This FAQ basically contains ( or will as time goes on ) all relative information to successfully running either a RC or PC of Epistane. This faq will contain the following:
* What is Epistane?
* Where can I get Epistane?
* Regular Cycle Information & Example
* Pulse Cycle Information & Example
* Problems & Answers
* Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?
Prologue:
I decided to write this FAQ to hopefully clear up alot of questions and give people some kind of a solid understanding of Epistane and the various ways of cycling it etc. I also want to be straight up and up front with everyone by telling them:
* I am no Dr. and anything said does not superceed your Dr.'s / Medical Practioner's advice!
* I am not all knowledgable, the answer to all your prayers, a guru or any kind of replacement for your deity!
* All information in this FAQ is subject to change / open discussion at any time.
With that said I / We ( Members, Users & Contributors ) will provide you with the best collection of information there currently is at this time for Epistane, and how to run a successful cycle!
What is Epistane?:
Epistane is Epitiostanol, a methlyated compound that is designed to be an Anti-Estrogenic / Aromatase Inhibitor. It is also more than just this, it also promotes increases in strength and lean body mass. It can produce some / all of the following:
* Incredible Strength Gains
* Dry, Lean Mass Gains
* Gynocomastia Protection
* Increased Libido
* Increased Training Intensity and Sense of Well-Being
* In Some, Reductions in Gynocomastia!
The chemical name for Epistane is: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol.
Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
Innovators: IBE, RPN, Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-50mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.
IBE firmly believes that Epistane is the purest form of Epistanol available when comparing Epistane and the current clones available, just to get that lil firestarter out of the way. This is in no way to say that Havoc or any of the others do not work or produce good gains. We are not here to create contraversy but to help you attain your goals in peace!
For the record be very clear and understand that Epistane is a Steroid. Know what you are getting into and research alot BEFORE you buy or start your cycle. This will help you achieve your goals and have less potential problems. Smooth sailing is what we want baby!
Where can I get Epistane?
You can purchase Epistane from various places around the net, for instance just googling Epistane will provide you with enough hits to give you a place to purchase.
A regular cycle will usually consist of taking the product in an everday fashion for a period of weeks.
Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - First day is 10mg's, second day and for the rest of Week1 is 20mg's. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended. From various posts / results from users, 40mg's seems to be the sweet spot.
Length Of Cycle: 4 Weeks to 6 Weeks - These lengths being the average cycle lengths. Some may go as high as 8 - 12 Weeks, this is depended on experience & side effects ( sides ) etc. 4 Weeks seems to be a safe length of time for good gains without any hardcore sides.
Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:
Post Cycle Therapy: Post Cycle Therapy will vary for many but the basics seem to be - SERM, Cycle / Liver Support Supps & some kind of Non Hormonal Stack to get the HPTA restored / Testes up and running.
Pulse cycles are different to RC because you are not taking the active / product everyday. The new standard protocol devised / refined by Dr.D basically says the following:
Pulsing is a method of dosing a product designed to intentionally avoid potential long term side effects such as HPTA suppression and liver damage.
Higher dosing but less frequency
EOD dosing, so 3-4 times per week. ( EOD = Every Other Day )
2 days on / 2 days off
2 weeks on / 2 weeks off
Doses preferably before 6pm
Majority dosage taken Pre WO ( Pre Workout )
High quality, high carb/calorie PW meal or shake
Sufficient protein especially on the off days ( 1g to 1.5g per lb bodyweight )
Off days good time to take a Anti-Cortisol supp or even just low dose DHEA
Cortisol peaks in the morning and again in the mid afternoon take Anti-Cortisol doses at those times.
Test booster on "off" days or ED ( Every Day )
An aromatase inhibitor ( AI ) or test booster will punctuate the positive, hormonal "bounce back" effect of pulsing. Taken on "off" days.
Be modest with liver protectants like Milk Thistle, take only on off days or not until 6hrs post dose on "on" days.
Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - The larger dose is always taken Pre WO. So for example if 10mg or 20mg this would be taken all Pre WO. Once you get into the 30mg doses you will split up the dose by taking 20mg Pre WO and 10mg PW. Same upscaling of doses occurs as weeks on cycle increase, also depending on your gains / results or sides. Most Pulse cycle users find 40mg to be the upper range sweet spot. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended.
Length Of Cycle: 6 - 8 Weeks - This is not to say you cannot pulse for 4 weeks or longer than 8 weeks etc.
Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:
As previously noted Milk Thistle, NAC or SAMe is only to be taken on "off" days or 6hrs post dose. If you are going to take HyperdrolX2 dose either 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed or on your "on" days before bed 2 - 4 caps. ED is recommended and should bring about some good bounce back effects.
If you would like to know what the best 'on' cycle support you can get, then look into:
Post Cycle Therapy: Your Post Cycle Therapy will consist of a Non Hormonal Stack, Anticortisol and AI. Please feel free to mix and match as you so choose:
*Note*Having a SERM on hand if you can get one is ALWAYS highly recommended as you don't want to be in a position where you need one but don't have one. Emergency use, you know!
If you cannot get a SERM the next best option you have, is:
To obtain supraphysiologic hormonal changes, the ideal scenario would likely see you dosing the PH/PS/DeS at a time when your normal physiological test is already high. In most cases, this equals the morning. Dependent upon how high a dose you are going with, I know a lot of people that have success with a 3-dose protocol: 4:00am / 10:00am / 4:00pm, with the heaviest concentration in the morning.
In other words...you will add on to your overall dose by pushing a cap in the 1st dose - first, the second dose second, and third dose third.
So, lets say someone is following a 30/40/50/60 (completely illustrative and does NOT serve as a "recommendation" by me):
Your first week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 1 cap / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap
Your second week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap
Your third week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 1 cap
Your fourth week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 2 caps
Remember that dosing will be highly dependent upon bodyweight so the aforementioned cycle is NOT illustrative of what people SHOULD use as this in some instances is a very high dose, however...this is the general progression that should give an example of how best to attain some (if any) benefit from the product or products like it. Keep in mind that your body's natural test production are highest in the morning and work to exploit this fact. Dosing said products before bed does NOT make a lot of sense in the "supplementation" sense.
You may want to review the thread on trans-resveratrol in this subforum and/or over at AM for more info on an intricate ingredient in the post-cycle support product you speak of.
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:
Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
Currently I don't have a long list of problems / solutions so please feel free to add these to this thread or PM me and I will add them to this area. Please include the problem and solution to the problem that resolved the issue for you! Thanks.
Gyno:
Q: I am experiencing gyno or gyno symptoms on my "x" cycle, at "x" mg's a dose?
A: Depending on the dose you are currently taking a boost or upping the dose of Epistane might be needed to really kick in with it's SERM / Gyno reducing effects. Dr.D has seen guys dosing 20-30mg that only have marginal improvement, upped the dosage to 40mg and then seeing good improvement in this area. ______________________________ _______________
Q: What is the best cycle method to reduce my gyno?
A: The pulse cycle is really meant for training and not really for Gyno reduction. Dr.D suggests an ED cycle for Gyno reduction. Also add a good quality AI during this cycle as well as E2 estrogen levels may rise on a SERM like Epistane.
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Q: I am experiencing Gyno type problems on my current cycle should I just stop and go into post cycle therapy?
A: This would be dependant on how rampant the effects and how close you are to finishing your cycle. Some things that can be done to alleviate the problems are 1) 200mg Motrin 3 x daily 2) AI 2 x daily 3) Nolva 20mg day.
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Q: I am not sure what AI's to use if I am prone or very sensitive to Gyno, what do you suggest?
A: Dr.D suggests that "Stay away from reversible AI's like Letro if you're gyno prone because they can rebound, only use the steroidals like exemestane, ATD, 6-Br, formestane, teslac, etc..".
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Q:Where can I find other good gyno related information?
Q: I am experiencing hairloss on Epistane, what should I do?
A:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by BigVrunga
Genetic expression of MPB differs from person to person. There are many factors involved, and it's believed that DHT activity on the scalp's hair follicle receptors may be the primary culprit in hair loss. It definitely appears to be the case, as DHT inhibiting topicals and systemic treatments seem to have a positive effect for most.
If you're prone to MPB, and you flood your system with extrgenous androgens, chances are you WILL lose hair for this very reason. When those androgen levels are lowered, the hair should at least stop falling out if you're young enough. It seems that, as males age, the receptors build up increased sensitivity to androgenic alopecia (think about it - as guys get older their test levels decline and yet more hair falls out!). Regrowth will depend entirely on your genetics - if you have a lot of guys in your family that went bald early and you have the same hairline - the androgens may just kick off your MPB a few years early for you.
Your BEST bet is to prevent the hairloss altogether. Either a.)dont use hormones that can contribute to hair loss or b.)take the proper protective measures.
For a compound like Epistane, with no 5AR activity, this should be a topical general androgen blocker like 2% Spironolactone 2x/day along with Nizoral shampoo 1x ED. Hitting your scalp with the laser brush for 5-10minutes a day wouldnt hurt either, as it helps create optimal conditions for hair growth.
Do NOT use a compound like minoxidil unless you're fighting genetic MPB and plan to keep using it forever.
IMO, if you're worried about hairloss and you're already going bald start a serious hair loss prevention regimen asap. The sooner the better if you want to have any hopes of running hairloss free cycles and intend to keep the hair on your head as long as possible.
Q: Where can I find some good information to help me stop or slow my hairloss?
Q: I have already completed a cycle of Epistane can I start another one right after?
A: The standard protocol for cycling is: Time between cycles = Cycle Time + post cycle therapy in weeks = break between cycles. For example if you were on cycle for 4 weeks + 4 weeks post cycle therapy then it will be 8 weeks ( or more preferably ) before you can start another cycle. Pulsing is a little different that you will add up your "On" days to figure out the equivalent "Off" time you will need.
Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?
Here are some resources to help you if you need more help than this thread can supply:
If ANYONE has anything they would like to discuss or ANYTHING that they feel is worthy to add to this thread please do not fail to let me know in this thread / PM / Email etc.
Put it up again if you wouldn't mind, if you can I was gonna read that but never got around to it...yet!
Pretty sure I can post all the original log stuff - don't know if/how I can re-post all the comments - think the GH/IGF forum would be appropriate, or should I put it under Cycles? Ideas welcome!
Would one see any potential problems that could occur from being in the middle of an 8 week pulse of epi while starting to conceive? I could see the process getting delayed if any shutdown occurred, but I'm more worried there could be some product quality issues if the deed gets done.
Would one see any potential problems that could occur from being in the middle of an 8 week pulse of epi while starting to conceive? I could see the process getting delayed if any shutdown occurred, but I'm more worried there could be some product quality issues if the deed gets done.
Epistane has been known to increase LBM in toddlers and stronger bone structures! No not really
You should be fine, Epistane is mild and shutdown is minimal. Your 'boys' should be fine. I mean really do you think that after all the air we breath, chlorinated water and chemicals flowing from just about everything in your house and into you, that a short 8 week cycle is going to cause some genetic strangeness? I think not.
Strange things can happen no matter what, think happy thoughts for your baby.
