Epistane bunk? Substitue M-Drol?

[Xmass85]

Ok so heres the link to my cycle plans for September.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/73684-phera-plex-epistane.html

Im becomming very paranoid after reading abunch of articles on other sites about Epistane being Bunk and only containing 40% of what it actually says it suppose to. So now im considering ultering my cycle abit, scratching the Epistane and doing 3 weeks PP 3 weeks M-drol. Am i paranoid and should just stick with hte planned cycle or jump ship and forget the epistane?

 

[bigschmidt821]

Ok so heres the link to my cycle plans for September.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/73684-phera-plex-epistane.html

Im becomming very paranoid after reading abunch of articles on other sites about Epistane being Bunk and only containing 40% of what it actually says it suppose to. So now im considering ultering my cycle abit, scratching the Epistane and doing 3 weeks PP 3 weeks M-drol. Am i paranoid and should just stick with hte planned cycle or jump ship and forget the epistane?

epistane is great brother u are being a bit paranoid

 

[bigSMokey]

Ok so heres the link to my cycle plans for September.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/73684-phera-plex-epistane.html

Im becomming very paranoid after reading abunch of articles on other sites about Epistane being Bunk and only containing 40% of what it actually says it suppose to.

It's not that it's bunk, it's that the testing results between epistane and havoc were not congruent. I don't think the issue was ever settled, at least on this board, even after multiple tests, but I think the tests indicated only minor differences in the products. I believe cycle results (epistane vs. havoc) confirmed this.

 

[thesinner]

I had great results with Havoc, which I heard has less of the "good isomer" than Epistane.

 

[bigschmidt821]

havoc gave me strength and hardness and it gave me flu symtons both times i tried it

 

[RoadBlocK]

It's not that it's bunk, it's that the testing results between epistane and havoc were not congruent. I don't think the issue was ever settled, at least on this board, even after multiple tests, but I think the tests indicated only minor differences in the products. I believe cycle results (epistane vs. havoc) confirmed this.

I agree, there are a ton of logs with great success on both epistane and havoc, as well as a bunch of other epi products. I ran Havoc and thought it was great, I also purchased IBE epistane to run in the future, but right now Im testing Generic Labz Eptithin-E, which is going great, you can read my log:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/73124-roadblock-getz-craz.html


And Xmass85, Im just curious why you would even consider replacing IBE epistane, which so many people seem to love, with a virtually unknown super.drol clone like M-drol, theres maybe 3or 4 logs of dubious quality, if that, and alot of broscientists out there saying mdrol is good. Im not saying mdrol is bad, it could be great, Ive seen the coa, but that doesnt prove anything, and if your worried about the potency of epistane, then dont pick an unknown substitute, at least go for one of the established and time tested sd clones.

I personally would just stick with the epistane, if your even close to training and eating right, you wont be disappointed.

 

[fatsuperman]

I am positive that the results from epitstane are real. Both from personal experience and observations of others I know who have used it.

It isn't dramatic or immediate, but you will get results with virtually no sides.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

It isn't that these are bunk hormones, its just that nobody has really proven that ANY of the hormones, which are supposed to be the label claimed hormone in Epi/HAVOC/Hemaguno/etc, are the hormone the label claims them to be. In fact, we pretty don't really know "for sure" what's in them. We do know that they are some sort of anabolic hormone, and that they work (not "bunk" in function). In addition, the lab results show that it would appear that many of the compounds which claim to be the same thing are actually probably different.

Regardless of what actually may be inside, we know that the products work, and that they are anabolics.

 

[Xodus]

It isn't that these are bunk hormones, its just that nobody has really proven that ANY of the hormones, which are supposed to be the label claimed hormone in Epi/HAVOC/Hemaguno/etc, are the hormone the label claims them to be. In fact, we pretty don't really know "for sure" what's in them. We do know that they are some sort of anabolic hormone, and that they work (not "bunk" in function). In addition, the lab results show that it would appear that many of the compounds which claim to be the same thing are actually probably different.

Regardless of what actually may be inside, we know that the products work, and that they are anabolics.

I thought this all started because the lab compared the ingredients of Epistane against the 'closest' compound they had, and that was Testosterone?




Maybe I am mistaking this e-drama for another one?


X

 

[neoborn]

Without getting into a whole lot of discussion over the testing yet again I would suggest the following to calm your paranoia:

1. Search this forum or the IBE forums for results containing the word Epistane and read read read. You will find the answer you seek.

2. Search these forums or BB.com for posts containing the word "Havoc" and read read read. You will find the answer you seek.

3. Once you have read and researched you will come to the conclusion that most have come to "Just try one!" buy one or the other you will see results!

I'm not getting into the whole "X" is better than "Z" because it will all be based on individual opinions. Many people have tried both and gained from both!

More importantly than any of this is proper research into how to do a cycle of PH's successfully, complete with bloodwork, liver support and post cycle therapy!

It's your liver and you only get one! ( well unless you have a donor ready)

Knowledge will set you free...

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[mmowry]

Great post Neo and like he said neither are bunk and there is no way that Epi only has 4mg/pill as I put on appreciable mass with both my cycles and 40mg was my highest dose.Just read all the logs and let the results speak for themselves.Good luck!

 

[thesinner]

the weight of active really isn't even relavant. Epistane and Havoc are better purity than clones, and the active is some rather potent stuff. I think on a milligram basis it's 11x as strong as halodrol.

Let's compare some different oral steroids to better illustrate what I'm getting at:

2mg Metribolone >>> 75mg Halodrol-50
10mg Superdrol > 150mg Prostanozol
25mg Dianabol >> 1000mg 1,4 Bold
4mg Epistane active > ?mg Active in Epistane Clone

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I thought this all started because the lab compared the ingredients of Epistane against the 'closest' compound they had, and that was Testosterone?

If Epi was testosterone, it wouldn't work for beans b/c testosterone is NOT 17a protected (w/ a methyl group is how it is usually done) and would be totally destroyed before it made it through first pass metabolism, thus the need for injectable Test.

They're all anabolic hormones, they all work, but some may work better than others because despite what's on the label it would appear they're not all the same thing, that's the bottom line. Results have been good with Epi and Havoc.

 

[Xodus]

If Epi was testosterone, it wouldn't work for beans b/c testosterone is NOT 17a protected (w/ a methyl group is how it is usually done) and would be totally destroyed before it made it through first pass metabolism, thus the need for injectable Test.

They're all anabolic hormones, they all work, but some may work better than others because despite what's on the label it would appear they're not all the same thing, that's the bottom line. Results have been good with Epi and Havoc.

I know that, I thought the 'lab results' post that went around a while ago was due to the lab not being able match the active in epi with anything 'known', so they compared it to testosterone. Which then caused everyone to think that they were all underdosed.


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64182-epistane-test-results.html

<snip>

The next results for the three products by RTP Labs was:
(Data posted in Chapter 1 Thread and a separate COC test on Epistane ordered by Mike McCandless)

Epistane - Est. amount per capsule tested = 3.8mg
Amount on label = 10.0mg
One major peak found with a MW of 270

Havoc - Est. amount per capsule tested = 3.3mg
Amount on label = 10.0mg
Two major peaks found with MW of 286 and 288

Hemaguno - Est. amount per capsule tested = 2.0mg
Amount on label = 12.5mg
Three major peaks were found with 2 compounds identified as Palmitic and Stearic Acid and one with a MW of 288.

Explanation: They are testing against testosterone, which is not the most accurate way to test the dose without a standard and could be the reason the numbers are coming out like this. Although, some were claiming Epistane to be an under-dosed product, it became evident that we were correct in assuming that the tests may have been skewed when comparing, with the same procedure, for other similar products. Amazingly the same people who argued that we had an under-dosed product quickly changed stances when the new data was available.
Furthermore, we were told by the analytical party, as well as what had been discussed at great length on several discussion boards, that there is a justification argument for a MW finding of 270 and an argument for 288 without a standard.


</snip>


X

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Yeah, it would appear they falsely thought the product was way underdosed, I remember that. But, they didn't have a good way to test for purity, so those results were just kinda useless.

And yeah, there was no standard developed for methyl-epithiostanol and that is why the 270 v 288 debate began in the first place. Two products, claiming the same ingredient, yet the GCMS and LCMS lab results were showing differences.

This all comes back to, it doesn't matter much anymore, they work, but they may well be different compounds.

 

[Xodus]

Yeah, it would appear they falsely thought the product was way underdosed, I remember that. But, they didn't have a good way to test for purity, so those results were just kinda useless.

And yeah, there was no standard developed for methyl-epithiostanol and that is why the 270 v 288 debate began in the first place. Two products, claiming the same ingredient, yet the GCMS and LCMS lab results were showing differences.

This all comes back to, it doesn't matter much anymore, they work, but they may well be different compounds.

I didn't say the studies were valid, I was just addressing the OP's concerns that he read on other sites stating that it was bunk and under dosed. That is where that crap came from, obviously there are enough satisfied consumers of the compound to know that it is in fact very potent and not bunk.

X

Im becomming very paranoid after reading abunch of articles on other sites about Epistane being Bunk and only containing 40% of what it actually says it suppose to. So now im considering ultering my cycle abit, scratching the Epistane and doing 3 weeks PP 3 weeks M-drol. Am i paranoid and should just stick with hte planned cycle or jump ship and forget the epistane?

 

[neoborn]

Ok here you go, I summarize for you:

1. Make a choice to buy one of the too either Havoc or Epistane

2. Make a choice NOT to buy Havoc or Epistane

Please do not engage in this useless and non productive banter, if you would prefer to chase your tail please see bb.com thanks.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I didn't say the studies were valid, I was just addressing the OP's concerns that he read on other sites stating that it was bunk and under dosed. That is where that crap came from, obviously there are enough satisfied consumers of the compound to know that it is in fact very potent and not bunk.

X

Yup...w/e it is, it works.

 

[fatsuperman]

I'm starting to believe repeated rehashing of this subject is being initiated by trolls with an agenda.

 

[Xmass85]

thanx for all the info guys, going with the epistane. M-drol is being saved for a spring cycle...ps, bunch of friends have used M-drol and gotten same gains they got off original superdrol

 

[neoborn]

:thumbsup: Good choice, up your calories ( if bulking ), train hard, rest harder and you will see beautiful gains n pumps!

Keep us posted on your progress! :head:

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[bioman]

Despite all the infighting and hooplah to the contrary, I've tried both Epi and Havoc and they both work. Havoc has a few more sides like back pumps but that's about the only difference I noticed..both produce solid gains.

 

[Xmass85]

neoborn man i appreciate all the insightful info and postive support from you buddy. I have twicked my cycle slightly, can I get your opinion on the dosages?

Day 1-7: Phera-Plex 20mg
Day 7-22: Phera-Plex 30mg
Day 22-25 Phera-Plex40mg
Day 18-22: Epistane 20mg
Day 23-30: Epistane 30mg
Day 31-42: Epistane 40mg

 

[neoborn]

Hey Xmass,

Someone else will have to chime in on the PP doses as I'm unfamiliar with that PH.

The Epi doses look fine! Definitely listen to your body and see how you feel and how your gains are, don't forget to eat higher cals if you are bulking.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[Xmass85]

eating 22 calories per pound of bodyweight (261*22=5742) and around 400 g's of protein. Mostly through steaks, lean ground beef, roast chicken, Beef, Pork...pork chops, chicken, salmon, tuna, etc etc. Should be good i respond well to PP

 

[neoborn]

Noice! :thumbsup:

Why not log it so we can all join in on the ride

Much Love,

Neoborn