a bit more research and have come up with this:

    Week 1: Epidrol@20mg
    Week 2: Epidrol@30mg
    Week 3: Epidrol@30mg
    Week 4: Epidrol@40mg
    Week 5: Torem@120mg
    Week 6: Torem@60mg
    Week 7: Torem@60mg
    Week 8: Torem@30mg

    Weeks 1-4:
    Cycle Support- 2 per day
    Fish Oil- 4 per day
    Multi- 2 per day
    Creatine- 10g per day
    Glutamine- 10g per day

    Weeks 5-8
    Cycle Support- 2 per day
    Liver Longer- 1 per day
    Retain2- 1 per day
    Multi- 2 per day

    Looking for any changes That could be made. Will be makeing a order tonight or tm.
  17. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Supplementation:

    Week 1: Epistane@20mg
    Week 2: Epistane@30mg
    Week 3: Epistane@30mg
    Week 4: Epistane@40mg
    Week 5: Torem@120mg
    Week 6: Torem@60mg
    Week 7: Torem@60mg
    Week 8: Torem@30mg

    Weeks 1-4:
    Cycle Support- 2 per day
    Fish Oil- 4 per day
    Multi- 2 per day
    Creatine- 10g per day
    Glutamine- 10g per day

    Weeks 5-8
    Cycle Support- 2 per day
    Liver Longer- 1 per day
    Retain2- 1 per day
    Multi- 2 per day


    Nutrition:

    Week 1: 350 protein, 350 carbohydrates, 150 fats- 4,150calories
    Week 2: 360 protein, 360 carbohydrates, 160 fats- 4,320calories
    Week 3: 370 protein, 370 carbohydrates, 170 fats- 4,490calories
    Week 4: 380 protein, 380 carbohydrates, 180 fats- 4,660calories
    Week 5: 390 protein, 390 carbohydrates, 190 fats- 4,830calories
    Week 6: 400 protein, 400 carbohydrates, 200 fats- 5,000calories
    Week 7: 400 protein, 400 carbohydrates, 200 fats- 5,000calories
    Week 8: 400 protein, 400 carbohydrates, 200 fats- 5,000calories

    Training:

    Sunday: Chest
    Monday: Quads/Hamstrings/Calves
    Tuesday: Biceps/Triceps
    Wednesday: REST
    Thursday: Upper Back/ Lower Back
    Friday: Shoulders/Traps/Abs
    Saturday: REST


    How does that look guys?
  18. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    looks good to me!

  19. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    looks good to me!

    Good! I really am trying to do this cycle right. I want to minimize all of the side effects.
  20. Professional Member
    ozarkaBRAND's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    5602
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    98.91%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bwrestler31 View Post
    Good! I really am trying to do this cycle right. I want to minimize all of the side effects.
    Sides shouldn't be no big thing, especially with epi. Good luck mayne!
  21. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    It feels like Christmas all over again. I recieved all my stuff yesterday and I was pumped.

    I got:
    4x Epidrol
    2x Cycle Support
    1x Activate Xtreme
    1x Retain 2
    1x Liver Longer
    1x Flax Seed oil
    1x Fish Oil
    1x 5lbs. Whey

    I'm planning on starting March 16th, and I will keep a log.
  22. New Member
    bwrestler31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    179
    Rep Power
    172
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    77.82%

    Well everyone. Wrestling season is finally over for me. I'm ready for this cycle to start! I have a contest on the April 20th, and I don't want to lose any strength the last week before the contest, but I will finish my cycle atleast a week before the contest. Will my strength go down during pct while I'm on torem?

    My buddy did the exact same cycle, and he gained ~10lbs. He didn't really notice any strength gains until he got off Epi and started Torem. Is this normal? If so it will fit perfectly into my scedual!
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Help me plan my third cycle!
    By revencer in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 12:17 PM
  2. help me build my first cycle please
    By crazyrocketfa in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-30-2009, 12:07 AM
  3. help with planning my first cycle
    By scienceboy in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2006, 07:26 PM
  4. Help me pick my first cycle
    By nas7 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-20-2005, 12:25 AM
  5. Help me plan my next cycle please
    By gsteclipse97 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-29-2004, 10:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in