Need ProHormone Help, Please. Epistane.

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    Need ProHormone Help, Please. Epistane.


    Hello,

    I know this is the steroid section, but the majority of the discussions on Epistane appear to be here and I need some help.

    I have a log going on my cycle with epistane on another board.

    I have been on for 9 days and I feel really odd. I don't know if this is normal or not.

    Either way, I'm strongly leaning toward stopping my cycle right now. I feel really really strange... I'm not able to focus well.... no real positive effects yet. I'll post daily log on here right now so people can get a feel for how much I've taken and what I should do next...

    My first thought is to quit the cycle right now... I'd need some advice on what to do after that. Since I'm only 9 days in, would Novadex XT be enough?

    I would consider pulsing maybe also, but I feel so crappy I don't think I want to do that.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    I'll begin posting the log immediatly from Day 1 - Day 8 right now.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Started my first cycle of Epistane yesterday and I decided to try to log this.

    Goal is lean muscle growth that will hopefully lead to some fat loss.

    Beginning weight: 212lbs

    I'll log the general affects on my body. I won't alter my workouts or diet outside of what I would normally do off-cycle to get as accurate of an account of the effects as possible.

    I will be on a 30 day cycle that will look like this:

    Days 1-3 10
    Days 4-9 20
    Days 10-18 30
    Days 19-30 40


    The additional supplements I am taking include:

    Whey
    AI Cycle Support
    Taurine
    Potassium
    Multi
    Fish Oil
    Flax
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    Yesterday:

    Took my first dose about an hour before my morning workout.

    My body was wrecked anyway from some football over the weekend so the strength was shot.

    Throughout the day, I felt some hot flashes and was abnormally thirsty. Unsure if this is a result of this supplement.

    I've heard it takes 7-10 days to begin feeling it. More to come.
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    Day 2

    Second dose. Continued with some odd hot flashes.
    Libido may be raised?

    Weighed in at 211
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    Day 3

    Workout as far as weights and reps was all normal. Hot flashes are subsiding although I had one. Not anticipating too many changes for a few days as my dose is just ramping up. I look puffier than I anticpated I would... sort of like what creatine does to me.

    Weight 211
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    Day 4

    Increased dose to 20. Felt lethargic throughout the day. No noticiable strength gains. No visible changes.

    Weight 211
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    Day 5

    Had one of the weakest workouts in months. Felt incredibly tired and "dream-like" all day. Couldn't even get myself onto the elliptical. I think this stuff is affecting me strangely.

    Weight 211
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    Day 6

    Still on a dose of 20. Felt a lot more "on" yesterday. Both hamstrings cramped up in the night and felt tight, like on the verge of cramping the rest of the day.

    During my workout it sort of like I could keep going on reps where I would have quit before... hard to explain... not that they went up any easier - just that I could do more of them. The back felt particularly different. On pullups, I went higher than I normally could and did 2 more than usual.

    Weight was down? 209
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    Additional Information

    As I think about it - for anyone who hasn't tried the AI Cycle Support, the rumors are true. It tastes like hell.

    Best advice I can give is add 1/4 tsp. of cinnamon to your protein drink... sort of masks the sh**y flavor... but not completely.



    FYI on the workouts:
    I'm keeping everything pretty much the same so I can gauge the effectiveness of the supplement but here are my general rules.

    I work to failure on every set.
    I work body parts in different orders each day.
    Workouts are in the mornings.

    A typical workout week would include:

    4 Times Per Week:

    Back and Shoulders
    Pullups
    Lat Pull Downs
    Rows
    Upright Rows
    Military Press
    Bent Over Dumbbell Rows
    Shrugs

    Chest
    Pushups
    Incline Press
    Flies
    Dips


    Arms
    Straight Bar Curls
    Iso Dumbbell Curls
    Dumbbell Skull Crushers
    Single Arm Kickbacks

    Five Times Per Week:

    Abs
    Weighted Crunches
    Leg Lifts




    One Time Per Week
    Legs:
    Weighted Lunges Forward and Back
    Calf Raises
    Leg Curls
    Leg Extensions


    Same Day Dead Lifts
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    Day 7

    Well now is about the time people told me they felt it kicking in, but I can't say either way with certainty. Eager to see how the next few days go when I jump to 30.

    Here are the definites:
    Lethargy is still an issue.
    Calf pumps are a reality, but let's call them what they really are... "cramps".
    Libido is up.

    Yesterday's workout was really good, but my legs were so tight I dreaded doing cardio. Still completed 22 minutes on the elliptical but much slower than usual.

    I'm in this for the look and right now, I'm not happy with my chest... it looks a little worse than it did pre-cycle - less upper chest and more lower chest??? Makes me worry this is causing gyno? If my nipples start getting puffy, I'm quitting the cycle right away.

    I haven't seen enough positive effects to push through that nightmare if it happens. And if I'm supposed to be gaining muscle, I'm not sure it's happening...

    Weight 211
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    Day 8

    Workout was fine, but not exceptional.

    Not digging this stuff as of today. Felt woozy all day. Sort of a drunk, tired... Very strange. I'm on the edge of quitting the cycle.

    It seemed like I was hearing in mono and that everything was coming from in back of me... I know - Like I said, I think it's affecting me strangely.

    Very lethargic. Thoughts are not as clear as usual. I was expecting some mental sharpness... not the case.

    I look worse than I did pre-cycle... I think it's because I'm retaining a ton of water... probably explains why my chest looks so bad.

    If someone were to ask as of today if I'd do it again, I'd say no. For the minor strength gains so far, I'd just recommend creatine... cheaper and probably safer with no crazy-woozy effects.

    But I'll keep going for a bit b/c I'm right on the cusp of when most people have described the positive effects happening.

    I'm going to start taking the dose at night around dinner to see if it helps anything.

    No weight gains despite the crazy water retention

    Weight 210
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    That's all I've logged so far... at this point, I welcome all advice on my next move.

    Thanks again in advance!
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    Is this your first PH/PS cycle?

    What is your PCT set up?

    Are you taking any support supplements?
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    Yes, first ever cycle.

    Support supp's are:

    Whey
    AI Cycle Support
    Taurine
    Potassium
    Multi
    Fish Oil
    Flax


    Clomid was my plan for PCT after running a cycle straight through, although I had originally considered running a pulse cycle so I was just going to go with the Novedex XT and I have that ready to go if need be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fattytca View Post
    Day 2

    Second dose. Continued with some odd hot flashes.
    Libido may be raised?

    Weighed in at 211
    Hot flashes may be from low estrogen. I get them in post cycle therapy with serms. Also, epistane makes me fell kinda out of it at high doses. Dont panic. Thats the worst thing you can do on cycle. Keep in mind, your dumping large quantities of potent anabolics into your system, your body is just reacting to that. Of coarse libido will be raised on steroids. Just chill out. If you decide to stop cycle, I hope you have planned out something better than an AI for pct. Epistane is moderate at best on HTPA suppression, so I would recommend a SERM to jump start it. Epistane shuts me down to some degree even on a pulse cycle. My gut feeling is that you are either really young, or you didn't do much research before jumping into steroids. Best wishes~LilPsych
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    Not too young - 32... and I read quite a bit on the other forum before jumping in...

    Raised libido doesn't bother me... it's actually a good thing at my age... and hot flashes don't cause any real damage.

    It's the really odd funky feeling I'm getting. I feel a little nauseous and really really unfocused and unsettled.

    Not just a little unfocused... really unfocused.

    What's scaring me is that I'm scheduled to up the dosage since I'm only running 20mg right now and I feel this sick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fattytca View Post
    Yes, first ever cycle.

    Support supp's are:

    Whey
    AI Cycle Support
    Taurine
    Potassium
    Multi
    Fish Oil
    Flax


    Clomid was my plan for post cycle therapy after running a cycle straight through, although I had originally considered running a pulse cycle so I was just going to go with the Novedex XT and I have that ready to go if need be.
    I'm sorry, I didn't see this prior to my first response. You apparently have some support and SERMS in line, but clomid isn't really a good choice for these types of cycles but it's better than nothing. I can't explain your peculiar reaction to epi. I guess everyone is different, because I really don't get many sides from it other than your run of the mill methyl/androgenic sides. If it were disrupting my life to a considerable extent, I would probrably stop the cycle and go to pct. But thats just me. Best wishes~Lilpsych
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    If your only compalints are lethargy and hot flashes then my suggestion to you would be to get some RPM or a Stim of your choice for the afternoon and not take the EPI after 1700.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fattytca View Post
    Not too young - 32... and I read quite a bit on the other forum before jumping in...

    Raised libido doesn't bother me... it's actually a good thing at my age... and hot flashes don't cause any real damage.

    It's the really odd funky feeling I'm getting. I feel a little nauseous and really really unfocused and unsettled.

    Not just a little unfocused... really unfocused.

    What's scaring me is that I'm scheduled to up the dosage since I'm only running 20mg right now and I feel this sick.
    Yeah, @ 40-50mg is when the sides hit me with this compound. So if you feel like this @ 20mg, one would assume that it will be unbearable at 40mg. I just came off a cycle of epi 2 days ago. I felt kinda out of it for the last 2 of 4 weeks, and lethargy pounded me at 50mg/day during the last week. Saw good gains though, ~9lbs in 4 weeks. Hopefully they'll stick. High carbs seemed to help with my lethargy, but lack of focus remained throughout most of the cycle. However I didn't feel sick or whoosy. Well good luck, perhaps someone with more experience could help a bit more.
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    So what do you think considering that I've only been on for 9 days and am still only on a dosage of 20mg? Stopping now - would an AI be sufficient?

    I don't want to run a big fat decreasing cycle of SERM when I've only been on this for just over a week, do I?

    It might just be opinions at this point, but I'll take them. I'm about 90% certain I'll discontinue as of today so I want to start on one or the other tomorrow.

    If it's just Novedex XT, what dose to start declining?
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    i would go on adlest a week of pct with tamox, just the pct forums, you dont want to suppress your HPTA
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    What is your diet like? Are your calories sufficiently raised?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    What is your diet like? Are your calories sufficiently raised?
    Agreed. Also what is your water intake everyday? Sounds like you could use more water.
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    Day 9

    Water intake is about a gallon and a half. In my first 3 days, I think it was an issue but I upped the water since then... Still could probably use a bit more since I'm retaining so much - looking bloated.

    Calories are around 2800-3000/day. Protein intake is about 200g/day.

    Yesterday I delayed taking any Epistane b/c I felt so horrible. I was taking all doses in the morning... gave myself a bit of a break.

    The workout was okay... No noticable strength gains. Vascularity appeared way up in my upper chest which I thought was cool considering the water retention.

    I could barely do cardio. I forced 12 minutes on the elliptical even though I'm used to about double that. It feels half mental, but I just feel exhausted when it comes to cardio.

    My head started clearing about 3pm from all the wooziness I was describing and I was thinking clearly at about 80%.

    I decided to take the Epistane at around dinner time. That might be the key b/c as of this morning, I feel pretty good.

    I'm scheduled to increase to 30mg today - so I'll take the 3 pills again at dinner time today and see how I fare tonight/tomorrow.

    Weight was up to 212 lbs.
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    Maybe you should try 10mgs pre workout and the other 10mgs post.

    It's also possible that Epistane is not for you...I had some lethargy on epistane as well.

    I am a firm believer that, whatever you cycle, you should ENJOY it. So if the 10mgs pre/post thing doesn't workout for you I'd say just cut your loses and stop the cycle. Try something else once you recover....the best I've ever felt on cycle was with a Halodrol-50 clone. It actually helped me focus...kinda like ginko. Good luck man!
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    Day 10

    Wow - feeling so much better based on when I'm taking the dosage. It's now been 2 days on 30mg, but I take it at dinner time. The nasty effects are probably present as I sleep, but thankfully, I'm not awake to notice them.

    I'm guessing this won't drastically harm my chances of gaining muscle since it remains in the system. Again, my workouts are in the mornings.

    My head is much clearer. My workout was strange today - I could do a few more reps in my first sets than usual, but felt completely spent on subsequent sets.

    I always work to failure so I'm able to gauge pretty well.

    Cardio was garbage again.

    I'm holding some pumps through the day and I look sort of puffy. I'm eager to move to PCT and lose some of this water.

    Weight steady at 212
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    Day 13

    Night doses are DEFINITELY my best bet. I took it too early a couple days ago and couldn't sleep, couldn't focus, etc...

    Weight has held steady at 212.

    Given everyone saying they've gained 6-10lbs on epistane during a cycle, I'm not having the luck.

    I feel more powerful while I'm awake but my workouts are garbage. Libido is still sky high.

    I'm lethargic as hell. Cardio remains a struggle.

    I'm getting the perma-pump that my co-worker got while taking this and it helps my motivation.

    Still, knowing that I'll drop some water weight when I'm done, I wonder how much mass I'll actually have added.

    Almost half way through and without passing total judgment yet, I'm leaning toward not taking this again.

    Would there be any benefit to adding in any of the following to my cycle?

    DHEA
    Tribulus
    Funugreek


    I'm planning on adding them to my PCT, but just wondering if I should start before the cycle is over.

    Thanks!
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    as long as your not pulsing, night time should be ok. but some people get a little boost taking it pre-workout. subed. you can add those to your pct, there is a lot of controversy if DHEA is allright for pct, i don't think its suppressive, the studies are contradictory.
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    When you say there's controversy about if it's allright for PCT, do you mean that:

    1) there's controversy about if it works

    or

    2) there's controversy about if it's dangerous to use during PCT?

    Also, when you say that it's suppressive, you're talking about cortisol, right?

    What about tribulus and fenugreek on cycle?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fattytca View Post
    When you say there's controversy about if it's allright for post cycle therapy, do you mean that:

    1) there's controversy about if it works

    or

    2) there's controversy about if it's dangerous to use during PCT?

    Also, when you say that it's suppressive, you're talking about cortisol, right?

    What about tribulus and fenugreek on cycle?

    Thanks!
    there is controversy regarding DHEA as part of PCT, because it might be suppressive, i ment DHEA itself is suppressive, you can try x-lean but it costs more than dhea, dr. d was recommending 25mg on off days for pule cycle cort. control, but your running an ED cycle, i would do a search on DHEA, but i would defiantly integrate a SERM as the foundation of your PCT.
  

  
 

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