Overtraining Syndrome, Ex-Finasteride User
07-05-2007 03:35 PM
Overtraining Syndrome, Ex-Finasteride User
Hi, people great news to find this site, i should have checked it out ages ago.
I wouldnt know where to post really so i just stuck my post here since it concerns finasteride the anti baldness drug which for me has acted more like a catabolic rather than an antabolic.
Since i took it my life completely changed. I was on it for 5 weeks and since then my sex life has dropped to zero literally. I have been having most of the side effects including penile shrinkage, testicular and groin pain, penis tiliting, complete loss of erection, nocturnal as well as morning woods are gone and i dont even know what they mean anylonger, plus i cant hold an erection even if i get one once in a month or so, palm sweating, hand tremor, headaches and loads of other symptoms i could go on for ages mentioning.
This has been my life for the last 4 yrs, so since i could no longer have or enjoy sex, i thought i would enjoy returning to the gym and playing sports.
I swear, it took me 2 yrs to loose the weight i would otherwise loose in 2 month before fin use, and that included careful diets and intense workout sessions including sprinting and squating and playing basketball.
For a serious period of time meanwhile i plateaud and couldnt bench press more than 80 or 85 kg which made me wonder since i was way stronger than that in the past. Ant that was 3 yrs after fin use. At that point i started to think how deeply this drug affected me.
Anyways, this yr i incorporated more and more squating in my program in order to try and boost my testo levels and improve my strength and maybe help a little my near zero libido.
Finally what happened was twice this yr i got into an overtraining state. I couldnt really explain it. One day i was happy in the gym lifting and the next day i woke up i wouldnt feel sore or anything, but instead i couldnt get out of bed, i would have serious heart and breathing problems, irritability, dead legs, increased metabolism, need for sleep but complete restlessness and insomnia and other weird problems, like light sensitivity and getting tired from watching tv or playing with my computer and retrosternal heartburn nausea, and very intense low back pain(i heard this could be from low testo)
Its been more than 4 months now im in this state, sometimes worse sometimes 10% better(that means i can walk for like a 50-60 meters) but generally i am really helpless. i have visited doctors and specialists, each one mentions new supplements and new ways to combat this overtraining. Lately, i tried the active rest program since i was so stuck in bed for more than 2 months and that made me completely depressed, so i started swimming a bit and instead of getting better i have lost sensation of my hands and arms. They feel completely weak and senseless like my nerves are working too much or too little and the signals they send are not complete or my muscles are not there on my hands any more.
On the other hand my legs still feel stiff, heavy, immobile and worst of all i have nausea and dizziness and this is really unexplainable since after all this rest and food i should at least be feeling better.
All this time i have tried increased complex carbo intake, protein supplements, glutamine, zinc, cold and hot showers and baths, l-arginine, massage, relaxation techniques, loads of vitamins and minerals and non of them really made an impact on my situation. I feel completely wacked, stale and like my nervous system is messed up. Sometimes i can walk a bit, sometimes i cant walk at all, sometimes i feel there is someone constricting my veins around the back of my neck and i have to sit or lie down immediately. Most of the times i cant breath properly while standing or walking, i feel the air i breath is not enough, like i have smoked 50 cigarretes or something, and when i lie in bed i breath 2 or 3 times faster and heavier to compensate for the lost oxygen while i was standing.
I have done series of blood tests to exlcude other causes to start with but the most significant and worth mentioning results are the ones concerning my hormone panels.
Testosterone 4.25 ng/ml ------ normal values 4-11
Free Testo 13.8 pg/ml ----- normal values 13-40
DHEA-S 4.2 μg/ml ------ normal values 1.6-4.5
SHBG 13nmol/L ------ normal values 15-48
Progesterone 0.83 ng/ml ------ normal values 0.1-1.0
LH 4.8 mIU/ml ------ normal values 1-15
FSH 2.5 mIU/ml ------ normal values 1.7-12
Estradiol e2 35 pg/ml ------ normal values 0-50
Albumin 4.7 gr/dl ------ normal is 3.4-5.0
SGPT 109 IU/L ------ normal is 25-65
cortisol morning 142 μg/l ------normal is 62-200
cortisol night 42 μg/l ------ normal is 23-119
DHT 50 ng/dl ------ normal is 30-85
vitamin b12 261 pg/ml ----- normal is 160-950
So from all this im concerned whether this fatigue and feeling of not being well is due to testo and free testo, which are affected during overtraining especially the free one or whether it is due to some other complication say for example my high ALT(SGPT) or my low vitamin b12. On the other hand i dont understand why for so long this hormone panel remains the same despite trying to boost it with supplements.
Last yr i have had similar but slighter problems but lasted around 6 weeks, i didnt take any supplements or anything else to correct it, and at that time my free testo went maximally down to 17.5 this time there was a period when it was down to 10.8!!!. I dont know if that is that low, and if anyone here has been overtrained in the past for that long he may wanna enlighten me.
Anyways there is a lack of specialists here where i live in greece, and im really concerned about this thing since 4 months have passed by and i cant get any better, i keep staying inside lying down and trying to relax and think positive, while outside its 35 degrees and people are partying and swimming by the sea. This sucks, really.
To sum all this up, my thoughts are going back to finasteride, since that day i took that drug, my hormones have completely plummeled and i can say that for sure. First i had drop in dht then dht rose and the rest like free testo and T went down while estradiol and progesterone kept increasing.
This i guess made me so vulnerable to all this im facing now, let alone my chances of getting better which are scarce at this point. It feels like im coming out of the gym everyday even right now, completely dead and exhausted but without the feeling of well being there, just the exhaustion.
Moreover sometimes i try to ejaculate and then i have pains for like 2 days, throbbing and stubbing around my testicles and penis. This really is something. I would have sex 2 or 3 times a day 4 yrs ago now i cant even think about it, if i dont recover at least to get back to the gym i dont know what i am gonna do next.
Pls help me, i would appreciate any suggestions or any specialists to refer to for all this.
thanks, in advance
07-05-2007 05:16 PM
I don't know, man. I have never heard of the sides your discribing for proscar. It could be proscar; your body may have had a very bad reaction to it.
But it maybe something else entirely.
07-05-2007 05:18 PM
how many mg's were you taking?
07-05-2007 05:42 PM
1mg per day.
For like 5 weeks max
See, when i first started exercising and lifting weights i would feel somewhat better, concerning my mood at least, but sexually i would never really recover to the point i was before.
Anyways, i dont really care about reaching the initial sexual state, i mostly care about getting out of this fatigue and mess now. Icant walk, work, exercise or do anything right now, apart from surfing the net and looking for help.
I know i might have trained a bit more this yr but this hormonal imbalance is very mysterious. I just want some insight whether its common for an overtrained individual to feel so crap for so long or has that finasteride somewhat interfered with my athletic physiology.
07-05-2007 06:04 PM
my dad just started taking this ****, despite my pleading. the stuff is poison.
if i were you id buy some supplemental aromatase inhibitors to try and reoptimiz your testosterone/e2 ratio and bring down SHBG a bit. what you really need is a classic post cycle therapy but youre body is probably already stuck in the hormonal loop you put yourself in with proscar use.
try these, just type them into google-
6-oxo (please do not use an ATD product, things are twitchy as hell)
for the 6-oxo just buy enough to cruise at 200mgs (two pills a day, take at night before bed) for about a month. see where that gets you.
07-05-2007 06:21 PM
wow, how old are you? Dutasteride hurt me pretty bad, but without any alcohol in my system I could still function, if I had a 3-4 beers in me, forget about it. But Finasteride has been very kind to me otherwise,sorry to hear about your plight. You may wanna let the hair go my friend.
07-06-2007 05:21 AM
I know, each time i had a sip of alcohol it screwed me up as well, since the day i took fin.
My current age is 28 by the way.
Any alcohol makes me feel im still taking the drug. Intensifies its effects.
Not that now, 4 yrs after i quit the drug i feel any better though. I still have similar side effects like i had when i was on the drug. The only thing that changes on and off is the sensitivity of my genitals. Some times i feel i have a penis and testicles and some times i dont feel my penis at all, or my testicles. They feel like any other member of my body, like my hands or feet. Imagine how hard it is for me to get an erection, its like rubbing your hands or your feet together and waiting for your penis to grow. Exact feeling really. I guess somethings wrong with my neural receptors down there. Nevertheless there are some times, like once in a month i still get excited.
Exercise helped me recover this lost feeling to a certrain point but i think i have overdone it this yr. Especially after i discovered the potentials of squats. Its unexplainable though being in such an overtrained state for so long.
Regarding my hair, they use to fall off like hell before fin use. Finasteride really slowed down this process. The itching went away. The really funny thing is that all this time i have been of the drug my hair still dont fall off! How can this happen really? Im not taking anything for my hair right now.
As for the aromatase inhibitors they are at prime thought, along with zinc, l-arginine and i might try tribulus as well, but latest tests showed i have very low shbg. So i guess i will wait some time and get retested. Apart from that im waiting for my liver enzymes to fall within normal range, SGPT has been way over range since february. Has anyone had sgpt levels so high before? And what did that feel like?
07-06-2007 04:08 PM
You need to see an endocrinologist.
07-06-2007 04:45 PM
an endo probably gave it to him in the first place....
07-06-2007 08:47 PM
fin is not worse than roids, just take .5mg its suppose to be effective at .25mg. you seem to me like a hypochondriac, proscar/fin has been around since like 1991 for prostate cancer and those people took 5mg. did you take the original stuff, you are in greece maybe you have so counterfeit stuff?? or maybe it has really f-d you up so stop, it's definitely something else but your using that as a scape goat.
07-07-2007 05:03 AM
I think Fin has been around since 1998 in hairloss drugs and was approved from FDA apprxmatly at that time. Anyways i bought it from England, not from Greece. In Greece they dont yet use it openly, thats why they dont have any evaluation about it either positive or negative. They said they would approve of the drug in 2000 but since then nothing was heard. I doubt they will bring it here quite soon, our governement is a bit ambiguous with hair loss drugs.
Anyways, you must know that when referring to the drug designed to fight prostate cancer, its not meant to be given to 20 year old kids, and if you take into account the hormonal arrays of a 55-60 yr old +, they have nothing to do with someone of my age.
It is inevitable thus, that proscar will have different if any side effects on older people than compared to young ones even if they receive exact the same doses.
Yet, there have been extensive reports of people suffering from sides, but you know at the age of 60+ it is rather odd for those patients to mention any sexual side effects. If you have hypertension, possible heart disease, increased blood sugars, high cholesterol and other health issues, taking a drug that affects you sexually somehow is the least noticeable problem.
Let alone, some of them may think sexual sides are due to their age and sometimes are too shy to mention them.
Nevertheless, symptoms like sweaty palms and panic attacks as well as unexplained fatigue and foginess have been reported amongst proscar users.
As for this statement "fin is not worse than roids" you must be very serious about claiming something like that. I have close friends that take steroids on and off and always find a way to fight any sides, yet none of the people i know which took finasteride to combat hair loss and were sexually affected said to recover to the initial state or at least to a satisfying sexual function. This has to do, in my opinion to the low research done regarding
Now, regarding my problem i know i have been so much into working out and bicycling and playing basketball. I dont question my problems regarding to finasteride, i question that the chance of a quicker recovery has interfered with fin hormonal side effects. Since the day i took it and that was when i was 24 i know i have had serious hormonal problems, i have had 50 blood tests since then and have recorded the whole course.
Nevertheless, this time my hormones T and Free T have been sunked completely below the lowest normal ranges(they do that in all cases of overtraining as well) and estradiol is getting higher and higher it was 5.9 at one point 2 yrs ago went to 10.2 last yr and this yr it has been going up to 38. I think, its just a thought, since few doctors have evaluated that, that my weakness, apathy, low motivation and drive, are a complication of low blood testo and free testo. Some others say its not due to that
By the way, I m not saying in any way that each person that takes fin develops problems. I know many people have been on it for yrs without noticeable sides, but yet each indivividual is quite different, and this is certain.
Here are some links about overtraining by the way
FIT - News & Events
DietNet - Overtraining
Bodybuilding.com - Tammy Thomas - What You Don't Know About Overtraining - Part 1!
John Berardi - Overtraining - Part 1
07-09-2007 02:52 AM
i seriously doubt you are overtraining unless you are spending HOURS in the gym doing multiple drop sets and supersets on the same muscle group. this sounds like classic finasteride to me.
just to clarify, how exactly would you like us to help you?
07-09-2007 11:17 AM
Thanks for you replys first of all.
I have been overtrained for sure, this exhaustion, fatigue, the dead legs feeling, the heart arrythmias and breathing problems, the retrosternal heartburn, nausea, weakness and bad mood, didnt just pop out of the blue. I was training hard for sure, with very little rest and engaged in stresfull practise (like plyometrics and squating) as well as working understresfull conditions.
All I needed in here is to talk to people with knowledge about overtraining. If they had previous personal experience or knew ways and nutrition to deal with it.
I have been doing better lately with swimming, at least i can stand on my feet and not get tired immediately, but still i feel very very weak and without any energy at all. Im thinking of talking to a diet specialist, maybe try some powerfull vitamins/herbs to see what happens better, since i cant rely just on casual food and rest.
About finasteride i dont know what to say, i might try some new treatment in the nearby future, i have several things to consider. The only thing thats hasnt cleared out in my mind yet, is whether it has something to do with my prolonged recovery period from overtraining. I wonder how would i feel right now if my hormones (testo and free) looked a bit better or were in the upper third of their normal range rather than at the bottom.
03-07-2009 12:30 PM
solonjk, Hey how are you going now? Any good news?
07-19-2011 05:56 PM
you can find his posts on popeciahelp.com to see how he is doing
summary: after years of TRT, etc and no improvement, he finally came to the conclusion that propecia/finasteride cause prostatis. he went a dr in greece who actually knows how to treat prostatis (seriously Drs these days do not know how to treat it) and seems to have recovered pretty well
07-19-2011 11:42 PM
I'm really sorry that you experienced these kind of symptoms and life changing effects over 5 weeks of use, man. I've been on finasteride (1.25mg daily) for a long time now and haven't had any real libido issues (that I know of), and I hope I don't.
I don't really have anything to contribute to the thread... But, that sucks man.
edit: holy **** just realised this was from 2007.
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