Neoborn's Epistane FAQ - Q and A baby!

[neoborn]

Neoborn's Epistane (Regular Cycle (RC) & Pulse Cycle (PC)) FAQ

This FAQ basically contains ( or will as time goes on ) all relative information to successfully running either a RC or PC of Epistane. This faq will contain the following:

* What is Epistane?
* Where can I get Epistane?
* Regular Cycle Information & Example
* Pulse Cycle Information & Example
* Problems & Answers
* Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?

Prologue:

I decided to write this FAQ to hopefully clear up alot of questions and give people some kind of a solid understanding of Epistane and the various ways of cycling it etc. I also want to be straight up and up front with everyone by telling them:

* I am no Dr. and anything said does not superceed your Dr.'s / Medical Practioner's advice!
* I am not all knowledgable, the answer to all your prayers, a guru or any kind of replacement for your deity!
* All information in this FAQ is subject to change / open discussion at any time.

With that said I / We ( Members, Users & Contributors ) will provide you with the best collection of information there currently is at this time for Epistane, and how to run a successful cycle!

What is Epistane?:

Epistane is Epitiostanol, a methlyated compound that is designed to be an Anti-Estrogenic / Aromatase Inhibitor. It is also more than just this, it also promotes increases in strength and lean body mass. It can produce some / all of the following:

* Incredible Strength Gains
* Dry, Lean Mass Gains
* Gynocomastia Protection
* Increased Libido
* Increased Training Intensity and Sense of Well-Being
* In Some, Reductions in Gynocomastia!

The chemical name for Epistane is: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol.

Here is a quick Epistane excert from Sinner's Designer Steroid / Prohormone Profiles thread:

Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
Innovators: IBE, RPN, Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-50mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.

IBE firmly believes that Epistane is the purest form of Epistanol available when comparing Epistane and the current clones available, just to get that lil firestarter out of the way. This is in no way to say that Havoc or any of the others do not work or produce good gains. We are not here to create contraversy but to help you attain your goals in peace!

For the record be very clear and understand that Epistane is a Steroid. Know what you are getting into and research alot BEFORE you buy or start your cycle. This will help you achieve your goals and have less potential problems. Smooth sailing is what we want baby!

Where can I get Epistane?

You can purchase Epistane from various places around the net, for instance just googling Epistane will provide you with enough hits to give you a place to purchase.

 

[neoborn]

Regular Cycle Information & Example:

A regular cycle will usually consist of taking the product in an everday fashion for a period of weeks.

Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - First day is 10mg's, second day and for the rest of Week1 is 20mg's. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended. From various posts / results from users, 40mg's seems to be the sweet spot.

Length Of Cycle: 4 Weeks to 6 Weeks - These lengths being the average cycle lengths. Some may go as high as 8 - 12 Weeks, this is depended on experience & side effects ( sides ) etc. 4 Weeks seems to be a safe length of time for good gains without any hardcore sides.

Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:

Liv52 | Cycle Support | Milk Thistle | NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine ) | Fish Oil / Omega 3's | Grape Seed Extract | Hawthorne Berry | Red Yeast Rice | Dandelion Root | Artichoke Extract | Multivitamin | ZMA | B-Complex | Saw Palmetto

If you would like to know what the best 'on' cycle support you can get, then look into:

Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations

Post Cycle Therapy: Post Cycle Therapy will vary for many but the basics seem to be - SERM, Cycle / Liver Support Supps & some kind of Non Hormonal Stack to get the HPTA restored / Testes up and running.

Example:

Toremifene: Days 1-4: 120mg | Week 2: 90mg | Week 3: 60mg | Week 4: 30mg (If needed)

or

Nolvadex: Week1: 40mg | Week2: 40mg | Week3: 20mg | Week4: 20mg

If you cannot get a SERM the next best option you have, is:

Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations - This was made to work along products like Epistane!

Non Hormonal Stacks:

HyperDrolX2 + MassFX

Activate + Rebound XT or Reloaded

Jungle Warfare +Restore + BAM ( Bad A$$ Mass )

Some people prefer one over the other for how they respond. Check the poll >>>here<<<

For more information on Post Cycle Therapy >>>Go Here<<< or >>>Here<<<

 

[neoborn]

Pulse Cycle Information & Example

Pulse cycles are different to RC because you are not taking the active / product everyday. The new standard protocol devised / refined by Dr.D basically says the following:

• Pulsing is a method of dosing a product designed to intentionally avoid potential long term side effects such as HPTA suppression and liver damage.
• Higher dosing but less frequency
• EOD dosing, so 3-4 times per week. ( EOD = Every Other Day )
• 2 days on / 2 days off
• 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off
• Doses preferably before 6pm
• Majority dosage taken Pre WO ( Pre Workout )
• High quality, high carb/calorie PW meal or shake
• Sufficient protein especially on the off days ( 1g to 1.5g per lb bodyweight )
• Off days good time to take a Anti-Cortisol supp or even just low dose DHEA
• Cortisol peaks in the morning and again in the mid afternoon take Anti-Cortisol doses at those times.
• Test booster on "off" days or ED ( Every Day )
• An aromatase inhibitor ( AI ) or test booster will punctuate the positive, hormonal "bounce back" effect of pulsing. Taken on "off" days.
• Be modest with liver protectants like Milk Thistle, take only on off days or not until 6hrs post dose on "on" days.

Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - The larger dose is always taken Pre WO. So for example if 10mg or 20mg this would be taken all Pre WO. Once you get into the 30mg doses you will split up the dose by taking 20mg Pre WO and 10mg PW. Same upscaling of doses occurs as weeks on cycle increase, also depending on your gains / results or sides. Most Pulse cycle users find 40mg to be the upper range sweet spot. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended.

Length Of Cycle: 6 - 8 Weeks - This is not to say you cannot pulse for 4 weeks or longer than 8 weeks etc.

Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:

As previously noted Milk Thistle, NAC or SAMe is only to be taken on "off" days or 6hrs post dose. If you are going to take HyperdrolX2 dose either 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed or on your "on" days before bed 2 - 4 caps. ED is recommended and should bring about some good bounce back effects.

If you would like to know what the best 'on' cycle support you can get, then look into:

Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations

Cycle Support | Milk Thistle | NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine ) | SAMe | Fish Oil / Omega 3's | Grape Seed Extract | Hawthorne Berry | Red Yeast Rice | Dandelion Root | Artichoke Extract | Multivitamin | ZMA | B-Complex | Saw Palmetto

Example of a 3x/wk pulse M,W,F:

Week-Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50
7 30-60
8 30-60

Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat, Sun, Wed, Thur:

Week-Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50

Post Cycle Therapy: Your Post Cycle Therapy will consist of a Non Hormonal Stack, Anticortisol and AI. Please feel free to mix and match as you so choose:

*Note* Having a SERM on hand if you can get one is ALWAYS highly recommended as you don't want to be in a position where you need one but don't have one. Emergency use, you know!

If you cannot get a SERM the next best option you have, is:

Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations - This was made to work along products like Epistane!

Non Hormonal Stacks:

HyperDrolX2 + MassFX

Activate + Rebound XT or Reloaded

Jungle Warfare +Restore + BAM ( Bad A$$ Mass )

Some people prefer one over the other for how they respond. Check the poll >>>here<<<

For more information on Pulsing >>>go here<<< and for results that people have had from pulsing >>>go here<<<

 

[neoborn]

Dosing Protocol For Both Pulse & Everyday Cycles

To obtain supraphysiologic hormonal changes, the ideal scenario would likely see you dosing the PH/PS/DeS at a time when your normal physiological test is already high. In most cases, this equals the morning. Dependent upon how high a dose you are going with, I know a lot of people that have success with a 3-dose protocol: 4:00am / 10:00am / 4:00pm, with the heaviest concentration in the morning.

In other words...you will add on to your overall dose by pushing a cap in the 1st dose - first, the second dose second, and third dose third.

So, lets say someone is following a 30/40/50/60 (completely illustrative and does NOT serve as a "recommendation" by me):

Your first week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 1 cap / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your second week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your third week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your fourth week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 2 caps


Remember that dosing will be highly dependent upon bodyweight so the aforementioned cycle is NOT illustrative of what people SHOULD use as this in some instances is a very high dose, however...this is the general progression that should give an example of how best to attain some (if any) benefit from the product or products like it. Keep in mind that your body's natural test production are highest in the morning and work to exploit this fact. Dosing said products before bed does NOT make a lot of sense in the "supplementation" sense.


You may want to review the thread on trans-resveratrol in this subforum and/or over at AM for more info on an intricate ingredient in the post-cycle support product you speak of.


D_

 

[neoborn]

Post Cycle Therapy Suggestion:

Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


5. Love your Liver!


Problems & Answers:

Currently I don't have a long list of problems / solutions so please feel free to add these to this thread or PM me and I will add them to this area. Please include the problem and solution to the problem that resolved the issue for you! Thanks.

Gyno:

Q: I am experiencing gyno or gyno symptoms on my "x" cycle, at "x" mg's a dose?

A: Depending on the dose you are currently taking a boost or upping the dose of Epistane might be needed to really kick in with it's SERM / Gyno reducing effects. Dr.D has seen guys dosing 20-30mg that only have marginal improvement, upped the dosage to 40mg and then seeing good improvement in this area.
_____________________________________________

Q: What is the best cycle method to reduce my gyno?

A: The pulse cycle is really meant for training and not really for Gyno reduction. Dr.D suggests an ED cycle for Gyno reduction. Also add a good quality AI during this cycle as well as E2 estrogen levels may rise on a SERM like Epistane.

_____________________________________________

Q: I am experiencing Gyno type problems on my current cycle should I just stop and go into post cycle therapy?

A: This would be dependant on how rampant the effects and how close you are to finishing your cycle. Some things that can be done to alleviate the problems are 1) 200mg Motrin 3 x daily 2) AI 2 x daily 3) Nolva 20mg day.

_____________________________________________

Q: I am not sure what AI's to use if I am prone or very sensitive to Gyno, what do you suggest?

A: Dr.D suggests that "Stay away from reversible AI's like Letro if you're gyno prone because they can rebound, only use the steroidals like exemestane, ATD, 6-Br, formestane, teslac, etc..".

_____________________________________________

Q:Where can I find other good gyno related information?

A: >>>Here<<<

Hairloss:

Q: I am experiencing hairloss on Epistane, what should I do?

A:

Genetic expression of MPB differs from person to person. There are many factors involved, and it's believed that DHT activity on the scalp's hair follicle receptors may be the primary culprit in hair loss. It definitely appears to be the case, as DHT inhibiting topicals and systemic treatments seem to have a positive effect for most.

If you're prone to MPB, and you flood your system with extrgenous androgens, chances are you WILL lose hair for this very reason. When those androgen levels are lowered, the hair should at least stop falling out if you're young enough. It seems that, as males age, the receptors build up increased sensitivity to androgenic alopecia (think about it - as guys get older their test levels decline and yet more hair falls out!). Regrowth will depend entirely on your genetics - if you have a lot of guys in your family that went bald early and you have the same hairline - the androgens may just kick off your MPB a few years early for you.


Your BEST bet is to prevent the hairloss altogether. Either a.)dont use hormones that can contribute to hair loss or b.)take the proper protective measures.

For a compound like Epistane, with no 5AR activity, this should be a topical general androgen blocker like 2% Spironolactone 2x/day along with Nizoral shampoo 1x ED. Hitting your scalp with the laser brush for 5-10minutes a day wouldnt hurt either, as it helps create optimal conditions for hair growth.

Do NOT use a compound like minoxidil unless you're fighting genetic MPB and plan to keep using it forever.

IMO, if you're worried about hairloss and you're already going bald start a serious hair loss prevention regimen asap. The sooner the better if you want to have any hopes of running hairloss free cycles and intend to keep the hair on your head as long as possible.

Q: Where can I find some good information to help me stop or slow my hairloss?

A: See this thread: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/21961-hair-loss-prevention.html

_____________________________________________

General:

Q: I have already completed a cycle of Epistane can I start another one right after?

A: The standard protocol for cycling is: Time between cycles = Cycle Time + post cycle therapy in weeks = break between cycles. For example if you were on cycle for 4 weeks + 4 weeks post cycle therapy then it will be 8 weeks ( or more preferably ) before you can start another cycle. Pulsing is a little different that you will add up your "On" days to figure out the equivalent "Off" time you will need.

Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?

Here are some resources to help you if you need more help than this thread can supply:

* IBE Reps - MMowry, PoopyPants, Neoborn ( update me if I have left anyone out )
* Threads of good quality info / help - Pulsing Results - How To Pulse - Search The Forums, Keyword "Epistane"
* The IBE Forums


If ANYONE has anything they would like to discuss or ANYTHING that they feel is worthy to add to this thread please do not fail to let me know in this thread / PM / Email etc.

 

[nelix]

Awesome awesome awesome Neoborn, you are constantly creating good treads.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to neoborn again.

 

[neoborn]

I had already created this but when they shut down the IBE forum area on here it all go by bye. Google rox for cached sites though

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[nelix]

I had already created this but when they shut down the IBE forum area on here it all go by bye. Google rox for cached sites though

Much Love,

Neoborn

I was clicking the link in your old sig wanting to read it for a while now, maybe you should create a little website your texts for safe keeping?

 

[BodyWizard]

brilliant, Neo - not just your FAQ, I mean, but it never occurred to me to google for my missing 'Tropin log. Happy now!

 

[hardestgainer]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Neoborn again"

 

[neoborn]

brilliant, Neo - not just your FAQ, I mean, but it never occurred to me to google for my missing 'Tropin log. Happy now!

Put it up again if you wouldn't mind, if you can I was gonna read that but never got around to it...yet!

Much Love,

NEoborn

 

[BodyWizard]

Put it up again if you wouldn't mind, if you can I was gonna read that but never got around to it...yet!

Pretty sure I can post all the original log stuff - don't know if/how I can re-post all the comments - think the GH/IGF forum would be appropriate, or should I put it under Cycles? Ideas welcome! :type:

 

[neoborn]

I personally would put it under IGF etc.

 

[Cordwood]

Would one see any potential problems that could occur from being in the middle of an 8 week pulse of epi while starting to conceive? I could see the process getting delayed if any shutdown occurred, but I'm more worried there could be some product quality issues if the deed gets done.

 

[Dr Packenwood]

Awesome. I missed it at the IBE forum.

Epistane has got to be the best compound I've ever taken. I plan on making it a staple in my cycles as long as its available.:clap2:

 

[CryingEmo]

Goddamn I love neoborn.

 

[neoborn]

Would one see any potential problems that could occur from being in the middle of an 8 week pulse of epi while starting to conceive? I could see the process getting delayed if any shutdown occurred, but I'm more worried there could be some product quality issues if the deed gets done.

Epistane has been known to increase LBM in toddlers and stronger bone structures! No not really

You should be fine, Epistane is mild and shutdown is minimal. Your 'boys' should be fine. I mean really do you think that after all the air we breath, chlorinated water and chemicals flowing from just about everything in your house and into you, that a short 8 week cycle is going to cause some genetic strangeness? I think not.

Strange things can happen no matter what, think happy thoughts for your baby.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[neoborn]

Goddamn I love neoborn.

Me too, it's cause I'm dead sexay!

 

[Irish480]

What kind of effect does epistane have on your cardio?

 

[ArnoldIsMyIdol]

How do the gains from this compare to something like superdrol?

 

[CryingEmo]

What kind of effect does epistane have on your cardio?

IMO it turned me into a cardio machine.

 

[drksun]

How do the gains from this compare to something like superdrol?

hahaha nice sig i think i had it first, but from what i read the gains wont be as much as superdrol, but the sides will be no where near superdrol. The logs/results ive looked at show a gain of about 10lb for a 4-5week cycle, and pulsing ive seen 8-10lb, here is the pulsing results thread.

 

[nightfly71]

I just started a pulse of 10 mg. epistane (oxodrol pro by ids) and 10 mg. of the original ergomax lmg by alri. I read somewhere where dr. dhad said stacking methyls was acceptable when pulsing.

I wonder if it'd be ok to raise the dose to 20 or 30 mg. for the epistane. With the ergomax lmg, I don't have enough left to up it. Any thoughts? I thought this would be a nice wet/dry combo.

 

[Irish480]

IMO it turned me into a cardio machine.

Does everyone else agree with this? It doesn't hurt your cardio?

 

[Dr Packenwood]

Does everyone else agree with this? It doesn't hurt your cardio?

I only do 10 minutes of cardio per day, but out in the gym, I feel unstoppable. I'm sure it would amp up your abilities to do cardio as well.

 

[Stavross]

vBulletin Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to neoborn again.

Great post Neo mate.izza:

 

[neoborn]

I just started a pulse of 10 mg. epistane (oxodrol pro by ids) and 10 mg. of the original ergomax lmg by alri. I read somewhere where dr. dhad said stacking methyls was acceptable when pulsing.

I wonder if it'd be ok to raise the dose to 20 or 30 mg. for the epistane. With the ergomax lmg, I don't have enough left to up it. Any thoughts? I thought this would be a nice wet/dry combo.

1. Oxodrol is not Epistane, Epistane is Epistane just to clear up any confusion. It would be a clone of some sort by your admission.

2. From what I understand the stress on the liver can be more from two different types of methyls as it has to breakdown two different compounds. There are two schools of thought on this A) The amount of methyls is what counts B) The two methyls will cause more stress because two different compounds.

3. Upping the dose - would it be ok, I'm not sure it depends on your background etc I have no background or information in relation to LMG, but I have seen people go as high as 90mg's ( not recommended ) with Epistane.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[neoborn]

Does everyone else agree with this? It doesn't hurt your cardio?

I am sure everyone isn't going to see your post in here but I have seen multiple posts say that Epistane will help your endurance and cardiovascular capacity while 'on'.

Make a poll in the Supplements / steroid area to get better feedback or even use the :gotsearch link:

Search > Advanced Search > Enter Search Terms > Change dropdown menu to "In Titles" and search or "Entire posts" and change results from "Threads" To "Posts"

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[Naseem]

hey neo juss got my 2 epi with my nporders! i couldnt find the exp date on the bottles both! so i am wondering if epi juss doesnt expire ever!

 

[neoborn]

I would say everything expires just depends on when. This is a very good question, I would guess at, at least two years unopened in a cool dry place.

I will investigate an answer for you.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[UNCfan1]

Neo what happened to the thread about using Epi during PCT? Can u dig up that info for me. I am having a hard time finding it. Thanks bro.

 

[FX01]

Neo,
Congrats for putting this up.

A question on Havoc.I know that most say that Epi and Havoc are the same, but I had some pretty bad sides from Havoc (It felt like a wet compound,drove my BP up, and gave me annoying headaches) D also seemed to think that Havoc
was a strong compound, it just sucks, because I gained about 12 lbs. in 3 weeks, even tapering it to 10mg. ed for the last week.
Do you think that Epi would give me a cleaner run next time around?

"Bye the way, there is a witch hunt going on across the pond,
and their chanting Neo, Epi questions!":food:

 

[neoborn]

Neo what happened to the thread about using Epi during post cycle therapy? Can u dig up that info for me. I am having a hard time finding it. Thanks bro.

Where was it?

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[neoborn]

Hello FX,

I would say that some users have reported better mood elevation with Epistane. I believe sides will be felt depending on your dosage / calories etc.

I would say you try Epistane out on your lab rab and keep us posted as I am sure you will be happy with the results.

Please let me know how they compare, as they both work but feel a little different from what I have heard back from users.

Much Love,

Neoborn

LOL at chanting.

Neo,
Congrats for putting this up.

A question on Havoc.I know that most say that Epi and Havoc are the same, but I had some pretty bad sides from Havoc (It felt like a wet compound,drove my BP up, and gave me annoying headaches) D also seemed to think that Havoc
was a strong compound, it just sucks, because I gained about 12 lbs. in 3 weeks, even tapering it to 10mg. ed for the last week.
Do you think that Epi would give me a cleaner run next time around?

"Bye the way, there is a witch hunt going on across the pond,
and their chanting Neo, Epi questions!":food:

 

[FX01]

Thanks Neo.
I have the perfect little guy lined up,
ya gotta love Tree frogs.:study:

 

[UNCfan1]

Where was it?

Much Love,

Neoborn

What was in the IBE section so I am guessing it was deleted for good huh?

 

[Naseem]

sure evry thing exipires! thanks neo, i am lookin forward for the ans.

 

[neoborn]

What was in the IBE section so I am guessing it was deleted for good huh?

The admins etc still have access to it I am sure, I don't believe it was deleted just access removed.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[drksun]

1. Oxodrol is not Epistane, Epistane is Epistane just to clear up any confusion. It would be a clone of some sort by your admission.

2. From what I understand the stress on the liver can be more from two different types of methyls as it has to breakdown two different compounds. There are two schools of thought on this A) The amount of methyls is what counts B) The two methyls will cause more stress because two different compounds.

3. Upping the dose - would it be ok, I'm not sure it depends on your background etc I have no background or information in relation to LMG, but I have seen people go as high as 90mg's ( not recommended ) with Epistane.

Much Love,

Neoborn

i think i read in dr.d's pulse thread that the "sweet spot" of an epi pule is 40mg, I'm assuming anything higher might even cause shutdown over time.

 

[neoborn]

i think i read in dr.d's pulse thread that the "sweet spot" of an epi pule is 40mg, I'm assuming anything higher might even cause shutdown over time.

You assume correctly. Even 40mg could cause shutdown because it's all relative to how sensitive you are. You are a better judge of that than myself.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[Naseem]

wassup neo! any new about EPI exp date?

 

[CROWLER]

Regular Cycle Information & Example:

A regular cycle will usually consist of taking the product in an everday fashion for a period of weeks.

Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - First day is 10mg's, second day and for the rest of Week1 is 20mg's. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended. From various posts / results from users, 40mg's seems to be the sweet spot.

Length Of Cycle: 4 Weeks to 6 Weeks - These lengths being the average cycle lengths. Some may go as high as 8 - 12 Weeks, this is depended on experience & side effects ( sides ) etc. 4 Weeks seems to be a safe length of time for good gains without any hardcore sides.

Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:

Liv52 | Cycle Support | Milk Thistle | NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine ) | Fish Oil / Omega 3's | Grape Seed Extract | Hawthorne Berry | Red Yeast Rice | Dandelion Root | Artichoke Extract | Multivitamin | ZMA | B-Complex | Saw Palmetto

If you would like to know what the best 'on' cycle support you can get, then look into:

Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations

Post Cycle Therapy: Post Cycle Therapy will vary for many but the basics seem to be - SERM, Cycle / Liver Support Supps & some kind of Non Hormonal Stack to get the HPTA restored / Testes up and running.

Example:

Toremifene: Days 1-4: 120mg | Week 2: 90mg | Week 3: 60mg | Week 4: 30mg (If needed)

or

Nolvadex: Week1: 40mg | Week2: 40mg | Week3: 20mg | Week4: 20mg

If you cannot get a SERM the next best option you have, is:

Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations - This was made to work along products like Epistane!

Non Hormonal Stacks:

HyperDrolX2 + MassFX

Activate + Rebound XT or Reloaded

Jungle Warfare +Restore + BAM ( Bad A$$ Mass )

Some people prefer one over the other for how they respond. Check the poll >>>here<<<

For more information on Post Cycle Therapy >>>Go Here<<< or >>>Here<<<

NICE JOB!

I had a few people contact me saying they are running their Cycle Support and POST Cycle Support just like Neoborn had posted about and it was working PERFECTLY!

I was curious so I searched and searched and found the thread they were talking about. :head:

If you would like to know what the best 'on' cycle support you can get, then look into:

Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations



If you cannot get a SERM the next best option you have, is:

Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations - This was made to work along products like Epistane!


VERY nice and people are getting great results following your advice.


CROWLER

 

[neoborn]

wassup neo! any new about EPI exp date?

Sorry I have no information on this as we currently don't know. The product has not been out long enough for a good answer to this question. I am sure a chem whiz would be able to better break this down for you "because the fluxochem bond from the oojamaflip changes positions with the isotomer thingy and makes it last a gazillion years without freezing" etc.



I would say if you take good care of the product i.e. remove air, vacuum seal, and cool dry place easy couple years at a guess.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[neoborn]

Stuff's

CROWLER

Crowler, you and your company have done a great job of listening to bodybuilders and bringing cutting edge supps. Much respect to you and yours!

If it works, s'all you need to know, keeping it real with real people using real products. :thumbsup: Keep up the great job!

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[liddodragon]

Neoborn would just liv52 or the one of the other cycle supports you mentioned be good enough on the "off" days of a pulse of EPI?

 

[neoborn]

The whole point of 'off' days from what I have read / understand is the bounce back feature i.e. hormonal bounce back to not have you shutdown.

So what you want for a bounce back is:

1. AI to stop estrogen flooding

2. Test booster / Test free'r to allow test to flow freely without being bound to um SBHG I think

3. Liver supps i.e. Cycle Support (best), SAMe, NAC or yes Liv52



Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[liddodragon]

Nice, much appreciated neoborn. Would you consider a natural test booster such as Tribilius to be a good one?

 

[drksun]

Nice, much appreciated neoborn. Would you consider a natural test booster such as Tribilius to be a good one?

you tell me......

The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

PMID: 15994038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players.
Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM.

School of Exercise Science and Sport Management, Southern Cross University Lismore, New South Wales, Australia. [email protected]

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.

PMID: 17530942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[liddodragon]

Thanks drksun. Any recommendations on a test booster and AI on "off" days of a pulse cycle?

 

[drksun]

The whole point of 'off' days from what I have read / understand is the bounce back feature i.e. hormonal bounce back to not have you shutdown.

So what you want for a bounce back is:

1. AI to stop estrogen flooding

2. Test booster / Test free'r to allow test to flow freely without being bound to um SBHG I think

3. Liver supps i.e. Cycle Support (best), SAMe, NAC or yes Liv52



Much Love,

Neoborn

don't forget the anti-cortisol..

Off days are also a good time to take a cortisol antagonist or even just low dose DHEA (25-50 mg) if you're a slow healer or hard gainer especially. Cortisol peaks in the morning and again in the mid afternoon so dose at those 2 times minimum.