Are there degrees of shutdown?
- 11-20-2007, 06:49 AM
Are there degrees of shutdown?
I keep seeing statements like,"Superdrol will shut you down harder/more than (insert compound)."
I wasn't under the impression that there is degrees of shutdown. I realize that you could be nearly shutdown, or almost shutdown, or not really shutdown, but I thought that once shutdown was reached, you were just shutdown. That you just aren't producing test anymore. I'm guessing that on long cycles, where you are completely shut down for a pretty long period, that it will take more to restart the boys. But it sounds like folks are trying to differentiate between compounds. For example, people will say that SD will shut you down harder than say Epi. I always just figured that one might shut you down faster, but once shut down, there was no difference in shutdown whether it was SD or the Epi.
I'm just not sure if it's just the way that we're all talking about the substances and that's the way the relative harshness is implied, or if there is some real difference.
Thanks!The Truth is, there is no Truth.
- 11-20-2007, 08:28 AM
im pretty sure shutdown is shutdown what matters how bad is how long you are shutdown for. But generally speaking trenbolones and nandrolones are going to shut you down harder i dont really know why this is. Saying that sdrol will shut you down harder is just saying that it will shut you down faster and recovery will be harder considering normal cycles of the compounds compared.
11-20-2007, 10:47 AM
Well, shutdown is shutdown, but some compounds will shut you down faster (probably due to how tightly the androgen bonds to the receptors)...so, bascially if you run superdrol for 4 weeks, you might be shut down by day 10, and then atrophy slowly sets in for the next 18 days. Something like a winnie PH might not fully shut you down for 3 weeks (probably longer), so there is only one weeks worth of atrophy to recover from.
I think its the degree of testicular atrophy that really determines how "Hard" the shutdown is..no atrophy lets the HPTA reset quickly, major atrophy will set you back weeks / months.
"I am on a drug, it's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available, 'cause if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body." - Charlie Sheen
11-20-2007, 10:57 AM
i was also thinking that the suppressive compound binds harder to receptors but im pretty sure tren(super suppressive) binds very weakly to the AR. Im curious to find out exactly why trenbolone and nandrolone is so good at making recovery a real pain in the ass (no pun intended).
11-20-2007, 12:16 PM
I think it is just important to employ strong ON cycle hormone control when using compounds that will have you shut down for a while. I somewhat agree that how long one is shutdown is an important variable here. I do however, believe everyone reacts to compounds differently. And whereas superdrol may shut one down quicker, epistane takes a while to cause shutdown. In this sense, each one has it's own relative degree of supression. One is faster than the other. Its only a matter of time when using any steroid that the bodies natural production will be slim to none. Once SHUTDOWN occurs it doesn't matter how it got there, it just matters how proactive about it you are in the end. Suppression is a different story. A 4 week epistane cycle is not likely to shut one down (or a winny ph etc.), but using if for 6-8 weeks may.....The degree of suppression increases over time until you are shut down. (varies by the individual user.)
11-20-2007, 12:20 PM
I think different hormones play a role in how "shutdown" you actually are. Winstrol may lower you natural test, but it doesn't completely shut your system down. I think you could get by with using the NHA stack fro PCT after a Winstrol cycle.
11-20-2007, 05:00 PM
11-20-2007, 05:17 PM
11-20-2007, 05:18 PM
I shut down while on my first real PH cycle by about week 2 (Havoc). In my current PPlex + Epi cycle (75 mg a day total) I am still not shut down with less than a week of the cycle remaining.
I think experience also helps.
11-20-2007, 06:54 PM
Mega TRN shut me down hard! I mean so hard that I never recovered no matter how many SERM's that I tried. I am on on TRT now. I think that people need to realize that your liver, BP, lipids aren't the only things that can take a beating. Permanent shutdown is always a possibility. Sometimes, If you play you pay.
11-20-2007, 07:30 PM
Cool. This is all what I figured, I'm loving this site for being able to ask these questions and not only get answers, but get intelligent discourse, too.
The Truth is, there is no Truth.
11-20-2007, 07:33 PM
[QUOTE=pudzian2;1097936]I think it is just important to employ strong ON cycle hormone control when using compounds that will have you shut down for a while.
What exactly do you mean by hormone control? Test boosters like HDX2, or something else?
The Truth is, there is no Truth.
11-20-2007, 11:55 PM
I think ON cycle control and consciousness is as important as POST CYCLE control (PCT)
11-21-2007, 12:44 AM
11-21-2007, 03:27 AM
BTW, Aspire310, thanks for clearing that up. Yea i was just going of the top of my head kinda got confused. The rise in prolactin has to be the cause of major recovery problems with nands and trens. Some guys actually get hypogonadism from their bodies producing too much prolactin, so it makes alot of sense.
11-21-2007, 06:02 AM
In addition to the prolactin problem I think it also effects dopamine levels...estrogen comes into play and then you try to get the test levels back up, not to mention keeping an eye on SHBG...it is just a lot to have to try to balance back out.
For me IGF-1 really helped my recovery from all compounds but especially those troublesome ones. I'm curious did you ever try to use IGF-1 to get back to normal?
11-21-2007, 06:08 AM
11-21-2007, 07:01 AM
11-21-2007, 08:16 AM
11-21-2007, 10:17 AM
11-21-2007, 11:10 AM
11-21-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm very gyno prone, and I usually take 10mg of Tamoxifen E3D on cycle. Seems to help, and not hinder gains at all.
11-21-2007, 05:15 PM
I had a poll a while ago about who preffered AI's vs SERMS while on for estro and gyno protection....seemed most people like AI's
11-21-2007, 11:36 PM
Ok throwing some eform while on help or is that a little to strong? And if so what would u guys recommend?
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