SHGB, testosterone, and steroid cycles

[pudzian2]

SHBG SUCKS!.....

I think there isnt enough attention being brought to SHBG and its inhibition of testosterones effects. I am on a cycle with a base of test, and I seem to be leveling off gains wise even though I upped the dosages a little. (it may be just in my head).....Regardless, I think that my body, as anyone's body would, is doing its thing to create homeostasis. That is, it is upregulating SHBG production to compensate for all of the exogenous testosterone.

I know there are several herbs good for SHBG lowering and also some steroids like winny that do a good job at this::

Anyone else with related concerns?

What types of herbal therapies are people using while ON to get the most form the test?

 

[TripDog]

I took bulk needle root with my test.Your body raises levels of shbg when levels of test increase whether it be natural or synthetic.

 

[aspire210]

Estrogen causes SHBG levels to rise. So controlling estrogen will help to control SHBG. You could try nettle root, as someone said earlier. Insulin also can murder SHBG, but its risks out weigh its benefits.

 

[pudzian2]

I actually use insulin 10IU PWO 3x week. I was thinking about getting 1 of, or a combo of:

mira pauma (spelling**)
Nettle
Urtica diocana (**spelling)

I've heard they are all good for lowering SHBG.

 

[pistonpump]

I actually use insulin 10IU PWO 3x week. I was thinking about getting 1 of, or a combo of:

mira pauma (spelling**)
Nettle
Urtica diocana (**spelling)

I've heard they are all good for lowering SHBG.

try the first two.

cant remember what that urtica stuff is....

 

[aspire210]

try the first two.

cant remember what that urtica stuff is....

the 3rd is the strongest SHBG binding element of nettle root, its what they are standardized for.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Testosterone exhibits non-genomic effects even when bound to SHBG. The theory that only free testosterone is active is false.

 

[pudzian2]

Testosterone exhibits non-genomic effects even when bound to SHBG. The theory that only free testosterone is active is false.

could you explain this more...maybe provide some research or something

 

[aspire210]

Testosterone exhibits non-genomic effects even when bound to SHBG. The theory that only free testosterone is active is false.

could you explain this more...maybe provide some research or something

I have a partial explanation. There are two types of bound testosterone, albumin and SHBG. Albumin is also referred to as weakly bound. SHBG only accounts for ~50% of testosterone in the normal male body. Free is only a very small percent. Albumin bound makes up the other ~48% and is biologically active in the body. maybe thats what he meant?

EDIT: re-read his statement. I some how only saw "bound test" the first time. I don't know how SHBG bound test is active, but i figured my information was at least relevant so I'll leave it.

 

[pudzian2]

I have a partial explanation. There are two types of bound testosterone, albumin and SHBG. Albumin is also referred to as weakly bound. SHBG only accounts for ~50% of testosterone in the normal male body. Free is only a very small percent. Albumin bound makes up the other ~48% and is biologically active in the body. maybe thats what he meant?

EDIT: re-read his statement. I some how only saw "bound test" the first time. I don't know how SHBG bound test is active, but i figured my information was at least relevant so I'll leave it.

thanks, yea that makes sense. I am going to give bulk nettle root a try, I'll see if that puts an edge on my cycle here.

 

[pudzian2]

I still think there should be more discussion about the bound vs free test. Whether it be SHBG or alubumin bound.....It seems to make sense to me that that test is not aiding directly in anabolism. and that is something that is not in our benefit

 

[Travis]

I have a partial explanation. There are two types of bound testosterone, albumin and SHBG. Albumin is also referred to as weakly bound. SHBG only accounts for ~50% of testosterone in the normal male body. Free is only a very small percent. Albumin bound makes up the other ~48% and is biologically active in the body. maybe thats what he meant?

EDIT: re-read his statement. I some how only saw "bound test" the first time. I don't know how SHBG bound test is active, but i figured my information was at least relevant so I'll leave it.

Am I reading something wrong here, it appears Albumin is also considered active. This is from board sponsor Primordial's website:

Remember, there are three kinds of testosterone in the blood - SHBG bound, albumin bound, and free - consisting of 60-70%, 30-40% and 1-3%, of the testosterone in the blood, respectively. The saliva tests used here, test for the "bio-available" testosterone. The bio-available testosterone is the sum of "free" plus the "albumin bound" testosterone. Basically all non-SHBG bound testosterone is considered the "bio-available" or "active" testosterone. Albumin bound testosterone is considered active due to testosterones relative loose binding to the protein and ease of dissociation.

 

[aspire210]

Am I reading something wrong here, it appears Albumin is also considered active. This is from board sponsor Primordial's website:

Thats actually what I said.... read my second to last sentence

Albumin bound makes up the other ~48% and is biologically active in the body

 

[Travis]

I dont think these have been mentioned and are a bit more unproven but:

Carao
Catuaba

I dont know a lot about either or dosing. Seems like what has been mentioned are the best though.

 

[Travis]

Thats actually what I said.... read my second to last sentence

Sorry! :frustrate

 

[RedwolfWV]

mira pauma (spelling**)

Wow, I wasn't aware this helped to lower SHBG. I've got a bunch of it capped. Time to break it out.

 

[Travis]

Here's travis with more useless info.

Ahhh you speak too soon noobface. Although this study does not tell us anything in regards to SHBG it does show that Catuaba may also help decrease prolactin levels:

1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Oct;182(1):45-53. Epub 2005 Sep 29.Click here to read Links
Antidepressant-like effects of Trichilia catigua (Catuaba) extract: evidence for dopaminergic-mediated mechanisms.
Campos MM, Fernandes ES, Ferreira J, Santos AR, Calixto JB.

Department of Pharmacology, Center of Biological Sciences, Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina, Campus Universitário, 88049-900 Florianópolis, Santa Catarina, Brazil.

RATIONALE: Currently available therapy for depression treatment is often associated with several undesirable side effects, and it is effective only in a certain portion of the population. Therefore, the identification of alternative therapeutic tools for the treatment of depression is still needed. OBJECTIVE: The present study analyzed the possible antidepressant-like effects of the Brazilian medicinal plant, Trichilia catigua, in rodents. Attempts were also made to investigate some of the possible mechanisms implicated in its actions. METHODS: The antidepressant-like effects of T. catigua extract were assessed in two species of rodents (mice and rats) by means of in vivo (forced swimming test) and in vitro (monoamine reuptake and release in synaptosomal preparations) approaches. RESULTS: Acute oral treatment with the extract of T. catigua produced antidepressant-like effects in the forced swimming model in both mice and rats. Anti-immobility actions of T. catigua extract in mice were significantly reversed by haloperidol or by chlorpromazine, but not by pimozide, ketanserin, spiroxatrine or p-chlorophenylalanine. In vitro, T. catigua extract concentration-dependently inhibited the uptake and increased the release of serotonin, and especially of dopamine, from rat brain synaptosomal preparations. CONCLUSIONS: The present study provides convincing evidence for a dopamine-mediated antidepressant-like effect of the active principle(s) present in the hydroalcoholic extract of T. catigua in mice and rats when in vivo and in vitro strategies were employed. Therefore, a standardized T. catigua extract or its purified constituents could be of potential interest for the treatment of depressive disorders.

PMID: 15991001 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And here is a study that gives mention of Catuabas aphrodisiac claims:

1: Phytochem Anal. 2007 Sep 21; [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
Classification of commercial Catuaba samples by NMR, HPLC and chemometrics.
Daolio C, Beltrame FL, Ferreira AG, Cass QB, Cortez DA, Ferreira MM.

Departamento de Química, Universidade Federal de São Carlos, Rod. Washington Luis Km 235, São Carlos/SP, Brazil.

For over a century, Catuaba has been used in Brazilian folk medicine as an aphrodisiac even though the identity of the plant material employed is often uncertain. The species recommended by the Brazilian Pharmacopeia is Anemopaegma arvense (Bignoniaceae), but many other plants, regionally known as Catuaba, are commercialised. Frequently, the quality control of such a complex system is based on chemical markers that do not supply a general idea of the system. With the advent of the metabolomics approach, a global analysis of samples becomes possible. It appears that (1)H-NMR is the most useful method for such application, since it can be used as a wide-spectrum chemical analysis technique. Unfortunately, the generated spectra is complex so a possible approach is to look at the metabolite profile as a whole using multivariate methods, for example, by application of principal component analysis (PCA). In the present paper, we describe for the first time a proton high-resolution magic angle spinning nuclear magnetic resonance ((1)H-HR-MAS NMR) method coupled with PCA for the metabolomic analysis of some commercial Catuaba samples, which provided a reduction in the time required for such analysis. A comparative study of HPLC, HR-MAS and liquid-NMR techniques is also reported. Copyright (c) 2007 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 17890569 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

 

[pudzian2]

I dont think these have been mentioned and are a bit more unproven but:

Carao
Catuaba

I dont know a lot about either or dosing. Seems like what has been mentioned are the best though.

I've read about those, and also the active in longjack....

 

[ex_banana-eater]

could you explain this more...maybe provide some research or something

"It is important to remember that androgens not only have physiological effects by virtue of the intracellular androgen receptor but also through steroid hormone binding proteins (SHBP). Most people will tell you that only free testosterone is biologically active. This is false. Steroid hormones have what are referred to as nongenomic actions. These effects are believed to be the result of SHBP actually embedded in the cell membrane of target tissues, thus acting as a second messenger system, similar to the way in which catecholamines work.2,3 (For a more detailed discussion of second messenger systems, see Pharmacological approaches to fat loss: Targeting the beta adrenergic receptor). "

Bryan Haycock
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/growth-factors-02.htm

 

[Jarconis]

run a little bit of masteron with test

 

[pudzian2]

run a little bit of masteron with test

has it made a noticeable difference in your opinion? (test alone vs test with masteron that is)??

 

[wrestler119]

I used Designer Supps Activate on my last and only cycle with Test Prop. It went very well!

 

[pudzian2]

I used Designer Supps Activate on my last and only cycle with Test Prop. It went very well!

Im going to get my hands on some paravol and give it a run with the rest of my test. The actives are simlar to activate. Im gonna run activate extreme in PCT.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

SHBG SUCKS!.....

I think there isnt enough attention being brought to SHBG and its inhibition of testosterones effects.

That's because:

1. There is no proof that SHBG inhibits the anabolic effects of testosterone. Testosterone, even when bound to SHBG, is still active (as I posted earlier). We are in no way sure the entire mechanisms at work here.

2. Before it would warrant a lot of attention, some type of placebo controlled trial should show whether modulating SHBG actually brings about our intention: an increase in LBM. No research shows this and anecdotal reports are mixed at best. A claim like "I had good gains from nettle root and testosterone propionate" is not very useful since it is not unusual to have great gains from testosterone propionate.

 

[sfearl1]

i have been wondering about this for awhile. pudz you start some pretty good threads my friend!

 

[pudzian2]

i have been wondering about this for awhile. pudz you start some pretty good threads my friend!

thanks man. I skip the BS hahah...anyway these threads should benefit everyone. Each one deals with a specific aspect of responsible steroid or performance enhancer use. It would be cool to kind of package some of them up and categorize them so they can be dug up easy. Too complicated though...lol

 

[TripDog]

i have been wondering about this for awhile. pudz you start some pretty good threads my friend!

werd!!:hammer:

 

[pudzian2]

werd!!:hammer:

thanks man.

 

[nattydisaster]

Im bumping this....seems very interesting.

Also a lot of banned members in here lol

 

[small_guy]

I am bumping this as well as I am curious to more discussion regarding this topic.