Cissis raws for steriods
- 12-09-2007, 10:27 AM
Cissis raws for steriods
just an idea --if you where to take 50% cissis and any kind of real gear together .Would the anabolic side of cissus help to enhance your gear of choice?.When you hear about sterols and such,their described as being one step away from coverting to steriod like sub.So if real gear was taken together would the cissus kind of make the raws for your gear of choice?
- 12-09-2007, 10:37 AM
No. It is a good idea to take Cissus while on gear however. Blocking the elevated cortisol can help keep your anabolism at peak along with the joint protection and increased recovery. Cissus is a staple for me year round.Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
12-09-2007, 10:57 AM
-plant sterol supplementation: metabolic, endocrine, and physiologic effects.
Wheeler KB, Garleb KA.
Medical Department, Ross Laboratories, Columbus, OH 43216.
The use of gamma-oryzanol and phytosterols is gaining popularity among various athletic populations. These compounds are being consumed in the belief that they elicit anabolic effects ranging from increased testosterone production and release to stimulating human growth hormone release. However, published scientific studies suggest that these compounds are poorly absorbed. Furthermore, animal studies indicate that when these compounds are injected subcutaneously or intravenously, they induce antianabolic or catabolic activity. Normally, less than 5% of orally consumed phytosterols are absorbed from the intestinal tract, with the majority being excreted in the feces. Intravenous or subcutaneous injections of gamma-oryzanol in rats have been shown to suppress luteinizing hormone release, reduce growth hormone synthesis and release, and increase release of the catecholamines, dopamine and norepinephrine, in the brain. Although it hasn't been directly measured, this metabolic milieu, if accurate, may actually reduce testosterone production.
Note the passage about the plant sterols exhibiting a catabolic effect when injected. Since numerous experiments have shown Cissus to be anabolic, here again is evidence that these plant sterols are only contributing a minor effect, if at all, to the action of Cissus -------------------------------------------Can anyone say why-- ingest cissus =good ---inject bad?
12-09-2007, 08:46 PM
12-10-2007, 05:57 AM
12-10-2007, 08:31 AM
12-10-2007, 08:56 AM
Gamma-oryzanol is a completely different plant sterol, whose "anabolic" actions come from it's ferulic acid ester. G) is supposedly used as a selective androgen receptor modulator, and yes, the carboxylate is found in MHP's SARM-X (just gives you an idea of how high this sterol should be thought of).
Now back to your incredibly HUGE generalization. Is the active sterol in Cissus GO? No, there's several active sterols in cissus, none of which is GO. But you're using data on GO to justify your claims on Cissus. Is there a logical connection I am missing?
Are you making this connection as they are both plant-based compounds containing a steroid skeleton; therefore, all plant based compounds containing a steroid skeleton act exactly the same? Do you see the flaws in this line of thinking?
12-10-2007, 09:26 AM
just for the sake of the topic, could you even make cissus sterile enough to inject? Could you separate the sterols and make and injectable solution?
12-10-2007, 10:44 AM
I like your term "STERIOD SKELETON" that brings me to the 1st post .If your taking cissus whick has many' skeletons ' and also take somthing like durabolan [which has similar prop] then why wouldnt cissus help to amplify the durabolan?
12-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Effect of phytogenic steroid of Cissus quadrangularis on endocrine glands after fracture. Prasad, Guru C.; Chatterjee, Samar; Udupa, K. N. Dep. Shalya Shalakya, Post Grad. Inst. Indian Med., Varanasi, India. Journal of Research in Indian Medicine (1970), 4(2), 132-42. CODEN: JRIMAO ISSN: 0022-4286. Journal written in English. CAN 74:135800 AN 1971:135800 CAPLUS
Expts. with the phytogenic steroid were performed in young rats following exptl. bone fracture of the right humerus. Examn. of pituitary, thyroid, and adrenal glands indicated no abnormalities, but an increase in wet wt. and histol. changes were obsd. in the testes. Androgenic effects were excluded in a comparison with Durabolin. It was concluded that this hormonal steroid has an action similar to Durabolin, which may explain the reported bone-healing properties of this drug.
Indexing -- Section 4 (Hormones and Related Substances)
Studies on the active constituents of Cissus quadrangularis. II. Sen, S. P. Coll. Med. Sci., Hindu Univ., Banaras, Current Science (1966), 35(12), 317. CODEN: CUSCAM ISSN: 0011-3891. Journal written in English. CAN 65:56998 AN 1966:456998 CAPLUS
cf. CA 62, 4075d. Results of chromatographic fractionation, m.p. detns., ir studies, and microchem. anal. of the steroidal principles found in C. quadrangularis are described.
Active constituents (oxo steroids) of Cissus quadrangularis. Sen, S. P. Dept. Pharmacol., Banaras Hindu Univ., Indian Journal of Pharmacy (1964), 26(9), 247-8. CODEN: IJPAAO ISSN: 0019-5472. Journal written in English. CAN 62:22726 AN 1965:22726 CAPLUS
An ether ext. of C. quadrangularis, purified by column chromatography, yielded an oxo steroid, m. 134-6°; Ac deriv. m. 124°. The uv and ir spectra suggested an a,b-unsatd. ketone.
Indexing -- Section 42 (Steroids)
(keto, from Cissus quadrangularis)
Spectra, visible and ultraviolet
(of keto steroid from Cissus quadrangularis)
(oxo steroid from)
(nuclear magnetic resonance of)
152-58-9, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 17,21-dihydroxy-
600-48-6, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 6b,11a-dihydroxy-
640-87-9, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 17,21-dihydroxy-, 21-acetate
803-08-7, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 15a,17,21-trihydroxy-
1235-92-3, Androst-4-ene-3,17-dione, 7a,14-dihydroxy-
1758-12-9, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 15a,17,21-trihydroxy-, 15,21-diacetate
1758-13-0, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 15b,17,21-trihydroxy-, 21-acetate
1758-14-1, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 15b,17,21-trihydroxy-, 15,21-diacetate
1974-64-7, Pregn-4-ene-3,20-dione, 6b,11a-dihydroxy-, diacetate
(nuclear magnetic resonance of)
1758-15-2, Androst-4-ene-3,17-dione, 7a,14-dihydroxy-, 7-acetate
94963-21-0, Pregn-4-ene-3,15,20-trione, 17,21-dihydroxy-
12-10-2007, 11:12 AM
Patrick Arnold12-02-2005, 01:18 PM
I doubt they would lie in a published study about the method used. And if anything I'd be more doubtful of the fact they used nuclear magnetic resonance , which is far more expensive. It seems to contain a lot of progestins.
I might also add that the use of most any steroid that isn't frequently used would go unnoticed in a drug test, that's the reason most designer steroids cause such a stir. With andro, I don't know if the latest tests are being used in bodybuilding yet, I doubt it. The slight rise in test it causes would likely also go unnoticed since for some reason doping tests continue to use the 6-1 epi to test ratio (and the use of andro is likely to increase epi somewhat as well) despite more sensitive tests being available. There is also a lot of discussion about the quality of drug testing in the natural BB circuit.
Now back to my point, I don't really know of any steroid that works anabolically via other means than the classic nuclear receptors (at least not to any significant degree), which means the product would act androgenic, estrogenic or progestagenic to some degree if it really worked, or it simply wouldn't work via the steroidal substance.
according to the studies i have read on cissus and anabolic/androgenic activity it is some strange 15-hydroxylated androgen that is responsible for the anabolism
such an androgen would be uncharacterized and not detectable
whether it is present in commercial cissus, and if so at what quantity, i do not know
12-10-2007, 01:29 PM
While I see nothing wrong with stacking durabolin with cissus (aside from estrogenic sides to come from both), there is currently not enough information to make such an assumption.
1) We don't know what sterols are in this particular extract.
2) Since we don't know what sterols are in the particular extracts, we sure as **** can't know HOW they do what they do.
You're comparison on Cissus vs. Deca on bone healing is just that, bone healing. How does it heal the bones? Is it done through the same mechanism as Deca? From what's been posted, nothing can say.
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