Fat guys and Roids
- 10-15-2007, 03:18 PM
Fat guys and Roids
The question i'm about to pose is purely academic so no flaming necessary as i would never advise this to anyone myself.
I've been wondering about this for a long time. What would happen if you took someone who was overweight like 23-25% bf, was not a regular weight-lifter, and had them do a cycle of of something like equipoise for 16 weeks or so while working out and dieting? What would the effect be on the bodies tissues, specifically the excess fat? Would the extra weight cause a significantly higher incidence in aromatization vs someone who was trim?
How would the steroid affect that person? Would they make more progress over a 16 week period with the aid of AAS than if they did diet and exercise alone?
The question really is whether anabolic steroids can help someone who is overweight but still athletic and active to more quickly attain their goals and recomp the body? Obviously the ideal should be that they get their weight in check first then get their lifting and nutrition habits in place before using but this is purely academic.
- 10-15-2007, 08:58 PM
fat guys on roids look exactly like....fat guys on roids. there are a few at my gym..they somehow think their strong as hell cuz they bench 300 and weigh a lil more...but for your question anabolics do help a good amount and allow people to shed fat while making muscle catabolism non-existent...it also depends on the type of anabolic used, a substance like deca wouldnt be very apropriate because of the water and weight gain but a little test prop with an aromatase inhibitor should allow a "fat" person to recomp easier with a sound diet and cardio program of course...but still they are better off losing most of the weight naturally especially if they are at 25 % bf
10-16-2007, 01:15 AM
You need to get your diet and training down before touching anything.. SERIOUSLY.
Also, the more fat you have, the more aromatase you will have... AKA.. your testosterone will turn into estrogen at an alarming rate. Letrozole or Arimidex HAVE to be run if you do use testosterone.
Have you had bloodwork? This is very important, esp if you wana use any drugs to help lose weight. You may even have an underlying issue, such as hypothyroidism. (Most doctors misdiagnose this, and don't even know the new accepted endo range!!)
HGH may be worth looking into. I know that fat tissue can create igf-1 when HGH rises.. Might help.
10-16-2007, 05:22 AM
just reminded me how my "bodyfat" scales say i have 34.5% BF, yet I can see my abs and can bearly pinch an ounce....
At 206LBS I think i may need to take my scales back.....
Also apparently, I am always dehydrated at 30% water hydration.... hehe
To answer your question I would think a higher androgenic compound mixed with a thermal fat burner would be a nice mix to reduce some fat, but in reality cutting/dieting prior to any cycle at that % Bf is definately recommended.
10-16-2007, 07:26 AM
i agree... they would definitely help in the sense of avoiding a catabolic state, but at that bf , catabolism is the least of the worries
10-16-2007, 07:34 AM
Maybe its just me, but it looks like most powerlifters are in that sort of bodyfat range? and they juice...
10-16-2007, 11:02 PM
10-16-2007, 11:06 PM
I think the bodyfat level isn't very relevant to what value steroids would have, given an individual eating maintenance + x calories. Basically the 200lb person with 25% bodyfat has 150lbs of LBM. taking a mild something that will help them gain 6lbs over a 4 week period will raise their overall fat burning weight, and if calories are close enough to maintenance that scale weight stays the same, that person will end the 4 weeks at 22% bf. if they lost 6lbs of fat thru primarily dieting, their % would not be much better, but their overall base metabolic rate would be slower, making it harder to loose more in the future.
10-16-2007, 11:06 PM
10-16-2007, 11:10 PM
well you need to ask yourself the question.....are you a body builder,or a power lifter??............I am a body builder and dont try to max out every workout....i use moderate weights high reps.....If your goal is to powerlift then all the extra fat might help?..........personally who cares HOW strong you are unless your getting paid to lift huge weight....it's just bad for your body and joints!!........to build muscle you need to reach failure!! on every set...!! drop sets are also a great thing.
The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
10-16-2007, 11:11 PM
10-16-2007, 11:13 PM
10-16-2007, 11:26 PM
10-16-2007, 11:28 PM
10-16-2007, 11:47 PM
there is actually a new M&M article that addresses this somewhat. It gets pretty technical with terms and mechanisms of action.
basically states that there is evidence that test and possibly other androgens are lipolytic and anti-adipogenic.
check it out boys
10-17-2007, 12:29 AM
10-17-2007, 12:41 AM
10-17-2007, 03:58 AM
haha this thread took on a funny new path i didn't expect.
The point i was trying to drive at has somewhat been lost here save a few comments. The question is do steroids help you lose body fat percentage and recomp faster than a traditional diet and workout program.
My theory is that given the added incentive to workout hard while juicing, the fat person would be able to go longer and harder in the gym in both cardio and resistance training, assume you could find the right substace to minimize pumps, and because his body is in an anti-catabolic state, the weight he is losing from dieting would not be muscle and therefore his efforts over the course of the steroid cycle would give better results (muscle retention/increase + weight loss) than if he simply dieted and excersized alone....
any validity to this theory?
10-17-2007, 04:28 AM
Some....i mean depending on the BF percentage the average overweight person would be at more rish of High BP or Cholestrol problems prior and during a cycle.....
As for the benefits, I would think that there are far better ways to reduce BF than while juicing. Sure and androgenic compound would give them the edge, but at that BF percentage eating low cabs and high protein (dieting) will still yeild great muscle gains.
If anything, the added muscle under the fat would make them appear to be getting "fatter" rather than thinner, and they would more than likely loose all of the muscle gains trying to cut away all that fat after the cycle....
wow....all that at 3.30 am..
10-17-2007, 04:33 AM
10-17-2007, 05:49 AM
but the longer on the more receptor sites = greater uptake = better response. So with a longer time on better results would be acheived..ahm thinking.
I'm guessing this is why you should really max out your potential first before getting into any of that stuff.
10-17-2007, 06:04 AM
I think actually the point of his question was whether it would aid in fat loss, and to some degree 1-test or something highly androgenic would. Im not sure the exact science behind it so im not going to give out false advise, but i belive it has something to do with the way the body uses its calories.
Bah! im too sleep for this.If someone could explain why or why this wouldnt work i.e the science behind it that would be great.
10-17-2007, 11:42 AM
guys, check out the article I posted above. It says YES, there is evidence that the juice will help you burn off fat, as it has both llipolytic and anti-adipogenic mechanisms. It goes through all the science.
Now, whether it is the right way to go about it, its a whole nother debate.
10-17-2007, 11:57 AM
10-17-2007, 12:12 PM
i agree that there are very few that will actually reduce bf themselves.. cutting with steroids for the most part is done to maintain the lean muscle mass that you already have, not aid in bf reduction. i dont agree with an obese person using steroids to trim bodyfat and not changing any other factors... the benefits of them alone would not be worth it in my opinion
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