should i consider pregnenolone?

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    should i consider pregnenolone?


    never posted on this subforum, but it seems like an active and informed one. anyway...

    my stats:
    > 28 y/o, 6'6" 245lbs, 12% BF
    > avid steroid user, been off for 3 months, planning to get back on soon. just came off a rather long run of 100mcg/day T4.
    > classic lowish testosterone: little facial and body hair until mid-20s, unimpressive natural sex drive...T is probably not TOO bad, as i can function sexually OK, my genitals are normal, and i was able to build muscle without much difficulty pre-steroids.
    > body comp: meso. able to gain and lose fat or muscle easily. (implies that my thyroid is not totally screwed, i think)
    > energy: terrible. sleepy every day after work.
    > mood: not great. been worse recently, but nowhere near the level it was just 5 years ago. workaday routine contributes, but does not entirely explain it.
    > stress: average. i am cucumber-cool in response to stressors, but i do have a background anxiety.
    > TOTAL CHOLESTEROL: 123. has been low for years. i think this may be the root of some of my problems.

    now, one is inclined to think i am still recovering from the T4 run...which is likely. but there appears to be something else going on too. I KNOW, i need a endo panel with free T3 and T4 and free test and all that, but it's probably not going to happen any time soon.

    do i sound like a good candidate for pregnenolone? what can i expect? all advice appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    never posted on this subforum, but it seems like an active and informed one. anyway...

    my stats:
    > 28 y/o, 6'6" 245lbs, 12% BF
    > avid steroid user, been off for 3 months, planning to get back on soon. just came off a rather long run of 100mcg/day T4.
    > classic lowish testosterone: little facial and body hair until mid-20s, unimpressive natural sex drive...T is probably not TOO bad, as i can function sexually OK, my genitals are normal, and i was able to build muscle without much difficulty pre-steroids.
    > body comp: meso. able to gain and lose fat or muscle easily. (implies that my thyroid is not totally screwed, i think)
    > energy: terrible. sleepy every day after work.
    > mood: not great. been worse recently, but nowhere near the level it was just 5 years ago. workaday routine contributes, but does not entirely explain it.
    > stress: average. i am cucumber-cool in response to stressors, but i do have a background anxiety.
    > TOTAL CHOLESTEROL: 123. has been low for years. i think this may be the root of some of my problems.

    now, one is inclined to think i am still recovering from the T4 run...which is likely. but there appears to be something else going on too. I KNOW, i need a endo panel with free T3 and T4 and free test and all that, but it's probably not going to happen any time soon.

    do i sound like a good candidate for pregnenolone? what can i expect? all advice appreciated.
    Figure out why your cholesterol is so low.
    Hardasnails have same cholesterol levels plus hi have a steroid history.
    You may learn from him.

    I have a long list for blood test.
    You may want to look at it.
    It cost $3500, but my insurance pays for it once a year.

    Endos are often of no help, except possibly in diabetis.
    Better luck with osteopaths or doctors specializing in thyroid/adrenals.

    Dr John is our guru here, you can contact him.
    But you would have to promise him to not to use steroids any longer. If you are able to make that promise and stick to your promise he is your best shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    We're not here to help steroid guys. You are purposefully screwing up your health--we aren't enablers for those activities.
    wow, not the reaction i expected. what did the bible say about judging not lest ye be judged?

    i guess when i ask for all advice, i allow myself to be condescended to by a stranger with a predisposition, who has such ill intentions that he wishes to prevent everyone from aiding a person in need.

    so, 12 weeks of, say, 500mg test enanthate, followed by a rigorous post cycle therapy and appropriate time off, done maybe twice a year, is somehow worse than advocating, say 200mg of TE forever? okay pal. my brief stay @ 1500-2000ng/dL total T as opposed to countless HRT guys @ 800-1000ng/dL on a year-round basis is grounds for unequivocal denial of advice. thanks for nothing, doc. obviously you are only protecting the status quo whereby your kind can hand out advice...well turns out most docs a person encounters have about 2 options for their patients. if a person wants to explore other creative solutions, they are suddenly on the fringe and subject to be cast out as lawbreakers and evildoers. nice.

    anyone else who would like to weigh in, please do. any more random steroid flaming - keep it to yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Figure out why your cholesterol is so low.
    Hardasnails have same cholesterol levels plus hi have a steroid history.
    You may learn from him.

    I have a long list for blood test.
    You may want to look at it.
    It cost $3500, but my insurance pays for it once a year.

    Endos are often of no help, except possibly in diabetis.
    Better luck with osteopaths or doctors specializing in thyroid/adrenals.
    diet is high in red meat, protein and fiber. not alot of veggies. all low-GI carbs. not many eggs, but a few. 3g fish oil daily.

    i have had symptoms of low T basically forever, so this may be one of those cases where it ISNT diet-induced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    We're not here to help steroid guys. You are purposefully screwing up your health--we aren't enablers for those activities.
    I have been on TRT not steroids ..past history yes before I even touched them as a teenager I had cholesterol of 140 so it may be a genetic things more so then any thing. i think alot has to do with fiber you consume as well as your inuslin levels high insulin levels = high cholesterolk, high triglycerides, high LDL. So lack of or faulty insuin receptors could be at fought here. my semi high shbg is not e2 related but most liekly insulin related because I keep a very very strict diet and always have for over 15 years of low glycemic carbs and moderate protein and never cheated since being sick for past 3-4 years..

    THings that causes low cholesterol
    fat malabsorption
    low managnese
    adrenal dysfucntion
    lack of insulin
    possible lack of estrogen which is shown to increase cholesterol

    Given the fact I have low choelsterol and low thyroid pregenlone cream may be a god sent

    right now
    45 mgs every 3rd day cyp (PRESCRIPTED NOT UG)
    1/4 armour and 1/2 t3 BID
    50 mgs pregenlone cream topical will increase after 2-3 weeks
    25 mgs DHEA
    20 mgs cortef..
    Doctorr dropped hcg because of fact of high estrogen and also want to see what body can do on pregenolone and start building things ground up correctly instead of half assed. Like previous drs before. We are examining estogen metabolism via urine test and doing every thing rigth way this time..way it is suppiose to be done. after T levels are stable then hcg is added in this way we know where my estrogen levels are and can adjust things from there if need be..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I have been on TRT not steroids ..past history yes before I even touched them as a teenager I had cholesterol of 140 so it may be a genetic things more so then any thing. i think alot has to do with fiber you consume as well as your inuslin levels high insulin levels = high cholesterolk, high triglycerides, high LDL. So lack of or faulty insuin receptors could be at fought here. my semi high shbg is not e2 related but most liekly insulin related because I keep a very very strict diet and always have for over 15 years of low glycemic carbs and moderate protein and never cheated since being sick for past 3-4 years..

    THings that causes low cholesterol
    fat malabsorption
    low managnese
    adrenal dysfucntion
    lack of insulin
    possible lack of estrogen which is shown to increase cholesterol
    thanks for the addition. glad everyone isnt of the same mind.

    my insulin is good, if blood sugar modulation is the only real marker. always come in right where i am supposed to on the finger-pricker.

    my diet is pretty outrageously high in fiber, but even before it was that way i had super-low cholesterol.

    i've done atkins previously with success (weight drops a little too quickly, and takes muscle with it, but it works)...i've also used my fair share of stimulants over the years; probably not helping my cause.

    hardasnails how long have you been on the preg? anything noticeable yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    thanks for the addition. glad everyone isnt of the same mind.

    my insulin is good, if blood sugar modulation is the only real marker. always come in right where i am supposed to on the finger-pricker.

    my diet is pretty outrageously high in fiber, but even before it was that way i had super-low cholesterol.

    i've done atkins previously with success (weight drops a little too quickly, and takes muscle with it, but it works)...i've also used my fair share of stimulants over the years; probably not helping my cause.

    hardasnails how long have you been on the preg? anything noticeable yet?
    getting ready to start soon waiting for it to come in the mail
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    > TOTAL CHOLESTEROL: 123. has been low for years. i think this may be the root of some of my problems.
    Why is 123 bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Why is 123 bad?
    no cholesterol no hormones and cell detoxification gets altered
    cholesterol makes up a good perecentage of the cell membrane that allows for things to move in anfd out of the cell.
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    Right, no cholesterol I understand. but 123 is not "no" cholesterol. From what I've understood, under 150 is considered desireable, and doctors start to treat it with prescription meds at 200.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Right, no cholesterol I understand. but 123 is not "no" cholesterol. From what I've understood, under 150 is considered desireable, and doctors start to treat it with prescription meds at 200.
    DR ARE IDIOTS FOR TELLING YOU THAT AND SHOULD HAVE LICESENSE REVOVED FOR PRESCRIBING MEDDS At 200 ..
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    That part is anecdotal, rather than me being prescibed at that. A friend is at around 220ish (down from around 260 on dietary change over a year), and his doctor was considering meds for him.

    For me, i've always had a fairly low cholesterol, with excellent ratio, even tho I was a big tub of fat (5'9.5, 245lbd), generally in the 150-170 range. Since i've lost weight, started doing body building, and eaten more high omega 3/6/9 stuff, and clipped pretty much all bad fats, mine has dropped to around 129 as of last test (i'm a blood donor, so get a serum cholesterol every donation). So whats a too low cholesterol? And what would be a good level that reduces heart disease risk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    That part is anecdotal, rather than me being prescibed at that. A friend is at around 220ish (down from around 260 on dietary change over a year), and his doctor was considering meds for him.

    For me, i've always had a fairly low cholesterol, with excellent ratio, even tho I was a big tub of fat (5'9.5, 245lbd), generally in the 150-170 range. Since i've lost weight, started doing body building, and eaten more high omega 3/6/9 stuff, and clipped pretty much all bad fats, mine has dropped to around 129 as of last test (i'm a blood donor, so get a serum cholesterol every donation). So whats a too low cholesterol? And what would be a good level that reduces heart disease risk?
    under 140-150 you may run into homronal problems to to lack of raw building blocks, I also started taking fish oils, hempseed EFAS protein, which could also be responsible for this as well.. saturated fats raises cholesterol plus it also protects you from Heart attachs by lowering lipoprotein A which is none for causing strokes if elevated..
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    So in the 150s would be good then? I should be able to take in enough red meat fats to hit that Its hard to get everything all optimized dietarily. Maybe i'll add a few pieces of bacon in a week, and give up on canola based mayo. I'll be donating again end of july so i'll see whats happening then
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same_Old
    never posted on this subforum, but it seems like an active and informed one.
    At first, this had me scratching my head . But then I saw what Dr. John had written:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I am moving this to the anabolic steroids Section. Consider yourself lucky you are still on this Board.
    And for a second there, I was thinking, "Has Same Old gone off his rocker?"
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    update: i love all forum mods, i agree with everything my doctor tells me, and the tooth fairy visited me last night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    update: i love all forum mods, i agree with everything my doctor tells me, and the tooth fairy visited me last night.
    and I still don't know why a cholesterol of under 130 is bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    and I still don't know why a cholesterol of under 130 is bad
    it sounds like hardasnails subscribes to the recently published theory (not study) about it, although i dont believe it's been backed up with much science....still, it's interesting to consider.
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    yeah, it seems like wild theory tho. Although for me, it won't be hard to bring it up a little to hit the 150 mark, i dont want to go higher than that really. no point in raising artherosclerosis risk just to maybe get some hormonal benefit. It shouldn't take much for me to raise it 20 points, seeing as how hard people have to work to get it down

    I still think he's a **** tho for not responding to my question as i'm still a virgin hormone wise (although i'm considering it)
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    yeah, it seems like wild theory tho. Although for me, it won't be hard to bring it up a little to hit the 150 mark, i dont want to go higher than that really. no point in raising artherosclerosis risk just to maybe get some hormonal benefit. It shouldn't take much for me to raise it 20 points, seeing as how hard people have to work to get it down

    I still think he's a **** tho for not responding to my question as i'm still a virgin hormone wise (although i'm considering it)
    a hormone virgin? LOL...

    i have been going over this low-cholesterol = low hormone theory in my head the last 2 days...seems to me, i'd rather keep my actual blood cholesterol low (to not increase cardiac risk) and supplement with the substrate needed for hormone production. pregnenolone, being the very next step down from cholesterol, but (to my knowledge) not having any negative cardiac effects, seems like an obvious choice...you get all the positives - low cholesterol for a healthy heart and veins, plus plenty of material for making all the hormones you need, with none of the negatives.

    anybody see a flaw in this logic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    It's time for you to act like a gentleman.

    This message should suffice.
    why dont you let the vile, self-destructive, detestable, and not-worthy-of-assistance steroid users that moderate THIS forum do their jobs? BTW - you are more than welcome to debate my previous arguments, maybe support your assertion....but continuing to bully me into not standing against your attempts to control the board and its members is not exactly gentlemanly either is it?



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