just bought 19nordione is it really that bad ?
- 07-29-2003, 11:45 AM
- 07-29-2003, 12:02 PM
Any dione hormone is more likely to convert to estrogen for chemical reasons. It also has a lower conversion rate to active. Its not worthless but its close. You would need to take a pretty significant estro inhibitor with it.
- 07-29-2003, 02:06 PM
no you can use it but not alone , buy some 19 diol and 4-ad or just 19 diol to make estrogen low and nor testosterone conversion high
07-29-2003, 02:10 PM
I state again I would NOT run 19 nor without an estrogen inhibitor(like arimidex) unless of course you want to have tits
07-29-2003, 02:50 PM
ok so if I get some 19 nordiol and combine them will i still need to take an anti e with it ? Its made by ast btw thanks guys
07-29-2003, 03:09 PM
07-29-2003, 03:39 PM
wot kinds of anti es are we talking about here clomid nolva arimidex liquidex ? I was just going to take some tribulus and some vitex post cycle. Im thinking Ive wasted my money on these ******* 19nor I should have just got some 19nordiol. Why do I need to run anti es along with these ?
07-29-2003, 05:56 PM
the hormne 19nor can convert directly into estrogen it also only has a 5 % conversion to nor testosterone. It is a crappy precursor, and it can cause unwanted estrogen related sides. Taking it with an anti aromatose ( liquidex, femera etc) is your best bet. Perhaps stack with a transdermal 4 ad( they convert via different enzymes) and said anti aromatose for a good lean bulker. I was a bit short earlier because I was at work. They are not worthless but your money could have been better spent elsewhere.
07-30-2003, 05:41 AM
Anyone else got an opinion ? What would happen if I were to run it alone ?
07-30-2003, 07:32 AM
07-30-2003, 07:54 AM
You may get bitch tits but if use as directed you shouldn't. if you take it orally then you liver will break it down for the first couple of weeks. Also if you run it alone water retention may be bad and your libido will be likely to go to hell. The anabolic effect of it alone will be very little at most.
07-30-2003, 07:58 AM
07-30-2003, 10:09 AM
so if I get some 19nordiol and run them both together will that be ok will I still need to run an anti e with them ?
07-30-2003, 10:19 AM
07-30-2003, 10:25 AM
Here is an article that may help. And transdermal delivery is the best way to go. check out the member store or legalgear.com 1-test with 4-ad makes a much better choice than nor-diol with nor-dione.http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm
07-30-2003, 11:55 AM
you wasted your money--should have researched first
07-30-2003, 12:06 PM
Well someone finally said it. Just becareful next time. Like spike said research. Too many people just buy something and try it without fully understanding it.
07-31-2003, 11:15 AM
how does the diol version compare?
07-31-2003, 01:29 PM
Diols of both 4 and Nor have approx a 15% conversion rate which could be greater utilized if using topical thus avoiding liver degradation of prohormone compound.
07-31-2003, 09:00 PM
oh yeah, that's the only way i'm doing any of the stuff anymore. i had my doubts until i tried the transderms, but it's the only way to go. (for us non-stickers!)
07-31-2003, 09:25 PM
The advantages include no estrogen or DHT prior to conversion on the basis of it being a diol version, and only a fifth the DHT conversion afterwards because it has nandrolone as a target hormone. It's almost twice as anabolic as its dione counterpart and in terms of gains can match 4-diol milligram for milligram
the estrogen issues are only related to the nor diones -- not the nor diols correct?
07-31-2003, 10:49 PM
Now that was a cut and paste Big Cat article if you are reading this PC1 not that its wrong its just exactly what he said.
Correct diones have more estrogen effects than diols
08-01-2003, 03:09 PM
19Nordione is quite useless due to its extremely low (5,61%) conversion rate to target hormone (nandrolone). However, even if you got some 19Nordiol you wouldn't get a lot out of it if you chose to take it orally. Oral delivery is a much worse problem than that of conversion rate.
If you took 19nordione transdermally you would get more out of it than taking 19nordiol orally. You do the math. Oral assimilation 5% while transdermal assimilation (DMSO+IPM+OA+PG+Alcohol isopropyl) = 40%.
If you chose to take 1 gram of 19nordione transdermally daily you might have quite a similar effect to that of 140mg of nandrolone decanate weekly. However:
1) You would most likely get bitch tits as bad as they get
2) 140 mg of nandrolone weekly are enough to inhibit your HPTA down to zero and are probably not enough to compensate your endogenous testosterone deficiency, which translates in:
- LOSING muscle
-extremely screwed estrogen:testosterone ratio
08-01-2003, 06:48 PM
i've got 25gms of norDIOL. will definitely use it transderm. i'm told not to use it with 4ad because they will only compete for same receptor. i'm told it will "shut me down HARD" especially with 1-test. how (can) i use this stuff? thanx for all the quality info.
08-02-2003, 06:09 AM
A transdermal application every 12 hours will be fine. Keep in mind not to use over 50mg of prohormone for every 1ml of solution.
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