Disappointed, any ideas?

[The G Train]

Hey everyone, I'm on my 3rd week of PCT for a Methyl E and Propadrol Stack of 4 weeks. I ran the propadrol at 60mgs for the entire cycle and the Methyl E at 20mg the first two weeks and then 30mgs the last two weeks. The only things I noticed were increased pumps, and a little leaning. Absolutely no strength gains. I train heavy, 6-8 reps, warmups, multijoint before single joint exercises, you name it. My diet was great too, minimum 150grams of complete protein, i dont count incomplete, plenty of water, complex carbs - I got it down.

What I'm trying to say is, I want known substances that'll work. I don't plan on running anything until winter though, I just wanted to share my experience and get some opinions. Thanks in advance.

 

[bombBoogie]

I tried Havoc and Prop and gained a decent amount. Sorry to hear that you gotten different results.

Proven substances would be Sdrol, Hdrol, Phera the list goes on. Also it depends on the company you are planning to purchase from. Just look around for the logs on different supps.

 

[The G Train]

Thanks, right now I'm Considering Epistane and 3ad, with the Epi dosed higher.

 

[friction515]

is methyl-e just an epi-sulfide product like the havoc/epistane?

 

[bombBoogie]

Thanks, right now I'm Considering Epistane and 3ad, with the Epi dosed higher.

How high have you considered going? Cause I got killer back pumps when I pushed to 50/60. It may be different for you but just wanna let you know.

 

[UnrealMachine]

is methyl-e just an epi-sulfide product like the havoc/epistane?

yes its a clone

 

[The G Train]

Methyl E is supposed to an Epi/Havoc Clone, and I'm considering 30/40/40/40.

 

[The G Train]

Hmm, I was thinking Methyl E was just an inferior compound in comparison to Epi/Havoc, but yeah maybe I just didn't respond to it.

 

[jomi822]

150 grams of protein a day is nowhere near enough. to make any cycle worth it whatsoever youre going to need at least twice that.

 

[The G Train]

It was 150 grams of complete protein, I didn't add incomplete protein so total protein would've been higher. I also believe in the rule of 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight, anything above that would be excreted or stored as fat. So at 200lbs I only need 136grams, but I keep it at 150 for safety sake.

 

[jomi822]

alright well the reason you are disappointed in your gains is because you only took in 150 grams of protein. at your weight 300 would have been perfect.

ask any bodybuilder if that whole "more protein just equals fat" BS is true.

 

[PumpingIron]

Yea...1.5g/pound...or more.

Not...1.5g/kilo...

At 200lbs, you should be taking in over 3500cals, as well.

 

[The G Train]

I don't count calories, just macros. Even if I wasn't taking in enough protein for growth, I still shouldve experienced some strength increases.

 

[PumpingIron]

I don't count calories, just macros. Even if I wasn't taking in enough protein for growth, I still shouldve experienced some strength increases.

I didn't love my time with Havoc either, I saw some strength increases but not quite what other saw, and no real size increase.

So maybe you'd want to move away from the Estroidal's...

...And if you count macros, you can figure out calories...

 

[bLacKjAck.]

I don't count calories, just macros. Even if I wasn't taking in enough protein for growth, I still shouldve experienced some strength increases.

Without sufficient protein, not really. But hey, at 150g you ARE besting the FDA standards.

 

[jerz912]

Hey everyone, I'm on my 3rd week of post cycle therapy for a Methyl E and Propadrol Stack of 4 weeks. I ran the propadrol at 60mgs for the entire cycle and the Methyl E at 20mg the first two weeks and then 30mgs the last two weeks. The only things I noticed were increased pumps, and a little leaning. Absolutely no strength gains. I train heavy, 6-8 reps, warmups, multijoint before single joint exercises, you name it. My diet was great too, minimum 150grams of complete protein, i dont count incomplete, plenty of water, complex carbs - I got it down.

What I'm trying to say is, I want known substances that'll work. I don't plan on running anything until winter though, I just wanted to share my experience and get some opinions. Thanks in advance.

Dude I ran Methyl E to and I also did not see any gains what so ever!! Also another guy on here had the same problem, so thats 3 people that I know of not seeing results from Methyl E!!!!

 

[The G Train]

Thank you, I knew it had to be the compound.

 

[PumpingIron]

Thank you, I knew it had to be the compound.

ofcourse...it couldn't be diet or training...no way...

 

[The G Train]

My diet and training are always sufficient to me in terms of gains, I just expected more when taking 2 different orals.

 

[PumpingIron]

Okay...I believe ya.

Lets see em...there are such a thing as plateaus...

I'm not trying to be a d*ck here, I'm jsut saying it might not have been the product...

 

[The G Train]

I think the Propadrol worked somewhat in the fact that I did lose some bodyfat, maybe because I train heavy all the time limits my strength increases?

 

[jerz912]

I think the Propadrol worked somewhat in the fact that I did lose some bodyfat, maybe because I train heavy all the time limits my strength increases?

I geuss you mean bulking all the time? Yes that will limit strength gains because you will eventually hit a plateau, if you haven't already! I try to do 2 months bulking and 2 months cutting! You have to switch it up because your body gets used to it, so you shock your muscles!

 

[The G Train]

I did a 75lb cut 4 years ago and I will never let myself gain too much fat so i guess I just lean bulk all the time.

 

[jerz912]

I did a 75lb cut 4 years ago and I will never let myself gain too much fat so i guess I just lean bulk all the time.

Damn a 75lb cut, thats alot! Do you feel like your at a plateau now? If you are you have to do different exercises to shock your muscles, or start cutting, or take something that actually works! I know how you feel man I was all excited to take methyl e when I read all of this good feedback on here about havoc and epistane, but I was also dissapointed in the end!

 

[The G Train]

I do the same exercises for about 3-4 weeks, gain some strength on them and then switch it up. I always come back stronger to each exercise.

 

[UNCfan1]

That sucks Thread starter. U say complete protein, does that mean u don't count the proteins found in beans and what not?

From what I have read Epi/Havoc/Methyl-E/Epi-Max the sweet spot is around 40mg. But the added Prop should have yeilded something. I know when I stacked Hemadrol/Propadrol I saw some great strength gains.

I agree with others u should be eating 3500 or more cals a day.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I feel for you, i ran Halodrol 50 on a recomp and got the same results, a little leaning, hardness, nothing else at all - strength almost went down (@ recomp calories my strength barely holds and H50 made no difference). It was about the same leaning as a recomp usually gives me.

Everytime someone has bad results everybody says "your diet and training suck"
But these people have been training for years, they know their diet and training and they know their rate of progress. If they run a steroid and the rate of progress doesn't change, it sounds like a bad response to the compound.

 

[The G Train]

I ran the Methyl E a little lower because I wanted to take it easy stacking the two, and I figured The other compound would compensate. I am however having an excellent post cycle, so I may just run NHA type stacks from now on.

 

[jomi822]

I feel for you, i ran Halodrol 50 on a recomp and got the same results, a little leaning, hardness, nothing else at all - strength almost went down (@ recomp calories my strength barely holds and H50 made no difference). It was about the same leaning as a recomp usually gives me.

Everytime someone has bad results everybody says "your diet and training suck"
But these people have been training for years, they know their diet and training and they know their rate of progress. If they run a steroid and the rate of progress doesn't change, it sounds like a bad response to the compound.

he took in 150 grams of protein....that is a diet deficiency when looked at in terms of steroid cycling. this is one of the cases where diet was the cause

 

[EctoPower]

I think the Propadrol worked somewhat in the fact that I did lose some bodyfat, maybe because I train heavy all the time limits my strength increases?

This is a pretty dumb statement. How could lifting heavy limit your strength increases? How else would you increase strength, by lifting light? :wtf: That said, you might want to see if you were perhaps over-training, which is a different issue.

Anyway, from what I've read, Propadrol is at best a clean bulk compound, but really seen more as a cutter. That combined with insufficient calories would certainly limit your mass gains. However, I do think you should have at least maintained strength, as that's one of the first things people report about Propadrol, is the increase in strength. Next cycle, try increasing your calories if you want mass. I agree with P.I. that you should be eating over 3500 per day if you're 200 pounds. Good luck.

 

[The G Train]

I know what youre saying, i train heavy all the time to make consistent strength gains along with size, but people got me wondering if maybe i hit a plateau, though I dont think i was overtraining - 5 days a week, 1-2 muscle regions per workout, 45 min workouts tops, and minimum 8 hours of sleep.

I've read that 17alkylated steroids should increase muscle creatine stores, and I wasnt using creatine before the cycle, so I think I shouldve felt some strength increases.

 

[EctoPower]

I know what youre saying, i train heavy all the time to make consistent strength gains along with size, but people got me wondering if maybe i hit a plateau, though I dont think i was overtraining - 5 days a week, 1-2 muscle regions per workout, 45 min workouts tops, and minimum 8 hours of sleep.

I've read that 17alkylated steroids should increase muscle creatine stores, and I wasnt using creatine before the cycle, so I think I shouldve felt some strength increases.

Do you ever take time off? Every 8-10 weeks I take 1 week completely off and recover. I always start the next round of 8-10 weeks rejuvenated and ready to rock. And I don't really hit strength plateaus. Just a thought.

 

[The G Train]

I am due for a week off, that's true, it's been about 3 months since my last break.

 

[EctoPower]

I am due for a week off, that's true, it's been about 3 months since my last break.

Dude, 3 freaking months? If you're done with PCT, take a week and do nothing. No lifting, no cardio. Nothing. Just recover. Maintain a clean diet (I still say you need more calories), but just rest for 1 week. See how you feel when you start up again. And maybe try starting a different workout. It could be something as minor as switching up which days you work a muscle group, but sometimes that helps.

Just my opinion, but you're not going to lose any muscle in a week, so it's worth a try.

 

[UnrealMachine]

sh1t i've only missed 2 days in the last 8 months, no weeks off

I think you didn't respond well to the compound. Instead of going at it again with higher doses, which for you may only lead to greater toxicity and sides, try something else next time. And increase the food intake

 

[jerz912]

he took in 150 grams of protein....that is a diet deficiency when looked at in terms of steroid cycling. this is one of the cases where diet was the cause

Yeah but even tho he was only taking in 150 grams, if this compound was effective don't you think at least a little something would of happened? It's not like he wasn't taken in any protein at all!

 

[SteelEntity]

As already mentioned taking in 150g daily is asking for ****ty results. Your body requires that much to simply function, now add the juice and the fact you are training hard = major protein defficiency. Try 300g ED .. I dont know your stats but I am assuming you are over 150lbs.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Your body requires that much to simply function

I understand your post and agree he should eat way more
But that quoted line is pure bullsh1t bro most people i know eat abt 80g a day, now i don't think you meant this literally so don't say it literally.

 

[04dodgeguy]

I have never even ran a cycle i'm actually researching them here and i take more then 150 g of protein and i'm also 200 lb's 14.3%bf and i take in 250 to 300 G per day

 

[slow-mun]

Dude I ran Methyl E to and I also did not see any gains what so ever!! Also another guy on here had the same problem, so thats 3 people that I know of not seeing results from Methyl E!!!!

I wouldn't necessarily point out the particular brand. Honestly the results are similar to Havoc and Epistane according to feedback. I've ran both Epistane and Methyl E and the results are identical. Anyhow, there's no convincing you, so I won't bother. If we release our next compound soon, I want you as a tester. If you don't want to, then that's fine, but I want your feedback.

 

[slow-mun]

ofcourse...it couldn't be diet or training...no way...

LOL, yeah I'm the same way.

 

[SteelEntity]

Yeah I don't mean you literally CAN'T function on less then 150g protien/day .. what I was trying to get across was 150 simply won't cut it. You are not the average joe, you are working out hard and on juice... so 150 simply would not suffice for your goals. Building muscles requires a caloric surplus, and if you are not taking bcaa's you should start.

 

[EctoPower]

150 is definitely far from what the average person needs daily...its more like half that (75 g/day)..and a majority of people don't even get that..An average fit person who works out needs around 115 gram/day..

G train, how much do you weigh? like others said 1.5-2 grams of protein per lb of body weight. This is not necessary EVERY day but get it as much as you can. And, if you train right, time off really isn't necessary. The truth is, the people who take a week off and them come back "totally refreshed and stronger" and all this other bs is because they are overtraining and their bodies arn't getting the time sufficient to heal and grow. I recently had to take a week off due to an injury and when I got back in the gym I wasn't "refreshed" or "stronger" or any better than I was before the break. That is due to good training. Limit the amount of sets that you do, 6-8 sets per group. Go for reps or go for heavy weight, find out what works for you. Seems like your problem is in your training, not the compound.

I disagree with your comments about training. It's possible you're just not training hard enough, if your body never feels like it needs a rest. I do 6-8 sets per body part and 4-6 reps per set. My total time in the gym for each workout is 45-50 minutes and I hit each body part once per week. That's 7 days of rest for each body part. If that's overtraining, then I'd love to know what your idea of a good schedule is.

The reason I need a break after 8-10 weeks is because I lift heavy as f*ck. I'm pushing and pulling the absolute maximum amount of weight I can do 4-6 reps of every single set and each week I try to push beyond that. The week off is as much for mental recovery as anything too.

I say if you don't feel like you need a rest every now and then, you're either taking something that allows you to artificially push through it, or you're just not pushing yourself in the gym. If you're naturally pushing up towards your genetic potential, your body and mind need an occassional break.

I also call BS on your "injury" time off. If you were really injured, I doubt you would only need a week off. :duel:

 

[EctoPower]

How are you going to sit there and tell me that I wasn't injured? I made reference to my injury a number of times in different threads if you would like to look it up asswhipe.

I love how you just make all these assumptions about me like you know who I am. My post was from my own personal experience thus far with weight lifting and training. And yes, I used to push myself to the max before my injury. That, however, is not the best way to train and ends up in injury with time. It is better to train with lower weights that you can control and utilize slow, smooth movements with strict form. If you want to argue this with me you will find it to be an uphill battle as this is a proven fact. You want to act like a tough guy? I can't even push myself to the max anymore because I max out most of the machines and my DB bench sets are 20 lbs over the max dumbbells that are at my gym.

Everyone is different, I guess the best way to put it is that my body has better genetics than yours. A week off is good for getting away from the gym, yes, but not for "recovery" from a workout routine.

I would even suggest to do less sets per muscle group 4-6.

Ecto- Fvck off. thanks.

Lifting with light weights is "proven" to be better? By who? Show me this proof. I dare you. So all those guys out there pushing up as much weight as they can are doing it wrong? Ronnie Coleman should be DB benching 200 instead of 400 then?

I will say this, you're right about genetics. Everyone is certainly different and your max maybe way higher than my max. But intensity levels are relative and my point is that lifting weights at less than maximum intensity is a waste of time, unless you're injured or recovering from injury. The most efficient way to build muscle is to lift heavy weights in short, intense workouts. This actually has been proven by the guys who developed Max OT training. It's not that you can't build muscle using lower weights, it is just far less efficient to do it that way.

Anyway, I've never gotten an injury in the gym while lifting heavy because I warm up properly, use natural form (NOT STRICT), and get max recovery.

I was simply responding to your attack on my post and didn't mean to get your panties in such a bunch. We've probably jacked this thread enough, so PM me if you want to get into it further.

 

[The G Train]

I lost my internet connection for over 2 days. I really don't believe it's my training, but it could be. I still stick by the 1.5grams of protein per kg of bodyweight, but after researching I found that the upper limits that were researched had the subjects at 1.7grams per kg. So a 200lb male would need around 155grams. Don't know about other people but i'd rather not stress my kidneys every day and lose bone mass because of a ridiculously high protein diet. I really dont care who came up with the 1-1.5grams per pound rule, theyre not the governing body on exercise prescription/nutrition/disease prevent like the ACSM is. On another note I just passed my ACSM personal training certification exam.

 

[UNCfan1]

I lost my internet connection for over 2 days. I really don't believe it's my training, but it could be. I still stick by the 1.5grams of protein per kg of bodyweight, but after researching I found that the upper limits that were researched had the subjects at 1.7grams per kg. So a 200lb male would need around 155grams. Don't know about other people but i'd rather not stress my kidneys every day and lose bone mass because of a ridiculously high protein diet. I really dont care who came up with the 1-1.5grams per pound rule, theyre not the governing body on exercise prescription/nutrition/disease prevent like the ACSM is. On another note I just passed my ACSM personal training certification exam.

I thought it was a myth that alot of protein caused those problems. If u have studies and other proof please post them.

 

[charger71]

everyone can flame me, but protein is a myth...somewhat. ive done ph cycles with 300-400 grams of protein and cycles with about 150g of protein and got the same strength and size gains with the same ph. only difference was with 300-400 grams i gained fat really fast. i guess everybody is different, but i know for a fact that i dont need 300+ grams of protein to grow, i only need that much to get fat!

oh yes and the same goes for my regular training with no help from a pro-hormone. i dont doubt that some people respond very well to tons of protein, im just not one of them.

 

[UNCfan1]

everyone can flame me, but protein is a myth...somewhat. ive done ph cycles with 300-400 grams of protein and cycles with about 150g of protein and got the same strength and size gains with the same ph. only difference was with 300-400 grams i gained fat really fast. i guess everybody is different, but i know for a fact that i dont need 300+ grams of protein to grow, i only need that much to get fat!

oh yes and the same goes for my regular training with no help from a pro-hormone. i dont doubt that some people respond very well to tons of protein, im just not one of them.

I agree that its a myth. I was just wanting to see what he would say.

 

[UNCfan1]

I was also under the impression short intense workouts trigger most muscle response but Tom185 brought it up that for bulking you should give your body a min of 3 min between sets. He says he is a certified personal trainer. I still believe that you have to find what works for your body. What I do works for me, what you do works for you. We can argue this point til we are blue.

I believe u can still make huge gains with less rest than that. Just depends on ur body. I for one can lift pretty heavy weights with 30-60sec rest between sets. If I were to rest that long I feel weaker on the next set. If I rest my normal 30sec or so I am good to go. Weird.

 

[mmowry]

IMHO like many have said macros and overall kcals were wrong also if you wanted to know if it was anabolic enough to build muscle (if properly fueled that is) did your testicles tighten up and shrink?