Which OTC Designer is the PH to Tren
- 12-04-2007, 07:26 PM
I know everyone is about to scream DHEA, but its not. This is the 4-isomer (DHEA is the 5 isomer) and it should have significantly higher conversion to test.
It should convert to 4-diol via 17bHSD and then interconvert between 4AD and testosterone. On paper, this should be a very good replacement for the traditional 4AD product.
Now, has anyone actually tried it?
- 12-04-2007, 07:32 PM
Start reading around the top of page 2: 4-AD by AMS...any good?
I believe this is the thread where the guy got blood tests done.RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
12-04-2007, 07:43 PM
Didn't bother going through and reading the other posts, but I know the answer to your question:
THERE AREN'T ANY!!!!
12-04-2007, 07:45 PM
12-04-2007, 07:48 PM
12-04-2007, 08:00 PM
So it looks like Morph got some changes in blood levels but not sure if that would translate to increases in libido when other compounds might be supressing libido (tren derivatives). Also there is some concern that ATD causes false positive increases in testosterone measurment because the ATD itself is mistaken for testosterone upon analysis.
12-04-2007, 08:49 PM
Also, both 4-diol and testosterone have been proven to improve libido. I'm not sure what kind of androgenic activity the 4-andorsterone has (if any) but its major metabolites should help with the libido issue.
Honestly, I think that this is your best bet for libido enhancement as most of the current crop of designers really seem to kill sex drive for many.
If you want to go the non-androgen route though, you might want to give aspire a shot. It definitely works, but in my case caused some pretty nasty sides. Also, it really will only help with possible ED problems...probably won't give you a significant increase in libido.
12-05-2007, 12:04 AM
I agree the 4AD may be worth a shot but I would be way more convinced if it converted to 4-ADIOL but remember it actually converts to 4-ADIONE this is a huge difference in my opinion because the conversion from the dione to test is not very efficient at all. If it was the DIOL on the other hand that would be a different story.
12-05-2007, 11:58 AM
you might want to try out Dermacrine. It helped me keep my libido up on an Epistane cycle. Since there has been all this commotion about Trenadrol and Methoxy-TRN being completely different compounds I don't know how ALRI's version will effect your libido, but FWIW Trenadrol was like Viagra for me.
12-05-2007, 12:10 PM
Which supports my theory that tren-**** is caused by the sexual organs being over-stimulated, and burn out (which parallels one of the theories as to how DHT, a steroid that promotes hair growth, causes hairloss).
12-05-2007, 07:43 PM
12-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Quigs, I believe you but in the other thread all of th eposters claimed it would convert to 4-dione rather then 4-diol. What would be the best way of clearing up this discrepancy and determinging which it will become?
12-05-2007, 07:52 PM
if I recall correctly from what I've read in the past the Dione version will convert to Diol albeit at a much lower rate and there will also be much more aromatization into estrogen.
12-05-2007, 07:56 PM
In addition, I found where PA commented on this product in a thread on bb.com a couple weeks ago:
I know its not much, but I'd have to assume that he's thinking along the same lines.Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
12-05-2007, 08:08 PM
4-androdiol step or the 4-androdione step, it only seems to address that the functional group is on the right carbon but not what functional group it is....
12-05-2007, 08:50 PM
Focus more on the left side. Now for purposes, we are going to pretend that DHEA is actually 4-DHEA (4-androsterone). Now if you look, DHEA converts to androstenediol via 17-beta HSD. 4-DHEA will convert the same way, except to 4-diol. Now, the main thing to remember here is that 17-beta HSD is the main enzyme we're going to face in the GI tract....its the same thing that seems to convert oral testosterone into androstendione interfering with testosterone's oral bioavailability. We are not going to see much, if any, 3-beta HSD enzyme in the GI...which would cause conversion to 4-DIONE. This product will be taken orally, so that's what we want.
Now, where we're going to see a lot of 3-beta HSD is in liver and muscle tissue. So what the progression should be is:
4-androsterone--->4-diol (via 17-beta HSD in the gut) then...
4-diol---->testosterone (via 3-beta HSD in the liver/muscle tissue)
Here's a paper for a bit more support:
Originally Posted by PUBMED
12-05-2007, 10:17 PM
12-05-2007, 10:55 PM
If u want a tren product just buy IBE's Epistane. Neoborn can explain it in detail for u. Isn't that right Neo!!
12-06-2007, 02:55 PM
I don't know if this means anything but I'm on day 6 of a 30mg epi and 50mg of halo. I've done 2 preivous cycles of halo and libido on it was through the roof. My libido before this was awesome. Only day 6 and its as if my libido is shot to sh1t. Kinda weird I don't know what to think of this mistery compound.
12-06-2007, 02:59 PM
Dont forget about G.E.T's new product(makers of Sus500) Tren 250 they have it for sale at my local supp store yet I havent found it on line
01-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Mr.50---- I have a suggestion for the libido issues. Get you some horny goat weed powder (40% icariin) at CNW for $9.99 per 50 grams. Take a gram a day divided into 2 doses. This will greatly help the libido!!!
01-08-2008, 11:56 AM
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