Can I Overtrain on a Cycle?

[LouisBourbon]

Hey folks,

I'm on my third week of my first 10-week test-cyp cycle and I've been training pretty hard and loving it. I have a question though... can I over train while I'm on my cycle? I've been hitting the gym 5 or 6 days a week and splitting body parts up into three days, which I rotate with a day off after legs. Here's what that looks like:

Mon - Back/Tris
Tues - Chest/Bis
Wed - Legs/Shoulders
Thur - Day Off
Fri - Back/Tris
Sat - Chest/Bis
Sun - Legs/Shoulders
Mon - Day Off
Tues - Back/Tris etc...

I do 6-7 exercises for my large muscle group (Back, Chest, Legs) on each day and 3-4 exercises for my small muscle group (Tris, Bis, Shoulders). On an average day I spend about 90 minutes a day lifting. I also pick three days a week to do 30-45 minutes of low-impact cardio. My diet is a 40/40/20 split and at 225lbs I'm takin in 2600 calories a day. I'm an endomorph and I DON'T want to put on too much fat while I bulk.

So what's the problem... right? I've read a couple of posts in which people say that it's impossible to overtrain while on a cycle, but in the last week I've noticed that I run out of steam near the end of my workout... usually on legs/shoulders days. I've also noticed over the past three weeks that I stay steady or lose a bit of weight on the days I work out and gain weight (and visual muscle mass) on my day off. The overall trend is still towards putting on bulk, but I'm wondering if I'm hitting my muscles too hard and not giving them enough time to rebuild bigger and better. I'm also wondering if I'm taking in enough calories to support putting on lean muscle on the days I'm working out. I don't want to gain too much fat, but I also don't want to starve my growing muscles. What are your guys' thoughts on my situation?


XIV

 

[Mulletsoldier]

CNS and skeletal muscle system are not in the same.

 

[richirich_99]

I think you probably need to bump your calories up, try something like 3000 kcals/day. While on cycle, your body will use those calories much more effeciently than when you not on cycle.

 

[EasyEJL]

a 5 day split with one of the 5 being a day off would be better than the 4 day you have. yes you could be overtraining.

 

[gotripped]

i doubt that you are overtraining due to ur juice. you can work out harder on juice. it's just a fact. you recover faster. and one other thing... your calories are 2600????? you weigh 225 lbs?! ur basal metabolic rate is 2200 calories... i think you should up it to atleast 3000-3200 calories. that's a decent bulk.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Overtraining isn't just about muscles, that is what is being overlooked. You can tax your CNS without taxing your skeletal muscles. Steroids give your muscles increased ability to recover, but not your CNS. Keep that in mind.

 

[LouisBourbon]

i doubt that you are overtraining due to ur juice. you can work out harder on juice. it's just a fact. you recover faster. and one other thing... your calories are 2600????? you weigh 225 lbs?! ur basal metabolic rate is 2200 calories... i think you should up it to atleast 3000-3200 calories. that's a decent bulk.

Ok... thanks. Do you think I should drop that down a bit - say to 2600kcal - on my days off? Or should i just keep it at 3000 for the whole cycle?

XIV

 

[EctoPower]

Ok... thanks. Do you think I should drop that down a bit - say to 2600kcal - on my days off? Or should i just keep it at 3000 for the whole cycle?

XIV

I wouldn't recommend decreasing cals on days off. Remember, you aren't building muscle in the gym. You're breaking it down, whether you're on cycle or not. Muscle fibers are rebuilding in the hours and days after you tear them apart. If you want those muscle fibers to grow back bigger and stronger and if you want your body to build new muscle fibers to deal with the workload next time around, you need to FUEL UP! Keep your cals up, imo.

 

[LouisBourbon]

I wouldn't recommend decreasing cals on days off. Remember, you aren't building muscle in the gym. You're breaking it down, whether you're on cycle or not. Muscle fibers are rebuilding in the hours and days after you tear them apart. If you want those muscle fibers to grow back bigger and stronger and if you want your body to build new muscle fibers to deal with the workload next time around, you need to FUEL UP! Keep your cals up, imo.

Thanks man. That makes a lot of sense. I'm also taking two days off in a row as an experiment to see how my body reacts... isn't that what this is all about anyway. I'll hit the gym again on Friday, see how my body weight and lift weights look and let you guys know. Thanks for all the help.

XIV

 

[dawaro]

i doubt that you are overtraining due to ur juice. you can work out harder on juice. it's just a fact. you recover faster. and one other thing... your calories are 2600????? you weigh 225 lbs?! ur basal metabolic rate is 2200 calories... i think you should up it to atleast 3000-3200 calories. that's a decent bulk.

Depending on what calculator you are looking at you may be well below your needed calorie intake.
Since I do not know your age I just put in broad age ranges on the AST-Science calculator and came up with these numbers:
25yrs - 2925 cal/day
35yrs - 2880 cal/day
40yrs - 2835 cal/day
These numbers are based on your current weight and what AST feels is required to build muscle. Different calculations are going to produce different results but this will give you an idea of your requirements. I use this calculator to keep up with my intake and have had good results. So 2600 may be extremely low even off cycle.
Just to give you an idea of where you stand I am 165#s and just started a P-Plex cycle, my daily intake is 3000-3200 calories.
What I plan on doing is taking measurements, BF & weight, weekly and adjusting as needed from there.

Also keep in mind that most programs recommend keeping your work outs to less that an hour. You might want to look at a 5 day routine that works each body part on a differnet day, something like the Max-OT program. Just my thoughts...

 

[LouisBourbon]

Also keep in mind that most programs recommend keeping your work outs to less that an hour. You might want to look at a 5 day routine that works each body part on a differnet day, something like the Max-OT program. Just my thoughts...

There was just a really interesting article posted in the "Training" forum talking about where the "keep workouts under an hour" advice started and why it's really not backed by science or really even anecdotal evidence. It was really interesting and I recomend it to everyone. I'm also reading a lot about DC training (is this guy's screen name really DoggCrapp?) and I think I might give it a try for a while. What do you guys think about switching my routine mid-way through my cycle? Good idea? Bad idea?

As far as the the calories go... I agree. I'm 28, 6'2", 225lbs. Ten years ago when I started working out I was 17, 5'11", 330lbs and NONE of it was muscle. I guess I'm worried about adding too many calories. I'll go ahead and start eating 3k/day while still on the 40/40/20 split and see what happens.

XIV

 

[richirich_99]

There was just a really interesting article posted in the "Training" forum talking about where the "keep workouts under an hour" advice started and why it's really not backed by science or really even anecdotal evidence. It was really interesting and I recomend it to everyone. I'm also reading a lot about DC training (is this guy's screen name really DoggCrapp?) and I think I might give it a try for a while. What do you guys think about switching my routine mid-way through my cycle? Good idea? Bad idea?

As far as the the calories go... I agree. I'm 28, 6'2", 225lbs. Ten years ago when I started working out I was 17, 5'11", 330lbs and NONE of it was muscle. I guess I'm worried about adding too many calories. I'll go ahead and start eating 3k/day while still on the 40/40/20 split and see what happens.

XIV

I followed the DC training program for a while, and had huge strength gains, and put some mass on. I did this before i started with PH's and juice. I would stick with what you doing for training while on your cycle if your still getting gains, if your gains are slowing then it wouldnt hurt to try something new.

 

[thesinner]

Overtraining isn't just about muscles, that is what is being overlooked. You can tax your CNS without taxing your skeletal muscles. Steroids give your muscles increased ability to recover, but not your CNS. Keep that in mind.

Word. Even when you're NOT an dem 'bolics, the muscles recover much faster than the CNS.

 

[EasyEJL]

Whats a good CNS recovery mechanism, don't just say sleep. I'm largely CNS limited in my workouts it seems

 

[dawaro]

As far as the the calories go... I agree. I'm 28, 6'2", 225lbs. Ten years ago when I started working out I was 17, 5'11", 330lbs and NONE of it was muscle. I guess I'm worried about adding too many calories. I'll go ahead and start eating 3k/day while still on the 40/40/20 split and see what happens.

XIV

I would go 3500 cals at your size. If you are concerned about adding fat try taking bf measurements weekly that way you can make adjustments before things get out of hand. I made the mistake of cutting cals too short on my first cycle with the original Halodrol and the cycle only netted about an 8 pound gain.
What EasyEJL recommended to me to get my intake up on my current cycle is to buy the Waxy Maise Starch "Kwik Carbs" from NutraPlanet and mix it with EAS whey protein from Sam's Club ($28 for a 6lb bag). I am in the middle of the second week of a P-Plex cycle and I have gained about 4lbs and bf was down .8% as of today.

 

[EasyEJL]

glad to hear its working! that is a good quality healthy inexpensive way to add extra calories

 

[gotripped]

I would go 3500 cals at your size. If you are concerned about adding fat try taking bf measurements weekly that way you can make adjustments before things get out of hand. I made the mistake of cutting cals too short on my first cycle with the original Halodrol and the cycle only netted about an 8 pound gain.
What EasyEJL recommended to me to get my intake up on my current cycle is to buy the Waxy Maise Starch "Kwik Carbs" from NutraPlanet and mix it with EAS whey protein from Sam's Club ($28 for a 6lb bag). I am in the middle of the second week of a P-Plex cycle and I have gained about 4lbs and bf was down .8% as of today.

this is a good idea

 

[thesinner]

Whats a good CNS recovery mechanism, don't just say sleep. I'm largely CNS limited in my workouts it seems

Time?

 

[EasyEJL]

Time?

Ponysterone?

Stims help some with giving CNS a boost preworkout, but you pay for it postworkout. Do things like guggelesterones and other pituitary supportive stuff help? I haven'rt really noticed it

 

[thesinner]

Ponysterone?

Stims help some with giving CNS a boost preworkout, but you pay for it postworkout. Do things like guggelesterones and other pituitary supportive stuff help? I haven'rt really noticed it

Well, ponysterone does everything. If you know how to cycle it properly, it can even tie your shoes, jump start your car, and do your homework.

Guggulsterones (to my knowledge) don't effect the pituitary gland. Stims allow for an increase of excitory neurotransmitters (i.e. epinephrine, norepinephrine), which (if taken within a certain range) can optimize performance. Too much, however, will kill your performance.

The issue here, with CNS recovery is letting the actual neurons recover. Neurons form little chains (think Coca-Cola's "hands across america" campaign) that reach to your muscle, and tell it to contract. These littel fellas need some time to rebuild, repair, and allow your acetylcholine receptors to clear up. As far as I know, there's no supplement or drug that can help you with with this, you just gotta get some rest.