M1T vs Superdrol

[TripDog]

i found this and wanted to share...

M1T (methyl 1 testosterone)

BAD FOR LIVER: EXTREMELY.
BLOOD PRESSURE: INCREASES.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: SERIOUS.
SEX DRIVE: KILLS
MOOD: FLU - You feel like you have the "flu" from what I've heard
WATER RETENTION/"SWELLING" - expect to lose 1/3 of "gains".
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 10-15 lbs.
GAINS START: 4 days.
TESTES SHUTDOWN: within 2-3 days.
HALF-LIFE: 8 hours?


SUPERDROL (methasteron)
2a,17a-Dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

BAD FOR LIVER: YES, less than M1T
BLOOD PRESSURE: VARIES, MIGHT INCREASE.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: VARIES, CAN BE SERIOUS. Less than M1T.
SEX DRIVE: VARIES, MIGHT INCREASE, TENDS TO DECREASE
MOOD: HANGOVER (some), WELL-BEING (others)
WATER LOSS - dehydration is a real issue.
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 7-10 lbs.
GAINS START: 10 days.
GAINS STOP: 3 weeks.
MINIMAL ESTROGEN CONVERSION
TESTES SHUTDOWN: slow progression, 10-20 days?

Also known as: Masterdrol, Methyl-drol

 

[freqfly]

Good info Trip

 

[B5150]

i found this and wanted to share...

M1T (methyl 1 testosterone)

BAD FOR LIVER: EXTREMELY.

CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: SERIOUS.

TESTES SHUTDOWN: within 2-3 days.

HALF-LIFE: 8 hours?


SUPERDROL (methasteron)
2a,17a-Dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

BAD FOR LIVER: YES, less than M1T

CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: VARIES, CAN BE SERIOUS. Less than M1T.

TESTES SHUTDOWN: slow progression, 10-20 days?

This is all assumption without data. I am not saying that these risks are not accurate but unless someone has data to support the comparison it is all speculation. I, as an intelligent and analytical observer, would like to see side by side data to support such claims rather than assume that they are true.

That's just how I roll.

 

[RisingAgainst]

This is all assumption without data. I am not saying that these risks are not accurate but unless someone has data to support the comparison it is all speculation. I, as an intelligent and analytical observer, would like to see side by side data to support such claims rather than assume that they are true.

That's just how I roll.

I agree.. there needs to be a comparative run of both with the SAME supporting supplements and diet/training.. yes training a certain way impacts your liver values.. especially if you get blood done within 2 days of training. IMPO M1T is far less liver toxic than SD... We should have a .pdf file soon enough to prove this I hope.

 

[TripDog]

This is all assumption without data. I am not saying that these risks are not accurate but unless someone has data to support the comparison it is all speculation. I, as an intelligent and analytical observer, would like to see side by side data to support such claims rather than assume that they are true.

That's just how I roll.

well i came across this and wanted to put it out there to hear some feedback....what dont you agree with?? Looks acurate to me.

 

[Travis]

well i came across this and wanted to put it out there to hear some feedback....what dont you agree with?? Looks acurate to me.

Based on user feedback I would have to agree these seem in line with what you hear. Of course user feedback can be biased but over time you should see some patterns.

 

[RisingAgainst]

well i came across this and wanted to put it out there to hear some feedback....what dont you agree with?? Looks acurate to me.

Look in the steroid section a few pages back for "best something for the most size gains" it's like 6-7 pages long.. read it.

 

[freqfly]

It seems pretty acurate to me. I've ran M1T twice and known several people who've ran superdrol and most of that info is dead on.

 

[TripDog]

Look in the steroid section a few pages back for "best something for the most size gains" it's like 6-7 pages long.. read it.

seen it..

 

[RisingAgainst]

It seems pretty acurate to me. I've ran M1T twice and known several people who've ran superdrol and most of that info is dead on.

m1t = 04 SD = 06... BIG differences in what you did back then vs what you do now.. 2on/2off/2on crap back then, milk thistle and 6oxo for pct... stacking it with 2 other methyls.. LOL we were dumb back then.. compare it to now.. think about it.

 

[B5150]

well i came across this and wanted to put it out there to hear some feedback....what dont you agree with?? Looks acurate to me.

I did not say I didn't agree with it but rather question the validity of statement on face value.

M1T is very toxic to the liver and yet superdrol is less. How toxic is M1T and how much less is superdrol? What are the AST/ALT values respectively?

M1T is bad on cholesterol and yet superdrol is less. How bad is M1T on cholesterol and how much less is SD? What are the LDL/HDL values respectively?

M1T shuts you down in 2-3days and SD shuts you down in 10-20days. What were the LH/FSH and serum test and free and %free test for M1T at 2-3 days and what were they for SD at 2-3days and at 10-20days?

I am not trying to be antagonizing. I have issue when I see statements that are made and they are taken as fact on face value. I am not saying that either are not taxing in the areas that are in consideration. What I am saying is that these comparisons are purely speculation and assumptions and based solely on hearsay and not at all supported by data.

Just for example, SD did nothing to my AST/ALT, so based on that I could assume then that M1T could easily be considered mild to me and my AST/ALT.

 

[pistonpump]

i would not read that and say its true or believe it. first off the person who wrote it says "You feel like you have the "flu" from what I've heard" and then says "HALF-LIFE: 8 hours?" okay. so the guy doesnt know. he has never done m1t himself just going off what he read. I have done both and I could stick thru a m1t cycle while superdrol had me quit soon even tho i was more experienced at that point. Ive gotten more nosebleeds on superdrol than m1t to suggest it raises BP more but its all an based on experiences and no real clinical data. its just hearsay. where did you get it?

 

[Jayhawkk]

Really not a well written comparison. there's one thing to remove jargon that most would miss but that isn't really the case here. There's no baselines or real comparison values other than what feels like nothing but opinion.

 

[T-Bone]

Same thing different "subjects"

Dogs
-----


Loyal - yes very
Eat- anything and everything
Bath- If you don't give them a bath once in while they will really stink!
Noisy- Sometimes they bark too much
Training- Easy
Poop- They Poop outside


Cats
-----

Loyal- No they don't like being pets
Eat- very finicky and picky
Bath- Cats hate water and bathing will be a terrible experience for you and the cat
Noisy- not really can meow too much sometimes
Training- are you kidding me? A cat?
Poop- The have their stupid little box that they crap in. You have to keep it inside because cats are just panisies!

 

[Australian made]

i would not read that and say its true or believe it. first off the person who wrote it says "You feel like you have the "flu" from what I've heard" and then says "HALF-LIFE: 8 hours?" okay. so the guy doesnt know. he has never done m1t himself just going off what he read. I have done both and I could stick thru a m1t cycle while superdrol had me quit soon even tho i was more experienced at that point. Ive gotten more nosebleeds on superdrol than m1t to suggest it raises BP more but its all an based on experiences and no real clinical data. its just hearsay. where did you get it?

looks like its just been cut and pasted from the Sinners thread where he gives a little description on recent PH's etc. I could be wrong though but it looks familiar.

 

[TripDog]

hey,hey i didn't write it and im not defending it.I just thought looked interesting sence very little reliable info regarding either is around in high enough numbers...anyone have any real study links? I for one would love to see them.

 

[TripDog]

looks like its just been cut and pasted from the Sinners thread where he gives a little description on recent PH's etc. I could be wrong though but it looks familiar.

no dude trust me it's not from sinners thread.

 

[daniel35]

I've run both m1t and superdrol as well as basically everything else legal and this is my thoughts on the diffference between the two. On the positive side for M1t it kicks in within 2-3 days and you really feel "on", and pumps and motivation to workout is insane. On the negative side shutdown is severe and fast to take hold, good cholesteral drops to very scarry single digit levels very quickly, and its probably as good as a buzzsaw on your liver. But still with all that against it I would still use it if it were legal for a 2 week kickstart of something non-methyl because it was just that radical of a jump in strength(think A-Bomb jump). Superdrol is amazing in its own right and is probably still the best available today. Strength starts going up from the first week on. You go up in weight literally ever workout if everything else is in check(diet, proper rest, proper workout intensity). Everything else is close to M1t both positive and negative except for these two major issues, firstly dehydration and cramps can literally put you in the hospital. I've had two friends who had major pulls in their stomachs(one who had to have surgery, and the other still feels pain from what he describes as a rip under his ribcage and its been 2 years since he used superdrol). I directly associate the SD with the cramps and pulls in muscles(I always megadose taurine and magnesium when using SD). Secondly SD has some pretty powerful depressant effects that seem to last a long time after discontinuation. It makes it really hard to get out of bed in the morning and get going, and it takes away motivation to workout, eat, work, etc. I really can see why the powers that be haven't cracked down fully on SD yet, because anykind of athlete that was using SD as a performence enhancer would probably find himself on the sidelines because of either a pulled muscle or a lackluster perfomence. Anyway I just felt like rambling today, so if any of this makes sense or is useful to anyone Its all good.

 

[thesinner]

no dude trust me it's not from sinners thread.

not from my thread. just similar format. it's a good format :thumbsup:

BTW, superdrol's sides are skewed by the quality of the batch. From the alpha tests of superdrol, it appeared to be very mild, yet effective.

Superdrol is easily synthesized from anadrol. Some people seem to have liver toxicity, bloating, and gyno from superdrol or clones. :think: Bad Batch?

 

[Australian made]

not from my thread. just similar format. it's a good format :thumbsup:

BTW, superdrol's sides are skewed by the quality of the batch. From the alpha tests of superdrol, it appeared to be very mild, yet effective.

Superdrol is easily synthesized from anadrol. Some people seem to have liver toxicity, bloating, and gyno from superdrol or clones. :think: Bad Batch?

sorry mate my bad, i did find your thread helpful actually. have read it more then once!

 

[Jstrong20]

Used both and trips description is right.

 

[thesinner]

it's all good

 

[B5150]

Used both and trips description is right.

Well that settles it then. Never mind the evidence to support the claims. We now have all we need.

If you would be kind enough to humor us, please share with us your hormone, lipid and liver profiles before and after for both of these hormones.

 

[Jstrong20]

The only thing I would change is that I can keep the gains off m1t pretty well. As for lipids and liver values most I have seen would support what tirp said. I don't get blood test.lol I just take my support supps and hope for the best.

 

[B5150]

So, as was stated earlier, this is hearsay. Thank you.

 

[Travis]

So, as was stated earlier, this is hearsay. Thank you.

I believe most people view this as user feedback (my apologies if not). Of course its impossible to tell how healthy your liver is without bloodtests, but overtime you should see similar reactions/responses based on user feedback. And to me that is useful. If you dont think its useful then what is the purpose of the "Supplement Reviews" forum? Pretty sure nobody is getting before/during/after bloodwork on all the different supps/designers their logging.

 

[B5150]

Well, then a "I feel bad" or "I wonder what it is doing to my cholesterol" or "I wonder what it is doing to my liver" or "I wonder what it is doing to my HPTA" review would be better than to make statements without evidence.

Never mind. I am just more analytical and evidence conscious when I post and when I make statement. You can all do as you want and think as you will.

 

[TripDog]

well what about sinners(nothing personal sinn:thumbsup: ) page of profiles.....there is no blood tests there,or any scientific back yet nobody bashed that...and it was all hearsay.Everyone was saying how great it was...:think:how is something like this any different?

B5150 i totally feel you bro,and only take these types of opinions about steroid effects with a grain of salt....i really like real scientific feedback to base my opinions on....much like with peptides(igf,and so) it is very important to understand in extreme detail what you are putting into your body before you use it. :thumbsup:

 

[thesinner]

what the heck are we even arguing about?

My 'profiles' were based on what I had read from logs and other user feedback in various threads on AM. I made sure to mention that.

Only thing I would point out is that superdrol is 5a-reduced, meaning it can't convert into estrogen. Estrogenic sides are based on impurites in the compound.

 

[B5150]

well what about sinners(nothing personal sinn:thumbsup: ) page of profiles.....there is no blood tests there,or any scientific back yet nobody bashed that...and it was all hearsay.Everyone was saying how great it was...:think:how is something like this any different?

B5150 i totally feel you bro,and only take these types of opinions about steroid effects with a grain of salt....i really like real scientific feedback to base my opinions on....much like with peptides(igf,and so) it is very important to understand in extreme detail what you are putting into your body before you use it. :thumbsup:

I am sorry for what appears to be bashing you or your post. I don't think we disagree. I am just quite analytical and data driven at times. Again, I am sorry for busting your balls.

thesinner's profile post was stupid.

Are we better now.

 

[TripDog]

I am sorry for what appears to be bashing you or your post. I don't think we disagree. I am just quite analytical and data driven at times. Again, I am sorry for busting your balls.

thesinner's profile post was stupid.

Are we better now.

:rofl: haha ok i feel better now

 

[pistonpump]

Only thing I would point out is that superdrol is 5a-reduced, meaning it can't convert into estrogen. Estrogenic sides are based on impurites in the compound.

well i beg to differ. Because a compound is 5a reduced does not mean estrogenic sides will not occur at some point. There are other mechanisms to take in effect like prolactin and feedback loop. you could be right about it being bad batches and unpure compounds but most of gyno has been delayed....in or after PCT. I do remember it being dry so estrogen problems on cycle are pretty unheard of but how do you explain all the delayed gyno? Remember Anadrol can cause gyno and there was debate whether or not it was estrogenic.

 

[thesinner]

well i beg to differ. Because a compound is 5a reduced does not mean estrogenic sides will not occur at some point. There are other mechanisms to take in effect like prolactin and feedback loop. you could be right about it being bad batches and unpure compounds but most of gyno has been delayed....in or after post cycle therapy. I do remember it being dry so estrogen problems on cycle are pretty unheard of but how do you explain all the delayed gyno? Remember Anadrol can cause gyno and there was debate whether or not it was estrogenic.

Anadrol is the impurity.

 

[pistonpump]

that wasnt my point. im saying people debated for a long time if anadrol had estrogenic sides. If i remember right it is 5a reduced as well.

 

[pistonpump]

Since Anadrol is derived from DHT, it can´t actually convert to estrogen (via the aromatase enzyme), and it´s not a progestin or a compound with progestenic activity& so the estrogenic (?) side effects produced by it are of a very mysterious nature. It has been speculated that perhaps it can stimulate the estrogen receptor without actually being converted to estrogen& that´s about as plausible an explanation
-----------
Superdrol (methasteron) is definitely not a prohormone: it is a very active form of a designer supplement. Superdrol gets its name from the fact that it is a super-saturated, or 2-reduced, form of Anadrol. Anadrol has a =C-OH at the 2nd position, and if this is totally saturated (reduced) with hydrogen, it gives -CH3. Another way to describe it is that it is a 2a-17a-dimethyl of drostanolone (Masteron). Masteron has a single methyl group at the 2nd position. Superdrol is a modification of this structure by adding another methyl group at the 17th position, like M1T or M-Dien. However you may wish to look at it, it is by this simple-looking transformation that Superdrol comes to occupy the sweet spot between the chemical natures of Anadrol and Masteron. Since it is already reduced at the 5th position, it cannot make estrogen. Progesterone is not an issue: perhaps 0.1% can aromatize, in theory. In fact, this compound should not have any major metabolites at all. Maybe a few hydroxylated adrenal metabolites, but only traces. It is basically excreted unchanged as the conjugated glucuronate. The extra electron density at the 2 makes Superdrol 2-3x as anabolic (mg for mg) than Anadrol. To borrow from the language of genetics, Superdrol is a fine example of hybrid vigor: it has only the best attributes of each, and none of the worst. This is a supplement designed to have it all.



Anadrol/oxymetholone 17ß-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-3-one

Superdrol/methasteron 2a,17a-Dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

Masteron/drostanolone 2a-methyl-17ß -hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

Proviron/mesterolone 1a-methyl-17ß -hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

----------------------

It has been proposed that the estrogenic issues of Anadrol (Oxymetholone) may not be as much mediated by estrogen, as by Anadrol itself activating the estrogen receptor. Because there is little to no aromatisation off Anadrol, the possible progestational event was studied first. Similar to that of nandrolone perhaps. But a study2 testing the progestational issues of Anadrol and methandrostenolone against those of testosterone as well as nandrolone and its metabolites demonstrated that the progestagenic activity of Anadrol wasn't even in the neighbourhood of that of testosterone, permited alone nandrolone. Opinion out the possibility of progestagenic activity and aromatisation, that only left Anadrol engaging in a construction with the estrogen receptor itself. Since it has an A-ring similar to that of estradiol (the prime estrogen) so this would be the most logical business relationship. Since progesterone enactments as an estrogen agonist, it would ask circulating estrogen to talk terms such grades of water construct-up as Anadrol do, so it appeared wish a far-fetched thought to start out with.

 

[thesinner]

that wasnt my point. im saying people debated for a long time if anadrol had estrogenic sides. If i remember right it is 5a reduced as well.

I know about anadrol's affinity for ER's. I'm saying that you can't say that it's the methyldrostanolone that's causing estrogenic sides (drostanolone is actually 90% as anti-estrogenic and epithiostanol) because you don't know if/how much anadrol is in it.


below taken from : http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...bstract/3/2/99

--------------------------------------------------------------------

2 3-Epithio-5-androstan-17ß-ol in Treatment of Gynecomastia
OSAHIKO ABE, M.D.1, SOICHI KUMAOKA, M.D.2 and HIROSHI YAMAMOTO, M.D.3

1 Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan
2 Endocrinology Division, National Cancer Center Research Institute Tokyo, Japan
33 Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan

Received November 19, 1973;
1. The clinical effect of epitiostanol, a new anti-estrogen agent (2,3-epithio-5a-androstan-17ß-ol) against gynecomastia was studied in comparison with dromostanolone propionate in fifty-four patients ranging from twenty to fifty years in age without previous history of hormone therapy and with normal liver function. The experiment was performed for eight weeks by double blind methods in three dosage groups, epithiostanol 10 mg, and 20 mg and dromostanolone propionate 50 mg.
2. Epithiostanol 20 mg was most effective with regards to effect on mass size and tenderness, (effective in 96%, 20/21), followed by 10 mg epitiostanol (effective in 89%, 16/18) and dromostanolone propionate 50 mg (effective in 89%, 16/18) in descending order. No side effects were observed in any of the three groups.
3. Based on the results of the present study, epitiostanol is concluded to be at least as effective as dromostanolone propionate against gynecomastia and to be safe from the viewpoint of side effects. A satisfactory therapeutical effect on gynecomastia can be expected with a weekly dosage of 20 mg of epitiostanol for an administration period of between five to eight weeks.

Present Address: Department of Surgery, Keio University Hospital, Shinanomachi, Shin-juku-ku, Tokyo, Japan.

 

[pistonpump]

the excerpt you posted is for dromostanolone propionate, if that is a spelling error for drostanolone it still is not superdrol. the compound in the study(if its a sp error) is masteron prop.

....and i cant remember what we are debating about lol.

 

[thesinner]

the excerpt you posted is for dromostanolone propionate, if that is a spelling error for drostanolone it still is not superdrol. the compound in the study(if its a sp error) is masteron prop.

....and i cant remember what we are debating about lol.

Study compared epithiostanol (epistane minus the methyl) to masteron. it's a synonym.



Not really sure what we're bickering about anymore either. Can we at least agree 5A-reduced steroids can't aromatize? I will call a truce after that. :lol:

 

[pistonpump]

Study compared epithiostanol (epistane minus the methyl) to masteron. it's a synonym.



Not really sure what we're bickering about anymore either. Can we at least agree 5A-reduced steroids can't aromatize? I will call a truce after that. :lol:

well masteron is not superdrol. we know methylation changes things, sometimes drastically.

I will agree 5a-reduced steroids cant convert to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme.