what went wrong,, PRO ADVICE PLEASE

[king1033]

ok let me lay it down in a nutshell im looking to go back on but my first cycle consisted of 800-1000mg of test a week for 12 weeks and first 8 weeks was 600mg deca d-bol last four weeks my starting stats were 175 6'1" 8-9%bf then at the end end was 200 8-9%bf stayed really lean pct was clomid 300,100,50 etc hcg 5000iu week 3 weeks and nolva, now after my cycle was done i crashed i mean severly went a wall with depression and 5 months later back to the 170's what the hell went wrong i think i went overboard for a first cycle i wanna go back on this time with prop so i can get off quicker please i want the pros in on this!

 

[sdmf45]

layout exactly how you did your PCT.

 

[king1033]

well ok 1st day of clomid for three weeks therapy 300mg 2nd day 250 etc etc the clomid protocall, 2 weeks after my last shot i was usuing test enth, i started 50mg of nolva right after my last shot and i did 5000iu of hcg a week split into 3 shots spread throughout the week somthing had to of went wrong, plus if i jump back on i might jump back on with a ph like halovar or somthing a little milder than ther roids cause i dont think i could handle a crash like that again if things god for bid went wrong again

 

[UnrealMachine]

Your first cycle was way too heavy, and you started out way too soon. 6'1 175 does not need to be cycling! No offense Bro but those were my starting stats (not 9% though). You cycled way too heavy, your test was dosed too high for starters, and you used deca which is very suppressive, and you threw in Dbol for the LAST 4 weeks, bro you were suppressed as hell and that's why you went through depression and lost all your gains.

do some natural lifting, get your stats back up, and then do a nice light cycle of 500mg test for 10-12 weeks, no need for deca and everything else!

Also wanted to add, Deca is supposed to be dosed 2mg/lb of bodyweight so for a 200 pound person = 400mg Deca/week, you should be doing 175x2 = 350mg a week, and you had 600!

 

[sdmf45]

well ok 1st day of clomid for three weeks therapy 300mg 2nd day 250 etc etc the clomid protocall, 2 weeks after my last shot i was usuing test enth, i started 50mg of nolva right after my last shot and i did 5000iu of hcg a week split into 3 shots spread throughout the week somthing had to of went wrong, plus if i jump back on i might jump back on with a ph like halovar or somthing a little milder than ther roids cause i dont think i could handle a crash like that again if things god for bid went wrong again

my first cycle was heavy similar to yours.............what it looks like happened is overstimulation during your pct.......you ran 2 serm's at high doses and then added hcg at a very high dose for a week and caused your natural production to become partially desensitized which can cause a crash.

if you go back on you should run test E but do it with a normal pct outline.

 

[king1033]

hey i realize what i did was dumb i was going by someone that him himself looked amazing but was doing 3 -4 grams of test a week he was 240 57 a big dude, anyways i wanna go again im looking at tren and prop will the pros out there lay it out for me in safe terms where i wont kill myself like last time,i will get my stats up before hand i was thinking about running halovar now (since i got it waiting 4 to 8 weeks then jumping back on. So in conclusion would it be ok do use prop but at like 500mg a week or since i already did 800 a week do i need to go higher?? Someone lay it down for me

 

[UnrealMachine]

hey i realize what i did was dumb i was going by someone that him himself looked amazing but was doing 3 -4 grams of test a week he was 240 57 a big dude, anyways i wanna go again im looking at tren and prop will the pros out there lay it out for me in safe terms where i wont kill myself like last time,i will get my stats up before hand i was thinking about running halovar now (since i got it waiting 4 to 8 weeks then jumping back on. So in conclusion would it be ok do use prop but at like 500mg a week or since i already did 800 a week do i need to go higher?? Someone lay it down for me

here is what I would do:

lift naturally back up to 200 pounds at least. Then do the starter cycle you should have had which is 10-12 weeks of TestE 500mg/week, jumpstart oral optional. Then if you really want to do the Tren/Prop cycle, I would look into something like this:
1-8 Tren Ace 50mg ed
1-10 Test Prop 75mg ed
+pct

Never run tren but that one always looked good in my head, anyway i think after your experience, you dont need tren yet, and you dont need to jump back "on" halovar just yet. Lift naturally back to where you were, it will be easy (muscle memory).

And check with us before you do anything, that guy cycling 4g of test a week started you out on a bad cycle with way too much stuff and too high of doses.

 

[pistonpump]

i think you rely on steroids way too much. I remember you posting almost the exact same thing a few months back with an oral cycle right? Dude you need to ditch the steroids and learn how to do it right without them or you will always be depressed and youll never know how to keep your gains post cycle.

 

[king1033]

i had a oral cycle in mind but i didnt start it it was just a idea, but im gonna work back up to 200 then hit up the gear its pointless i agree with you all to just jump right back in, i need to "rebuild the fortress":bruce1:

 

[king1033]

if you were me how would you of went doing the cycle i did (fixing what i did etc etc) just so i can get a MUCH better idea how its done, also by the way thanks for the advice and hearing me out

 

[milwood]

king-
I think you have been given some good feedback here, and I appreciate your questions. There are a million different opinions and ways to work out, cycle, etc. but you laid out your experience and asked for help. That is one of the great benefits of this board in terms of sharing experience and knowledge in order to gain in insight as well as muscle and strength. Keep it up!

 

[jminis]

That is an extremely high dose of HCG in a week. I would say that was and is your problem. I would not recommend you go back on anything until you get your system stabalized and read up a bit.

 

[king1033]

everyone learns from their mistakes i know i did!! so hcg was my downfall (depression, loss of gains etc etc)
i learn somthing new everyday about the sport and love to keep learning im at work right now waiting for my ****ing food i hit the gym hard today (leg day) and its been over a hour and a half and the guy is still a no show!!! im ****ing hungry:burg: :burg: izza:

 

[king1033]

im sooo going catabolic right now and it is all the delivery guys fault

 

[pudzian2]

learn first. Practice with theory and cross referenece and opinions from those with experience before "just trying it" in your body. I spent years just learning everything I could about steroids and the endocrine system, nutrition, physiology, bodybuilding etc. When I knew I was ready I tested the waters with a ph cycle. it went flawlessly. I then decided I was ready for real gear. I am in full confidence that I can tackle sides, and negative outcomes. I think you should definitely go see a doc, and tell him what you did. Rest and let your system get back together. Let it stay "stabilized" for a while while training and eating well. Then maybe you should consider a basic test only cycle. Tren will probably crash you again.

 

[datBtrue]

One problem was you started your SERM to early.

That 2 week guideline you read about is just an estimate and is based on the clearance rate of someone taking about 500mg per week.

The blood levels need to be closer to the level that the body naturally produces (aprx. 10mg) before a SERM can begin to have a real impact in getting the body to start producing testosterone again. You dosed at twice the rate those guidelines used and you didn't taper. So after 2 weeks you began PCT w/ blood levels still too high for the Clomid to be effective.

In essence the whole first week of Clomid was likely a waste as your body was not in a state conducive to restarting its own production until aprox. 3 weeks from the last shot. The end result is that you really were in a "working" PCT for 2 weeks only. No wonder you crashed!

Secondly a gram of test is a lot of test...a lot of factors that contribute to raised cortisol will be present but blunted. When you stop using a gram of test those cortisol raising factors will still be present and since you did nothing to control them (i.e. by tapering down at least to 500mg and/or taking anti-cortisols in PCT) you lost muscle. No surprize here bro.

If the length of your cycle is long or you use high dosages and heavy compounds your PCT needs to be long. How long? I go through 8 weeks of PCT tapered down of course...

In any case 2 weeks of PCT is far to short.