Are there degrees of shutdown?

[bound]

I keep seeing statements like,"Superdrol will shut you down harder/more than (insert compound)."
I wasn't under the impression that there is degrees of shutdown. I realize that you could be nearly shutdown, or almost shutdown, or not really shutdown, but I thought that once shutdown was reached, you were just shutdown. That you just aren't producing test anymore. I'm guessing that on long cycles, where you are completely shut down for a pretty long period, that it will take more to restart the boys. But it sounds like folks are trying to differentiate between compounds. For example, people will say that SD will shut you down harder than say Epi. I always just figured that one might shut you down faster, but once shut down, there was no difference in shutdown whether it was SD or the Epi.
I'm just not sure if it's just the way that we're all talking about the substances and that's the way the relative harshness is implied, or if there is some real difference.
Thanks!

 

[pistonpump]

im pretty sure shutdown is shutdown what matters how bad is how long you are shutdown for. But generally speaking trenbolones and nandrolones are going to shut you down harder i dont really know why this is. Saying that sdrol will shut you down harder is just saying that it will shut you down faster and recovery will be harder considering normal cycles of the compounds compared.

 

[Skigazzi]

Well, shutdown is shutdown, but some compounds will shut you down faster (probably due to how tightly the androgen bonds to the receptors)...so, bascially if you run superdrol for 4 weeks, you might be shut down by day 10, and then atrophy slowly sets in for the next 18 days. Something like a winnie PH might not fully shut you down for 3 weeks (probably longer), so there is only one weeks worth of atrophy to recover from.

I think its the degree of testicular atrophy that really determines how "Hard" the shutdown is..no atrophy lets the HPTA reset quickly, major atrophy will set you back weeks / months.

 

[pistonpump]

i was also thinking that the suppressive compound binds harder to receptors but im pretty sure tren(super suppressive) binds very weakly to the AR. Im curious to find out exactly why trenbolone and nandrolone is so good at making recovery a real pain in the ass (no pun intended).

 

[pudzian2]

I think it is just important to employ strong ON cycle hormone control when using compounds that will have you shut down for a while. I somewhat agree that how long one is shutdown is an important variable here. I do however, believe everyone reacts to compounds differently. And whereas superdrol may shut one down quicker, epistane takes a while to cause shutdown. In this sense, each one has it's own relative degree of supression. One is faster than the other. Its only a matter of time when using any steroid that the bodies natural production will be slim to none. Once SHUTDOWN occurs it doesn't matter how it got there, it just matters how proactive about it you are in the end. Suppression is a different story. A 4 week epistane cycle is not likely to shut one down (or a winny ph etc.), but using if for 6-8 weeks may.....The degree of suppression increases over time until you are shut down. (varies by the individual user.)

^^IMO

 

[Irish Cannon]

I think different hormones play a role in how "shutdown" you actually are. Winstrol may lower you natural test, but it doesn't completely shut your system down. I think you could get by with using the NHA stack fro PCT after a Winstrol cycle.

 

[aspire210]

i was also thinking that the suppressive compound binds harder to receptors but im pretty sure tren(super suppressive) binds very weakly to the AR. Im curious to find out exactly why trenbolone and nandrolone is so good at making recovery a real pain in the ass (no pun intended).

Tren binds very strongly to the AR, nandrolone doesn't however. I'm guessing you got them confused. They also raise prolactin levels which is why they are so suppressive.

 

[FX01]

Good thread.There is a similar topic over at DA
on this, I'm curious as well.

 

[dhuge67]

I shut down while on my first real PH cycle by about week 2 (Havoc). In my current PPlex + Epi cycle (75 mg a day total) I am still not shut down with less than a week of the cycle remaining.

I think experience also helps.

 

[Hyde12]

Mega TRN shut me down hard! I mean so hard that I never recovered no matter how many SERM's that I tried. I am on on TRT now. I think that people need to realize that your liver, BP, lipids aren't the only things that can take a beating. Permanent shutdown is always a possibility. Sometimes, If you play you pay.

 

[bound]

Cool. This is all what I figured, I'm loving this site for being able to ask these questions and not only get answers, but get intelligent discourse, too.:thumbsup:

 

[bound]

I think it is just important to employ strong ON cycle hormone control when using compounds that will have you shut down for a while.

What exactly do you mean by hormone control? Test boosters like HDX2, or something else?

 

[pudzian2]

I think it is just important to employ strong ON cycle hormone control when using compounds that will have you shut down for a while.

What exactly do you mean by hormone control? Test boosters like HDX2, or something else?

For instance, I am not running 16 weeks of Test E and EQ. Dosages vary during cycle, but not DOUBT is this cycle suppressive to the point that I am shut down early on. HOWEVER, I began using an AI (exemestane) early on to prevent estrogen sides, and also which in turn does it's part on the HPTA. I am also using HCG while on cycle. This keeps the boys running on mimicked LH. This way I am not atrophying and my testes are producing some test. Yes my system will need to reset and find it's equilibrium during PCT with the help of things like AI's SERMS, Test boosters etc.

I think ON cycle control and consciousness is as important as POST CYCLE control (PCT)

 

[dhuge67]

Is it ever appropriate to use Nolvadex while on-cycle? Would it hamper results?

 

[pistonpump]

Is it ever appropriate to use Nolvadex while on-cycle? Would it hamper results?

alot of guys like SERM while on cycle to keep gyno away but its a matter of preference and opinion. Nolvadex and some AIs like Adex lower IGF1 levels so in a sense it will hinder gains in that manner. Estrogen suppression with an AI will also hinder gains to a degree because estrogen actually has alot of muscle building benefiets.


BTW, Aspire310, thanks for clearing that up. Yea i was just going of the top of my head kinda got confused. The rise in prolactin has to be the cause of major recovery problems with nands and trens. Some guys actually get hypogonadism from their bodies producing too much prolactin, so it makes alot of sense.

 

[datBtrue]

Mega TRN shut me down hard! I mean so hard that I never recovered no matter how many SERM's that I tried. I am on on TRT now. I think that people need to realize that your liver, BP, lipids aren't the only things that can take a beating. Permanent shutdown is always a possibility. Sometimes, If you play you pay.

Man I'm sorry to hear that bro. For me Tren and Deca especially but also Mega TRN are off limits. I have a very tough time recovering from them.

In addition to the prolactin problem I think it also effects dopamine levels...estrogen comes into play and then you try to get the test levels back up, not to mention keeping an eye on SHBG...it is just a lot to have to try to balance back out.

For me IGF-1 really helped my recovery from all compounds but especially those troublesome ones. I'm curious did you ever try to use IGF-1 to get back to normal?

 

[datBtrue]

... Estrogen suppression with an AI will also hinder gains to a degree because estrogen actually has alot of muscle building benefiets.

Wonderful point you made here bro. That's why controling Estrogen only when needed is preferable to killing it from the start. I wish more people were as knowledgeable as you & pudz are...heck I wish I was as knowledgeable when I was your age.

 

[Hyde12]

Man I'm sorry to hear that bro. For me Tren and Deca especially but also Mega TRN are off limits. I have a very tough time recovering from them.

In addition to the prolactin problem I think it also effects dopamine levels...estrogen comes into play and then you try to get the test levels back up, not to mention keeping an eye on SHBG...it is just a lot to have to try to balance back out.

For me IGF-1 really helped my recovery from all compounds but especially those troublesome ones. I'm curious did you ever try to use IGF-1 to get back to normal?

No, I didn't. I should of though. The worst thing about this is that almost all doctors are clueless about Testosterone restart.

 

[pistonpump]

Wonderful point you made here bro. That's why controling Estrogen only when needed is preferable to killing it from the start. I wish more people were as knowledgeable as you & pudz are...heck I wish I was as knowledgeable when I was your age.

apprieciate it. how old are you btw? I must agree, i did my first run with igf1lr3 in pct and had a great recovery, it kept my strength and lean muscle gaining. A must in my book, provided its obtainable for a decent price. sent you a PM datBtrue.

 

[datBtrue]

how old are you btw?

I'd like to say 22 years old...but thats my fiancee's age. I am a young 41 looking forward to settling into family life.

 

[pudzian2]

I'd like to say 22 years old...but thats my fiancee's age. I am a young 41 looking forward to settling into family life.

thanks for the kind words man.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I'm very gyno prone, and I usually take 10mg of Tamoxifen E3D on cycle. Seems to help, and not hinder gains at all.

 

[pudzian2]

I had a poll a while ago about who preffered AI's vs SERMS while on for estro and gyno protection....seemed most people like AI's

 

[alainbballing]

Ok throwing some eform while on help or is that a little to strong? And if so what would u guys recommend?