Phera + EPI. looking for advice

[nycste]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 30mg Epi 30mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 40mg Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
Wk 6 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 7 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 8 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 9 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 10 Restore

or

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 4 Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg
Wk 7 Toremifene 120mg
Wk 8 Toremifene 120mg
Wk 9 Toremifene 60mg
Wk 10 Toremifene 60mg
Wk 11 Toremifene 30mg
Wk 12 Toremifene 30mg

or

please feel free to give advice on dosing and lenght. thankyou

if any other breakdown feels better to you please post it and say why. thanks.

 

[macedaddy]

take your first cycle, only overlap for 2 weeks and run epi and extra week on its own would be my suggestion.

 

[haroldjg]

This is how I would run it:
Wk 1 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg

I dont think people ever really think about running steroids inversely. Just something to think about. It would keep your methyls at a more constant level rather than ramping them up together.

 

[macedaddy]

This is how I would run it:
Wk 1 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg

I dont think people ever really think about running steroids inversely. Just something to think about. It would keep your methyls at a more constant level rather than ramping them up together.

Thats quite interesting! :thumbsup:

 

[nycste]

This is how I would run it:
Wk 1 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg

I dont think people ever really think about running steroids inversely. Just something to think about. It would keep your methyls at a more constant level rather than ramping them up together.

rather interesting as this has never been advised to me before

i forgot to mention that i have already started Phera. and im currently done with my first week. Weds tomm starts week 2. i have epistane and epidrol sitting next to me and im dying to start one of them and add it to phera.

so week 1 at phera 20mg is done. im hoping to start EPI tomm with whatever dosage.

 

[UNCfan1]

This is how I would run it:
Wk 1 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg

I dont think people ever really think about running steroids inversely. Just something to think about. It would keep your methyls at a more constant level rather than ramping them up together.

I like that. I might try that out with some Ergo/Epi or SD/Epi.

I also like the bridging idea.

Harold have u try running steroids inversely?

 

[haroldjg]

I like that. I might try that out with some Ergo/Epi or superdrol/Epi.

I also like the bridging idea.

Harold have u try running steroids inversely?

No, I havent tried it yet. Its just something that I have been thinking about for a while. I like to stack, but I dont like the idea of high mg's of methyls.

 

[UNCfan1]

No, I havent tried it yet. Its just something that I have been thinking about for a while. I like to stack, but I dont like the idea of high mg's of methyls.

I remember reading awhile back not sure where it was at but people were using this method on solo runs for Orals. But what u laid out seems very interesting.

 

[zbtboy]

I ran mine like this:

Wk1 PP 20mg
Wk2 PP 30mg
Wk3 PP 30mg
Wk4 PP 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk5+ Epi 20mg/30mg
Wk6+ Epi 30mg/40mg
Wk7 Epi 40mg

For whatever reason, week 4 was awful! I was cramping and experiencing the worst back pumps ever. Other than that one week, things went really well.

Oh yeah...Potassium, magnesium, and taurine didnt help much that week.

 

[UNCfan1]

I ran mine like this:

Wk1 PP 20mg
Wk2 PP 30mg
Wk3 PP 30mg
Wk4 PP 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk5+ Epi 20mg/30mg
Wk6+ Epi 30mg/40mg
Wk7 Epi 40mg

For whatever reason, week 4 was awful! I was cramping and experiencing the worst back pumps ever. Other than that one week, things went really well.

Oh yeah...Potassium, magnesium, and taurine didnt help much that week.

I like that too lol. I can't make up my mind on how I am going to run mine. I will swap PP with Ergo since thats what I have. I like this with the doses and length.

What were ur gains?

 

[nycste]

alright with all the advice given to me so far the best cycles look like this because i am already 1 week DONE with Phera at 20mg

1 phera 20 mg
2 phera 30 mg
3 phera 30 mg epi 20 mg
4 epi 30 mg
5 epi 30
6 epi 40 (1day at 30 6days at 40)


wk1 phera 20mgs (complete)
wk2 phera 20mgs, epi 20mgs
wk3 phera 20mgs, epi 20mgs
wk4 phera 20mgs, epi 20mgs
wk5 epi 30mgs
wk6 epi 40mgs (1day at 30 6days at 40)

OR...

wk1 phera 20mgs (complete)
wk2 phera 20mgs, epi 20mgs
wk3 phera 20mgs, epi 20mgs
wk4 phera 20mgs, epi 30mgs
wk5 epi 50mgs (1day at 40 6days at 40)

OR...

wk1 phera 20mgs (complete)
wk2 phera 30mgs, epi 20mgs
wk3 phera 30mgs, epi 20mgs
wk4 epi 40mgs (1day at 30 6days at 40)
wk5 epi 40mgs

-as of my first week done with phera i can honestly say i do not feel any negative OR postive effects. i take all my cleasning products as well to make sure everytings staying as safe as possible

-so to me running phera at 20-20-20-20 or 20-30-30 doesnt matter but i know most say phera is really strong and good product and maybe bringing it to only 3 weeks might not be advisable. either way these are my options. starting tomm morning

 

[nycste]

I ran mine like this:

Wk1 PP 20mg
Wk2 PP 30mg
Wk3 PP 30mg
Wk4 PP 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk5+ Epi 20mg/30mg
Wk6+ Epi 30mg/40mg
Wk7 Epi 40mg

For whatever reason, week 4 was awful! I was cramping and experiencing the worst back pumps ever. Other than that one week, things went really well.

Oh yeah...Potassium, magnesium, and taurine didnt help much that week.

ahh you snuck this one by me as i was typing my response to other posts hehe.

this is a nice split but you used either not the original PP or used 2 bottles which i can do as i have 2 bottles but i figured being my first cycle and all and adding EPI i might as well just keep Phera to 1 bottle.

what did you mean by epi 20/30 meaning however you felt on that day? or meaning half the week was 20 then other half was 30?

and yes tell us about your gains whether postive or negative thanks

 

[nycste]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 50mg

ok no official but so far this is my favorite. keeping things strong without going crazy the other option is bridging epi into phera on week 3 looking like this

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

 

[UNCfan1]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 50mg

ok no official but so far this is my favorite. keeping things strong without going crazy the other option is bridging epi into phera on week 3 looking like this

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

I kinda like both of these. Epi at 50mg could bad or good lol. 10mg to 40mg is a big jump. But I like the way u are thinking.

 

[Werewolf]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 50mg

ok no official but so far this is my favorite. keeping things strong without going crazy the other option is bridging epi into phera on week 3 looking like this

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 40mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 Epi 40mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

Running Pheraplex at 40 mg is just a bad idea period, the lethergy will make you useless. Adding 10 mgs of EPI is even worst. 20mgs of of phera-plex and 10mgs of EPI, maybe. EPI is pretty mild, but 50mgs after 5 weeks of methyls seems like a bad idea. Are you 300 pounds or something?

6 weeks of very high dose methyls, I hope you have cast iron liver and a ton of good supps.

 

[nycste]

Running Pheraplex at 40 mg is just a bad idea period, the lethergy will make you useless. Adding 10 mgs of EPI is even worst. 20mgs of of phera-plex and 10mgs of EPI, maybe. EPI is pretty mild, but 50mgs after 5 weeks of methyls seems like a bad idea. Are you 300 pounds or something?

6 weeks of very high dose methyls, I hope you have cast iron liver and a ton of good supps.

thanks for your comments and or advice but you didnt exactly recommend anything as far as combining the two products if they should even be combined.

id be happy to read and see what you think should be done.

i am no expert by any means and im combining all the advice im getting from lots of guys on the forums.

also to anyone reading this. if im taking 40mg of any 10mg pills how should they be dosed at what times.

currently im doing noon and midnight at 20mg.

if i bumped something to 40mg is that 20 at noon 20 at midnight.

or spread 4 times throughout the 16hours im awake?

 

[UNCfan1]

thanks for your comments and or advice but you didnt exactly recommend anything as far as combining the two products if they should even be combined.

id be happy to read and see what you think should be done.

i am no expert by any means and im combining all the advice im getting from lots of guys on the forums.

also to anyone reading this. if im taking 40mg of any 10mg pills how should they be dosed at what times.

currently im doing noon and midnight at 20mg.

if i bumped something to 40mg is that 20 at noon 20 at midnight.

or spread 4 times throughout the 16hours im awake?

This is how I would do it. 10mg in the morn, 10mg lunch or afternoon and 20mg pre workout. Of course u can change it to suit ur schedule.

 

[nycste]

This is how I would do it. 10mg in the morn, 10mg lunch or afternoon and 20mg pre workout. Of course u can change it to suit ur schedule.

thanks

currently i workout around 3-6. so if thats the case id do wakeup, 20 preworkout. 10 bed

 

[pistonpump]

i like this.

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

PP will give nice gains in at around wk 3-4. Im not sure about epi.

 

[zbtboy]

ahh you snuck this one by me as i was typing my response to other posts hehe.

this is a nice split but you used either not the original PP or used 2 bottles which i can do as i have 2 bottles but i figured being my first cycle and all and adding EPI i might as well just keep Phera to 1 bottle.

what did you mean by epi 20/30 meaning however you felt on that day? or meaning half the week was 20 then other half was 30?

and yes tell us about your gains whether postive or negative thanks

I used the original PP and did go into a second bottle. I've used PMAX before but its not as good as PP in my experience.

The 20/30 meant I did 20 half the week and then bumped up to 30 for the rest. I picked up a good solid 4-5lbs of muscle and another 8-10lbs of water which i dropped quickly. I had a lot of people walking up to me during that time asking what i was doing to add all that mass. I notice more mass on PP and strength with Epi so once the Epi kicked in the strength went through the roof! Recovery...well, lets say i never felt that i needed to recover

Other than week 4, I didnt really have any issues. Back pumps persisted into week 5 and were nowhere as bad as the previous week.

 

[macedaddy]

I used the original PP and did go into a second bottle. I've used PMAX before but its not as good as PP in my experience.

The 20/30 meant I did 20 half the week and then bumped up to 30 for the rest. I picked up a good solid 4-5lbs of muscle and another 8-10lbs of water which i dropped quickly. I had a lot of people walking up to me during that time asking what i was doing to add all that mass. I notice more mass on PP and strength with Epi so once the Epi kicked in the strength went through the roof! Recovery...well, lets say i never felt that i needed to recover

Other than week 4, I didnt really have any issues. Back pumps persisted into week 5 and were nowhere as bad as the previous week.

it was the PP that caused them........i did something similar to you and as PP builds in your system, they get pretty intense!

 

[Werewolf]

thanks for your comments and or advice but you didnt exactly recommend anything as far as combining the two products if they should even be combined.

id be happy to read and see what you think should be done.

i am no expert by any means and im combining all the advice im getting from lots of guys on the forums.

also to anyone reading this. if im taking 40mg of any 10mg pills how should they be dosed at what times.

currently im doing noon and midnight at 20mg.

if i bumped something to 40mg is that 20 at noon 20 at midnight.

or spread 4 times throughout the 16hours im awake?

You have not answered about how big you are which affect dosing recommendations.

Even though Methyls have longer half-lives, spreading is the best choice for dosing.

I never run Phera above 20 mgs with very good results. A lot of people have lethergy problems with even 30 mgs of Phera-plex. My recommendation for phera-plex is about 1 mg per 10 pounds.

If you are going to taper across then you reduce both doing levels. I don't plan on running EPI above 30 mgs, but 40 mgs is not insane (but high). A better taper is more like 10 mgs Phera-plex and 20 mgs Epi. 50% of each.

I have mixed Phera and Epi before without problems, but I keep my dosing low.

Running Methyls for longer than 4 weeks is starting to push it. I have run Phera-Plex several times at 5 weeks though. If you going to run long then you shouldn't run doses high too. I am running 6 weeks, but the first two weeks are nonmethyls (Six 11-OXO, 600 mgs of Bold and 120 mgs of X-Mass). I like feeling good and the 5th week on methyls I feel run down. When you feel run down you don't tend to do as well in the gym.

My recommendation is to go no more than 5 weeks. Get your methyl doses down and add some 11-OXO or 3AD (if it comes out). I starting to understand that Cortisol control is probably more important for me and probably others too for gaining. (High stress job and Type A personality)

This especially true if this is your first cycle, you grow very fast on low doses.

Here is kinda what I am up to now

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/70393-11-oxo.html

 

[pistonpump]

I used the original PP and did go into a second bottle. I've used PMAX before but its not as good as PP in my experience.

The 20/30 meant I did 20 half the week and then bumped up to 30 for the rest. I picked up a good solid 4-5lbs of muscle and another 8-10lbs of water which i dropped quickly. I had a lot of people walking up to me during that time asking what i was doing to add all that mass. I notice more mass on PP and strength with Epi so once the Epi kicked in the strength went through the roof! Recovery...well, lets say i never felt that i needed to recover

Other than week 4, I didnt really have any issues. Back pumps persisted into week 5 and were nowhere as bad as the previous week.

you have me thinking about a PP EPI cycle, sounds like a strong stack one which gains will be able to hold on to easier.

 

[supersoldier]

Haha mace, I see you took my advice about the avy! :cheers:

 

[nycste]

i like this.

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 30mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 Epi 30mg
Wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

PP will give nice gains in at around wk 3-4. Im not sure about epi.

aights thanks

I used the original PP and did go into a second bottle. I've used PMAX before but its not as good as PP in my experience.

The 20/30 meant I did 20 half the week and then bumped up to 30 for the rest. I picked up a good solid 4-5lbs of muscle and another 8-10lbs of water which i dropped quickly. I had a lot of people walking up to me during that time asking what i was doing to add all that mass. I notice more mass on PP and strength with Epi so once the Epi kicked in the strength went through the roof! Recovery...well, lets say i never felt that i needed to recover

Other than week 4, I didnt really have any issues. Back pumps persisted into week 5 and were nowhere as bad as the previous week.

interesting thanks for sharing

 

[nycste]

You have not answered about how big you are which affect dosing recommendations.

Even though Methyls have longer half-lives, spreading is the best choice for dosing.

I never run Phera above 20 mgs with very good results. A lot of people have lethergy problems with even 30 mgs of Phera-plex. My recommendation for phera-plex is about 1 mg per 10 pounds.

If you are going to taper across then you reduce both doing levels. I don't plan on running EPI above 30 mgs, but 40 mgs is not insane (but high). A better taper is more like 10 mgs Phera-plex and 20 mgs Epi. 50% of each.

I have mixed Phera and Epi before without problems, but I keep my dosing low.

Running Methyls for longer than 4 weeks is starting to push it. I have run Phera-Plex several times at 5 weeks though. If you going to run long then you shouldn't run doses high too. I am running 6 weeks, but the first two weeks are nonmethyls (Six 11-OXO, 600 mgs of Bold and 120 mgs of X-Mass). I like feeling good and the 5th week on methyls I feel run down. When you feel run down you don't tend to do as well in the gym.

My recommendation is to go no more than 5 weeks. Get your methyl doses down and add some 11-OXO or 3AD (if it comes out). I starting to understand that Cortisol control is probably more important for me and probably others too for gaining. (High stress job and Type A personality)

This especially true if this is your first cycle, you grow very fast on low doses.

Here is kinda what I am up to now

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/70393-11-oxo.html

ok first off thanks for all your info and feedback.

i am 6ft 200+ lbs.

this is my first cycle.

Wk 5 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 6 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 7 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 8 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 9 Restore
wk 10 restore
wk 11 restore
wk 12 restore

wks9-12 is questionable.

Support Supps during Cycle and PCT include:
Milk Thistle
Liv 52
Fish Oil
Hawthorne Berry
Red Yeast Rice
dandelion root
artichoke extract
NAC

Along with my normal BCAA EAAS Whey and Creatine

 

[nycste]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 Epi 30mg
wk 6 Epi 30mg

hows that look werewolf?

OR

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

 

[Werewolf]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 20mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 Epi 30mg
wk 6 Epi 30mg

hows that look werewolf?

OR

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
wk 5 Epi 40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 Epi 30mg

or

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg

 

[nycste]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 Epi 30mg

or

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
wk 5 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg

ok well i cant do the second option cuz week 1 is already gone and done with.


the first option would be fine but leaves me also with 14 phera pills leftover and lots of epi pills. not that anything is wrong with that im just saying.


i really like this.
Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20/30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 5 Epi 30/40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

epi at 40 really is optional i guess it depends on how i feel 30 will probably be just fine as well.

 

[Werewolf]

ok well i cant do the second option cuz week 1 is already gone and done with.


the first option would be fine but leaves me also with 14 phera pills leftover and lots of epi pills. not that anything is wrong with that im just saying.


i really like this.
Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20/30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 5 Epi 30/40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg

epi at 40 really is optional i guess it depends on how i feel 30 will probably be just fine as well.

Better

You got your supps in order?
You are going to need them.
At least EPI is pretty mild.
Expect to be run down by week 5.
Get plenty of sleep, etc

Still think a bottle of 11-OXO for weeks 5 and 6 would be good. Cortisol control, energy and lean you out.

 

[nycste]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20/30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 5 Epi 30/40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg
Wk 6 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 7 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 8 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 9 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 10 Restore
wk 11 Restore
wk 12 Restore
wk 13 Restore

Support Supps Used Daily
Milk Thistle
Liv 52
Fish Oil
Hawthorne Berry
Red Yeast Rice
dandelion root
artichoke extract
NAC
Multi

Possible addition of 11oxo for weeks 5/6

 

[Werewolf]

Wk 1 PherPlex 20mg
Wk 2 PherPlex 20/30mg (3 days at 20 then 30 for 4)
Wk 3 PherPlex 20mg Epi 10mg
Wk 4 PherPlex 10mg Epi 20mg
Wk 5 Epi 30/40mg
wk 6 Epi 40mg
Wk 6 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 7 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 8 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 9 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore
Wk 10 Restore
wk 11 Restore
wk 12 Restore
wk 13 Restore

Support Supps Used Daily
Milk Thistle
Liv 52
Fish Oil
Hawthorne Berry
Red Yeast Rice
dandelion root
artichoke extract
NAC
Multi

Possible addition of 11oxo for weeks 5/6

You are going to love the Tormifene. 4 weeks may be over kill for Toremifene, but that is not a bad thing. I run 3 weeks (120, 80, 40) with taper into NHA. Looks like you have the bases covered for supps and I will assume you have doses figured out. Good luck

 

[poopypants]

in all honesty 11 oxo would be over kill IMO its not JUST a cortisol reducer and can suppress you as it has direct androgen receptor binding effects.... if your gonna go the antin cort route lemme suggest you hold out for x-lean (im trying it now and loving it) or just grac some good old retain and then cotinure to run it all through post cycle therapy.

as for the rest of your supps it looks damn solid and i hope you did the smart thing and jsut picked up some cycle support.... it has all the NAC milk thistle and more that youll need and you can mix it right into your shakes.... if not oh well, more pills.

but maybe some powerfull (as we were discussing) for PCT and some other serious supps to make sure your gains in strength wont just fall off (as they wil be GREAT with phera and Epi) and youll help maintain your weight too.... just saw the deisel test so that should be pretty good butmaybe some HDX@ as well or the NHA stack from DS would be a good idea.

looks solid though just know you dont need to run torem @ 120 for a full week maybe only 2 or 3 days then 90 for 5 then jsut lower it 15mg every 5 days till gone.

 

[Werewolf]

I am also having good luck with Fritzer's creatine rountine of 3 days over heavy loading, 3 days off, then start it again and again. He does 25 grams of mono, but he is 250 lbs plus. I am doing 2 grams Citruilline Malate, 4 gram CEE and 12 to 15 grams mono. Plus lots of Gass-X. A little hard on stomach, but really seems to work.

 

[poopypants]

I am also having good luck with Fritzer's creatine rountine of 3 days over heavy loading, 3 days off, then start it again and again. He does 25 grams of mono, but he is 250 lbs plus. I am doing 2 grams Citruilline Malate, 4 gram CEE and 12 to 15 grams mono. Plus lots of Gass-X. A little hard on stomach, but really seems to work.

yea that sounds like a killer stack!! jsut make sure to avoid citrus fruit drinks bro! citruilline malate stacked with creatine though works great, n i too think that both CEE AND crea mono is the wa to go, i would usually dose crea mono in the morning and post workout and cit mal in the morn and then preworkout with the CEE, how do you like to split it up?

 

[Werewolf]

yea that sounds like a killer stack!! jsut make sure to avoid citrus fruit drinks bro! citruilline malate stacked with creatine though works great, n i too think that both CEE AND crea mono is the wa to go, i would usually dose crea mono in the morning and post workout and cit mal in the morn and then preworkout with the CEE, how do you like to split it up?

Totally random at this point. Why avoid critus drinks? Does that include Grapefruit?

I think CEE is good for after workout to push latic acid out.

 

[pistonpump]

i have to get on my creatine mono, i always stop taking it. I was very interested in the method Fritzer suggested, i think ill try it for myself starting tommarrow.

 

[nycste]

You know the 3 of you really should link or post what this fritz method is. i normally take green magnitude for my creatine on all workout days and some nonworkout days.

Calories 0
Calories from Fat 0
Magnesium 350 mg 88%
Magnesium Creatine Chelate 2,500 mg **
Dicreatine Malate 2,5000 mg **
Betaine Anhydrous 2,000 mg **
L-Taurine 2,000 mg **
L-Tyrosine 500 mg

 

[poopypants]

Totally random at this point. Why avoid critus drinks? Does that include Grapefruit?

I think CEE is good for after workout to push latic acid out.

well at least with crea mono it can interact with the oj or grapefruit very badly, ie. diarea or vometing.. puked and crapped a bunch learning this then saw it somewhere on the on here that others have had the same prblem.... try it if you like, but im afraid youd be unhappy with the results..... thats why they only suggest sports drinks, apple juice or grapejuice with crea mono on many diff brans......

 

[Werewolf]

You know the 3 of you really should link or post what this fritz method is. i normally take green magnitude for my creatine on all workout days and some nonworkout days.

Calories 0
Calories from Fat 0
Magnesium 350 mg 88%
Magnesium Creatine Chelate 2,500 mg **
Dicreatine Malate 2,5000 mg **
Betaine Anhydrous 2,000 mg **
L-Taurine 2,000 mg **
L-Tyrosine 500 mg

It is in this thread

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/68604-creatine-ethyl-ester.html

 

[macedaddy]

there is research backing up what i do (25g a day for 3 days/ off 3 days)..

there ya go, so you don't have to read 4 pages like i did........

But that is an interesting read, nonetheless!