Bi-Polar caused by gear
- 08-02-2007, 09:56 PM
- 08-02-2007, 10:21 PM
No but I know it can excacerbate existing mental health issues. I've gotten incredibly depressed on cycle before. It was badddd.
Differrent compounds are going to alter various nuerotransmitter levels and potentially cause instability in those prone to it already. A lot of people will disagree with this but we know from what limited research is out there that some changes do occur while on...and we have a lot of anecdotal observation.
08-03-2007, 01:48 AM
only if you are talking about the good slightly manic feeling of being on a large amount of test, and then being a little depressed when you come off, or even worse if you are sensitive to clomid.
08-03-2007, 01:55 AM
Lastly, almost all studies i've seen regarding the effects of test on mental health have been on healthy men without any psychological disorders--there may be "ethical" issues associated with this b/c i've never seen anything on it.
coming off should be your worry IMO.
08-04-2007, 01:40 AM
I think I remember reading where compounds that squash estrogen can also lower serotonin levels in some cases. It may be kind of hard to see the light for a person if they aren't working with much serotonin.
08-04-2007, 01:55 AM
The only thing that gets me is some minor PCT depression. Some people have reported feeling extremely anxious on Boldenone. Some can also feel too hot-headed on Tren. I'm a pretty mellow and laid back person so Tren didn't make me kill anyone LOL but I wouldn't recommend it if you're short-fused like Mike Tyson.
Johnny: Good point on serotonin. That can be aided by L-Tryptophan and/or SAM-e
08-04-2007, 02:30 AM
The serotonin crash from super low cholesterol levels is pretty much impossible to elevate until cholesterol levels stabilize. Been there, done that, never using either M1T or SD again because of it.
08-04-2007, 02:34 AM
Bi-polar disorder is often confused with hypogonadism. The psychological symptoms can be strikingly similar. I have yet to read of testosterone abuse causing bi-polar disorder, although it can cause depression and arguably anger problems.
My family doc thought my depression and other issues pointed towards me being bi-polar, when really I was just low in testosterone and thyroid function. This has been causing all my symptoms the whole time! He had me on every anti-depressant out there, and even lithium for 3 years, and I was still depressed and felt like crap.
I recently saw a neurologist, who noticed my medical records said I was bi-polar.. He confidently told me I was not bi-polar, so this even reassures what I thought all along.
What symptoms are you having and when were you last on a cycle? What compounds and dosages?
08-04-2007, 02:55 AM
08-04-2007, 03:09 AM
08-04-2007, 07:22 AM
The lack of super elevated test levels...steroids may not induce depression directly but i'd be willing to guess that indirectly they due because of coming off. Just like it was stated earlier, I believe some people are just prone to this more than others and probably already have disorders that they are possibly not aware of.
08-04-2007, 08:35 AM
08-04-2007, 03:13 PM
Just have to take into consideration what compound you are going to use AND do a stellar PCT to get test levels back up asap to help minimize the possibility of a funk. DHEA helps a lot, IMO.
Aside from PCT complications, being "on" has numerous variables to consider and a lot of that has to do with the particular compound and the metabolites it can produce.
Test is usually well tolerated, makes most people feel great and was once used as an anti-depressant..
BUT if someone improperly doses it and/or allows too much estradiol to build up, that can make you feel like crap and cascade into some real issues.
Orals are another story entirely, IMO. Methylated compounds that destroy lipid values can really put the hurt on my mental state. There are numerous studies highlighting this hypocholesteremic condition relating to a host of mental illnesses.
Yes, I've had depression all my life but it was NEVER as bad as when cycling SD. I had to quit after 8 days or so because it was completely debilitating and dangerous. Not saying this will happen to everyone..it certainly doesn't appear to..but if you are prone to issues, methyls can make them appear with a chip on their shoulder.
I know statements like that are not well recieved in this community. There are too many people who are hyper-defensive when it comes to the subject of "roids" and "rage" and they tend to base all their statements on either their good personal experiences or a few studies highlighting the benefits of testosterone supplementation. That kind of ignores a zillion other factors like the fact there is a new designer compound out every month with little or no data on it's nuerological effects.
So could test or another compound trigger a bi-polar episode? IMO, yes it could as you are taking the body and indirectly, the brain, out of homeostasis where it may be possible to trigger the nuerochemical cascade leading to either depression or mania.
Intuitively, this would be less likely to occur in a TRT situation as the point is to stabilize hormone levels as much as possible. A cycle on the other hand is quite the opposite.
08-04-2007, 07:45 PM
I agree with you...
Testosterone, if anything, makes people feel good and euphoric, it's estrogen that causes the craziness.. I mean... Look at women!
In all seriousness though, higher estradiol is NOTORIOUS for depression and suicidal behavior, especially in men with lower testosterone.
It's sad and pathetic how quick my doctor was to give me any anti-depressant out there, yet he can't treat me with what I biologically need because there is fear and a general lack of knowledge on testosterone in general and especially testosterone therapy.
We are 25-30yrs ahead in hormonal research with estrogens. Any woman can go get estradiol/progesterone birth control without a true medical need. And yes, this does make me bitter towards women I think in another 10-20 years more doctors will understand testosterone better... untill then..
I have yet to start treating myself with TRT, but have studied endocrinology on my own for the past 3-4yrs and have it down well. I can't wait to feel like myself again, and I am only 23! I hate to drag this off topic a bit, but my main concern, even with only 50mg 2x a week, is gyno.
I've noticed some issues and put myself on adex .4mg/wk.. Should I get some proviron or masteron and start my trt or wait untill I find the right adex dose? Also.. wondering if and how much I will need to up the adex once I start TRT.
08-04-2007, 07:53 PM
At that dose of test, gyno will not be a huge concern but you have lots of options with AI's these days..both natural and drug oriented. Bloodwork will tell all though.
08-04-2007, 07:58 PM
What Causes Bipolar Disorder?
"Scientists are learning about the possible causes of bipolar disorder through several kinds of studies. Most scientists now agree that there is no single cause for bipolar disorder—rather, many factors act together to produce the illness.
Because bipolar disorder tends to run in families, researchers have been searching for specific genes—the microscopic "building blocks" of DNA inside all cells that influence how the body and mind work and grow—passed down through generations that may increase a person's chance of developing the illness. But genes are not the whole story. Studies of identical twins, who share all the same genes, indicate that both genes and other factors play a role in bipolar disorder. If bipolar disorder were caused entirely by genes, then the identical twin of someone with the illness would always develop the illness, and research has shown that this is not the case. But if one twin has bipolar disorder, the other twin is more likely to develop the illness than is another sibling.6
In addition, findings from gene research suggest that bipolar disorder, like other mental illnesses, does not occur because of a single gene.7 It appears likely that many different genes act together, and in combination with other factors of the person or the person's environment, to cause bipolar disorder. Finding these genes, each of which contributes only a small amount toward the vulnerability to bipolar disorder, has been extremely difficult. But scientists expect that the advanced research tools now being used will lead to these discoveries and to new and better treatments for bipolar disorder.
Brain-imaging studies are helping scientists learn what goes wrong in the brain to produce bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses.8,9 New brain-imaging techniques allow researchers to take pictures of the living brain at work, to examine its structure and activity, without the need for surgery or other invasive procedures. These techniques include magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), positron emission tomography (PET), and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). There is evidence from imaging studies that the brains of people with bipolar disorder may differ from the brains of healthy individuals. As the differences are more clearly identified and defined through research, scientists will gain a better understanding of the underlying causes of the illness, and eventually may be able to predict which types of treatment will work most effectively." - NIMH: Bipolar Disorder
08-04-2007, 08:25 PM
"If you are genetically prone to the actual disorder, and not just suffering mania or depression, anything, even SUGAR could trigger a full-out episode. I don't think we understand enough about the disorder or even testosterone in general to say for sure,"
That's pretty much what I am alluding to..pre-existing conditions..which more people seem to have then don't have. I don't think AAS use will just "give" you a mental illness on it's own.
08-04-2007, 08:27 PM
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